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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Your ignorance is ridiculous..

    MD is a senior investment banker - they are NOT the CEOs of the companies they work for

    Likewise VPs are middle-ranked investment bankers.

    Then you have associates and analysts - how did you not know this? You should at least READ up about the field you are talking about if you want to be taken seriously. I shouldn't be explaining this to you at all.

    No one gets called an 'investment banker', as their job title. No one.

    Yes, in 5 years.. Bankers get paid in salary+bonuses (bonuses are not optional, everyone recieves one), these bonuses dwarf the base salary the higher you get in rank.

    Please, go use Google and do some research before you continue to spout such absolute nonsense.
    hi, how realistic is my thought of starting an engineering firm and making it profitable in the defense sector in the near future? sorry if stupid question but you seem to have a lot of knowledge on these things.
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    (Original post by Europhile)
    In comparison to working for someone else it is.
    Only if your company bring in revenue and makes a profit.

    People think running a business is easy. But the reality is you need a USP, the ability to take the financial risk and a bit of luck (as well as a lot of hard work), to get rich from it.

    Most people who have successful companies have worked in industry and built up their expertise before launching.


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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    MD is a senior investment banker - they are NOT the CEOs of the companies they work for
    No. A Managing Director is the leader of an organisation. You clearly haven't got a clue about business. A CEO is responsible for a strategic outline and is not involved in the day to day affairs of the company. That is the MD's responsibility. The only people a MD has to answer to is a Board of Directors, depending on the structure of the company.
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    (Original post by Europhile)
    You have no clue what you're on about. After years of experience - then you say £150k within 5 years. Do you understand how plurals are formed? So I was right then. Thanks for validating my claim.

    On top of that, a MD is not strictly an IB anymore. They're a MD running things and thus its a different job entirely and would go down as a different job title on paper so no, those with the job title of IB very rarely make that sort of money and those that do usually own their own firms. No MD is going to call themselves an IB. They'll go by the title of MD of 'x' firm.

    All you've done is validate my claim that running your own business is the surefire way to getting rich whereas working for others, in most cases, isn't. Those who get rich working for others are the exception, not the norm.
    I was slightly pissed off at your reply but I've calmed down a bit now.

    Titles in investment banks are inflated and don't mean what they actually portray. Vice President is another word for middle-managing banker and an MD is a senior banker. You can have 'global MDs' or 'Head ofs' who are certainly on the same level as VPs in the traditional sense.

    As for their remuneration, junior bankers are split into 'buckets' of performance and these bucket positions then determine how much of a bonus they will get. Even the lowest ranked juniors are eligible for a decent bonus - think 30% of their base salary.

    As you get more senior, your bonus is tied to the amount of money you bring in from deals and how well the department does. MDs (usually people with 10+ years experience) are thus compensated very highly.

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    I have heard said (not in person, but through close family) by some of the very richest people around that they now act solely upon the maxim "Money is not everything".

    Money is just a means to an end; you need to know what that end is before you acquire the means. To this one might say, "When I'm rich I'll live a super-extravagant lifestyle and all of my problems will be over", and I will reply that living that way makes you no better than a pig eating out of a bottomless trough. I will not be happy with my life unless I have done something more meaningful than simply acquiring the means to gorge myself on material goods.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Only if your company bring in revenue and makes a profit.
    Yes, but that's no different to a company you might be working for going bust or laying people off.

    People think running a business is easy.
    Because it is if you've got your head screwed on and really want it. I've ran my own business successfully in the past and being in control is paramount. I will be running my own business again in the near future because I simply refuse to work all hours of the day to line somebody elses pocket when I could be lining my own.
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    (Original post by Ifailedumad)
    have you thought about applying to the blackwater/mexican cartel graduate scheme?
    have you thought about the black FBI helicopters that will swarm your house in 5 minutes?
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    (Original post by Gozem)
    have you thought about the black FBI helicopters that will swarm your house in 5 minutes?
    thats racist.
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    (Original post by Europhile)
    Yes, but that's no different to a company you might be working for going bust or laying people off.


    Because it is if you've got your head screwed on and really want it. I've ran my own business successfully in the past and being in control is paramount. I will be running my own business again in the near future because I simply refuse to work all hours of the day to line somebody elses pocket when I could be lining my own.
    It isn't just about having your head screwed on. There are plenty of people who have that but aren't able to run a business. Why do you think so many people and businesses fail?

