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Congratulations to the Greek left! The movement against austerity.... watch

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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Of course not. And they won't, because it would open the flood gates. But this is just another facet of the the-world-owes-us-a-living mentality that seems to pervade Greek culture. It's not just the Elgin Marbles. This is a people who are simply not willing to accept a good-enough and functional settlement to an ancient problem when there is the far more attractive alternative of screaming your head off at anyone who will listen about how you should get 100% your own way and to hell with what wider consequences it could have.

    The debt crisis hasn't created these demands it has just brought them to world attention, because people briefly started paying attention to Greece.
    The example you gave was a private claim made by relatives of four of the victims.

    The most recent claim was made by the previous greek government and they were told to wind their necks in.

    Left wing governments love to play the victim card so the Greek government has done it again.
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    Looks like the movement against austerity has a new fan! I'm sure Mr Putin will be far nicer than those evil bureaucrats in Brussels. It seems like Greece PM would rather Greece be a Russian Puppet state than not spend above its means. Oh well, anythings better than the neo liberal agenda right?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...or-assets.html
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Looks like the movement against austerity has a new fan! I'm sure Mr Putin will be far nicer than those evil bureaucrats in Brussels. It seems like Greece PM would rather Greece be a Russian Puppet state than not spend above its means. Oh well, anythings better than the neo liberal agenda right?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...or-assets.html
    I think the Greeks are basically desperate.

    One interesting thing that's come out is that the IMF are charging a very high interest rate to Greece and have so far made nearly 3bn Euros profit from Greek suffering! You really couldn't make it up.

    Anyway, it sounds as if Putin is in no hurry to extend credit to Tsipras, so the chances are, Greece is going to do a default tomorrow.
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    The quasi-communist European project is one step closer to collapse! Won't be long now.

    That's the only reason I would celebrate Syriza's current success at getting its claws on the lever of power. Other than that, they are a frightening political party that, in Britain, find themselves in an altogether different and milder guise - the Greens.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I think the Greeks are basically desperate.

    One interesting thing that's come out is that the IMF are charging a very high interest rate to Greece and have so far made nearly 3bn Euros profit from Greek suffering! You really couldn't make it up.
    Why is it that Greece is made out to be the bad guys? Germany shows no sign of wanting to compromise.
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    (Original post by The Dictator)
    The quasi-communist European project is one step closer to collapse! Won't be long now.

    That's the only reason I would celebrate Syriza's current success at getting its claws on the lever of power. Other than that, they are a frightening political party that, in Britain, find themselves in an altogether different and milder guise - the Greens.
    Greece lacks the size today, the EU bailout funds can total 750bn (not sure if Euro or Dollar), although since Greece is growing now it may be better for it to stay.

    The Greens are far worse. They want to reduce consumption and international trade which will decimate British manufacturing.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Why is it that Greece is made out to be the bad guys? Germany shows no sign of wanting to compromise.
    Germany has been kind in giving a basket case money. That being said i do think Greece should be allowed reduced interest on the loans.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I think the Greeks are basically desperate.

    One interesting thing that's come out is that the IMF are charging a very high interest rate to Greece and have so far made nearly 3bn Euros profit from Greek suffering! You really couldn't make it up.

    Anyway, it sounds as if Putin is in no hurry to extend credit to Tsipras, so the chances are, Greece is going to do a default tomorrow.
    Source? Would charging a high interest rate not completely defeat the point of the imf? Their a lender of last resort, driving countries further into poverty (though it often happens inadvertently) seems a bit contradictory.

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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Source? Would charging a high interest rate not completely defeat the point of the imf? Their a lender of last resort, driving countries further into poverty (though it often happens inadvertently) seems a bit contradictory.

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    Well in theory interest rates are supposed to reflect the risk premium and if they are the cheaper than the market then it'n not a bad deal. Now that Greece is on the med though (although nobody knows what all this arguing will do to confidence) they should be allowed to refinance.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Source? Would charging a high interest rate not completely defeat the point of the imf? Their a lender of last resort, driving countries further into poverty (though it often happens inadvertently) seems a bit contradictory.

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    IMF interest rate to Greece is 3.6%, about 8 times their standard rate.
    http://jubileedebt.org.uk/news/imf-m...t-greece-loans

    Someone has to pay for Christine Lagarde's designer house in the wealthiest arrondisment in Paris!