    And it isn't just like being employed. You are protected by certain laws as an employee and you have a guaranteed salary each month. As a business owner you don't have that guarantee and you have much higher risks.


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    (Original post by Europhile)
    For some funny reason I highly doubt that. Even with years of experience IB's earn around £150k and you have to work your way up to that from around £40k. That isn't that much in reality. The reality is you'll be slaving away for someone else all day and night so they can get richer and richer. Sorry, but there's no chance you're going to be richer than myself by working for someone else. On top of that you'll have a mortgage to pay off whereas I won't have a mortgage as I already own assets.
    just lol @ ur posts. Go get jel some more.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    x
    A MD and a CEO are roughly on the same level and most use them interchangeably. In banking, it may be different and if that is the case then they're using the term incorrectly. A Managing Director isn't a senior position. It is it's own position. You are a Managing Director responsible for the day to day responsiblilities. In America they're called CEO's. In Britain they're referred to as MD's. That's just the way it is. They both answer to the Board of Directors depending upon the structure of the company.

    I know how bankers bonuses work and I don't envy them at all. They work ridiculous hours, some doing 80-100 hour weeks and quite frankly deserve them. I certainly would not work that much to line someone else's pocket and if I was in that field I'd be striving to save up as much money to set up my own firm as soon as possible. The difference is, the only real way of getting rich is to run a successful business unless you are one of the very few exceptions who proves to be indispensable to a company. These people are few and far between.

    Everyone I know who's rich and I'm talking top end 6 figures and 7 figures in terms of wealth owns their own business and are Managing Directors in the actual sense of the word. It's no shock. When you are in control of your financial assets, obligations and your stability depends on the choices you make it is your responsibility. In the banking world you may see an MD as a top end banker but they're not, they're a highly experienced banker who has now taken upon the role to manage the day to day affairs of the company. Of course you need to know your stuff and that's where experience comes because you want to make profit.
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    (Original post by Europhile)
    A MD and a CEO are roughly on the same level and most use them interchangeably. In banking, it may be different and if that is the case then they're using the term incorrectly. A Managing Director isn't a senior position. It is it's own position. You are a Managing Director responsible for the day to day responsiblilities. In America they're called CEO's. In Britain they're referred to as MD's. That's just the way it is. They both answer to the Board of Directors depending upon the structure of the company.I know how bankers bonuses work and I don't envy them at all. They work ridiculous hours, some doing 80-100 hour weeks and quite frankly deserve them. I certainly would not work that much to line someone else's pocket and if I was in that field I'd be striving to save up as much money to set up my own firm as soon as possible. The difference is, the only real way of getting rich is to run a successful business unless you are one of the very few exceptions who proves to be indispensable to a company. These people are few and far between.Everyone I know who's rich and I'm talking top end 6 figures and 7 figures in terms of wealth owns their own business and are Managing Directors in the actual sense of the word. It's no shock. When you are in control of your financial assets, obligations and your stability depends on the choices you make it is your responsibility. In the banking world you may see an MD as a top end banker but they're not, they're a highly experienced banker who has now taken upon the role to manage the day to day affairs of the company. Of course you need to know your stuff and that's where experience comes because you want to make profit.
    MD and CEO on the same level LOOOOl?????. Is this forum even educated?
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Why do you think so many people and businesses fail?
    Because a lot of people do not have a good business plan that factors in a long term strategy. Most businesses fail due to poor planning and the vast majority of them, those that receive business loans, should never have been signed off in the first place. I've seen several businesses go through and the vast majority of them have had idiots with a lack of foresight running them.

    (Original post by Abdul-Karim)
    just lol @ ur posts. Go get jel some more.
    Jealous of what? You will be working in London most likely long hours, struggling on the tube like a packed sardine whilst paying for a mortgage on a small overpriced house or apartment in London and I'll be running my own business abroad with no mortgage obligations, numerous assets and wealth you can only dream of kid. Do you only think investment bankers are rich or something? If so, that is both hilarious and adorable.
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    Civil service starting salaries can be £35k, so with 37 hour weeks with flexitime thrown in. This is a pretty great life in terms of free time, and the starting salary/promotion opportunities are pretty decent too.
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    (Original post by Europhile)
    A MD and a CEO are roughly on the same level and most use them interchangeably. In banking, it may be different and if that is the case then they're using the term incorrectly. A Managing Director isn't a senior position. It is it's own position. You are a Managing Director responsible for the day to day responsiblilities. In America they're called CEO's. In Britain they're referred to as MD's. That's just the way it is. They both answer to the Board of Directors depending upon the structure of the company.

    I know how bankers bonuses work and I don't envy them at all. They work ridiculous hours, some doing 80-100 hour weeks and quite frankly deserve them. I certainly would not work that much to line someone else's pocket and if I was in that field I'd be striving to save up as much money to set up my own firm as soon as possible. The difference is, the only real way of getting rich is to run a successful business unless you are one of the very few exceptions who proves to be indispensable to a company. These people are few and far between.

    Everyone I know who's rich and I'm talking top end 6 figures and 7 figures in terms of wealth owns their own business and are Managing Directors in the actual sense of the word. It's no shock. When you are in control of your financial assets, obligations and your stability depends on the choices you make it is your responsibility. In the banking world you may see an MD as a top end banker but they're not, they're a highly experienced banker who has now taken upon the role to manage the day to day affairs of the company. Of course you need to know your stuff and that's where experience comes because you want to make profit.
    An MD in banking is NOT an MD of the organization.

    If that were the case there would be thousands of supposed 'CEOs' at a bank - trust me I know bankers, I know how the hierarchy works, you evidently don't.

    In a lot cases, the CEO of the bank can earn less than a top earning MD in investment banking or trading.

    Please, just Google IB hierarchy maybe then you would understand.
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    (Original post by Abdul-Karim)
    MD and CEO on the same level LOOOOl?????. Is this forum even educated?
    Investment banks have quite an odd name to rank system really. In the "real world", CEOs are often called Managing Directors...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_executive_officer
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    (Original post by Abdul-Karim)
    MD and CEO on the same level LOOOOl?????. Is this forum even educated?
    Nobody said they were on the same level. You need to understand the word, 'roughly'.

    MD is British terminology.
    CEO is American terminology.

    CEO is answerable to management. The MD is answerable to the BoD's.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    An MD in banking is NOT an MD of the organization.
    So then an MD is not truly an MD. They've just given themselves that title to make themselves come across more important than they actually are. A true Managing Director is responsible for the day to day running of the organisation and only answers to the BoD's. I couldn't care less about abnormal hierarchies the banking sector has adopted in an attempt to satisfy egos. I know what an MD is, I was one for just over 2 years.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Considering 20% of business fail in the first year and its expected that another 50% won't last more than 3 years, running a business is clearly not a "sure fire" way of getting rich


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    One could also say the minority of professionals end up becoming MDs yet this is still used to compare potential earnings. I don't see owning a successful business any less likely plus the earning potential of a good business far outweighs salary. I've known very small, seemingly moderate businesses earning into the millions. So few people are even touching the quarter mill mark on a salary.

    (Original post by J-SP)
    It isn't just about having your head screwed on. There are plenty of people who have that but aren't able to run a business. Why do you think so many people and businesses fail?

    And it isn't just like being employed. You are protected by certain laws as an employee and you have a guaranteed salary each month. As a business owner you don't have that guarantee and you have much higher risks.


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    Many people also fail to break into industries like IB in the first place. If people were to look at their odds all the time it wouldn't paint a great picture. If you have that mentality then you won't succeed in much. Actually to run a good business it requires a certain type of fearlessness and ability to take risks. Business isn't really for people who want 'security' and to play it safe.
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    (Original post by Europhile)
    So then an MD is not truly an MD. They've just given themselves that title to make themselves come across more important than they actually are. A true Managing Director is responsible for the day to day running of the organisation and only answers to the BoD's. I couldn't care less about abnormal hierarchies the banking sector has adopted in an attempt to satisfy egos. I know what an MD is, I was one for just over 2 years.
    lol, so was I. That's what got me into an MIT run startup accelerator.

    Doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the semantical differences in roles between industries. Plus, your lack of understanding in the salary progression didn't help either.
 
 
 
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