    Fun seeing the Germans trying to justify the high rates being charged to Greece. Do they have no shame?
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-923281.html
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I think the Greeks are basically desperate.

    One interesting thing that's come out is that the IMF are charging a very high interest rate to Greece and have so far made nearly 3bn Euros profit from Greek suffering! You really couldn't make it up.

    Anyway, it sounds as if Putin is in no hurry to extend credit to Tsipras, so the chances are, Greece is going to do a default tomorrow.
    Greece isn't going to default. They did make some 1.2bn from T-Bills, so that should keep it afloat. Now, if a default happens, expect it in summer.

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    Not going to be able to pay it back. Will be stuck in austerity wiith an increasingly desperate and annoyed populace who feel betrayed, and who will seek comfort elsewhere, most likely with our Russian friends.

    I don't blame them, they've got families to feed. The idea that Greeks are lazy is bs, they work longer than Germans according to statistics.


    Might as well write off the debt before it gets out of hand. The Euro is ****ed lets not bring the whole continent down with it
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    Greece isn't going to default. They did make some 1.2bn from T-Bills, so that should keep it afloat. Now, if a default happens, expect it in summer.

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    Yes, they managed to pay it. Quite a lot of relief all round, but as you say, the real crunch is yet to come.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Yes, they managed to pay it. Quite a lot of relief all round, but as you say, the real crunch is yet to come.
    The crunch is always yet to come. European politics is based around always ensuring the coming crunch is a week away. Who needs long term solutions when you can drunkenly stagger from stop gap to stop gap.

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    They need Euro-bonds.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    The crunch is always yet to come. European politics is based around always ensuring the coming crunch is a week away. Who needs long term solutions when you can drunkenly stagger from stop gap to stop gap.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yes, there's more than a touch of that to EU 'crisis management'! :lol:

    Kicking the can down the road has to reach the end of the line (to mix metaphors) at some point though and Greece is getting pretty close. The restructuring they want doesn't seem to seriously be on offer and they aren't in a position to take out yet more super-loans. The results are pretty inevitable as the EU is not willing to truly resolve it. A chaotic withdrawal from the Euro still seems most likely, with some kind of profound and even more dire austerity/stagnation and societal collapse as the other, stay-in-the-Euro alternative.

    I think Tsipras and Varoufakis know this, even though they can't admit it to the Greek people. The loathing the population have for the Drachma days must be terribly intense to have survived all this!
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Why is it that Greece is made out to be the bad guys? Germany shows no sign of wanting to compromise.
    It's like if your telephone company stops providing you with a telephone line, and then demands you still pay the monthly fee. When they offer to only make you pay half the fee and you refuse, they declare you unwilling to compromise and therefore clearly in the wrong.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I think the Greeks are basically desperate.

    One interesting thing that's come out is that the IMF are charging a very high interest rate to Greece and have so far made nearly 3bn Euros profit from Greek suffering! You really couldn't make it up.

    Anyway, it sounds as if Putin is in no hurry to extend credit to Tsipras, so the chances are, Greece is going to do a default tomorrow.
    They have no need to panic. Still a few options left. Most likely includes a pipeline and China. China have a vast amount of forex reserves in usd anyway, some of which they could do with offloading.

    They can crash the euro and exploit creditors anyway like that. Then with control of their own currency induce some hyperinflation and exploit them further. There's a lot they can still do. It won't be pretty, but the EU is in more **** than Greece at this point imo. Somebody will eat the loss, and it won't be Greece.
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    (Original post by samba)
    They have no need to panic. Still a few options left. Most likely includes a pipeline and China. China have a vast amount of forex reserves in usd anyway, some of which they could do with offloading.

    They can crash the euro and exploit creditors anyway like that. Then with control of their own currency induce some hyperinflation and exploit them further. There's a lot they can still do. It won't be pretty, but the EU is in more **** than Greece at this point imo. Somebody will eat the loss, and it won't be Greece.
    Why would China want to do that?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Why would China want to do that?
    Silk Road type thing. A greek exit would be nomnom.

    There's gonna be a lot of scope to exploit the markets over it btw; could be worth taking a punt now, but i'm personally waiting a bit first
 
 
 
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