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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    It's not the wrong path though. Loads of ex-muslims profess that the best decision they ever made was leaving Islam.

    Now the OP has clearly expressed the desire not to see swarms of muslims invade this thread with their dawah and Qur'an quotes, why can't they respect that? If anything, muslims doing that are likely to make her dislike Islam even more.
    no one sees as the wrong path now, because they believe they're free from the restriction of the religion but that wont be the case when she dies,
    we have to warn our sister about the problems that will come her way! if she dislikes Islam more i hope Allah helps her because thats all that can help her.
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    (Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
    ohhh!! plz u just try to oppose Islam, & u r in such a hate of Muslims & Islam it just shows through ur posts against Islam... :unimpressed:
    I don't hate Muslims. Many people very close to me are Muslim.

    What I am doing is pointing out to you that Islam is a false superstition that is obviously invented by men. It's for your benefit that you realise this, since when you step out of Islam you will receive a rush of freedom from escaping from being a slave to irrationality and made up bigotry (i.e Islam)
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    (Original post by farhiyaserar)
    well we Muslims believe anyone who chooses to not believe in Allah, or believe in other gods go to hell.
    Wow! And is it Islam that teaches you to hate like this?

    (Original post by farhiyaserar)
    even if the person doesnt believe in the existence of god or hell , its still good to advice them even if they dont take it, this in turn also means that we as muslims wont be questioned by Allah because we didnt standing by watching our fellow sister sin. we talked to her and told her the pros and cons left her to her own decision which i do hope is one that is better for her future and afterlife

    unless of course you didn't know the existence of Islam.
    So you believe, that your Allah who is ar-Rahim (most merciful), but lacks the mercy to stop endlessly and eternally torturing people in Hell. Torture that is even difficult to conceive, with fire, and being forced to drink boiling oil, having one's skin beaten and burnt off, and then have new skins on to start to torture and suffering all over again. Torture that even the cruellest, most sadistic, most unmerciful human on this planet has not inflicted on another human being. You believe your Allah, ar-Rahim is so merciful that he sends people to this hell forever?

    And do you believe that an Atheist or a Hindu, who spends his entire life devoted to others, who never steals, never harms anybody, always positive to others, who gives all his wealth to charity, who works night and day and eventually discovers the cure for cancer: he will go hell because he knew of the existence of Islam and didn't become Muslim?

    Whilst a Muslim, who lives his life selfishly, who steals, murders, rapes and is horrible to others all his life, but then he goes on Hajj in sincerity and dies on the way home: this man will go to Heaven?
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    Wow! And is it Islam that teaches you to hate like this?



    So you believe, that your Allah who is ar-Rahim (most merciful), but lacks the mercy to stop endlessly and eternally torturing people in Hell. Torture that is even difficult to conceive, with fire, and being forced to drink boiling oil, having one's skin beaten and burnt off, and then have new skins on to start to torture and suffering all over again. Torture that even the cruellest, most sadistic, most unmerciful human on this planet has not inflicted on another human being. You believe your Allah, ar-Rahim is so merciful that he sends people to this hell forever?

    And do you believe that an Atheist or a Hindu, who spends his entire life devoted to others, who never steals, never harms anybody, always positive to others, who gives all his wealth to charity, who works night and day and eventually discovers the cure for cancer: he will go hell because he knew of the existence of Islam and didn't become Muslim?

    Whilst a Muslim, who lives his life selfishly, who steals, murders, rapes and is horrible to others all his life, but then he goes on Hajj in sincerity and dies on the way home: this man will go to Heaven?
    there is no hate...

    the main thing about Islam is believing in Allah, there no good that can out weigh the fact that you dont believe in Allah, except if Allah chooses so.

    that man will go to heaven because he has a clean a slate. all his past sins are forgiven so they are not taken into consideration...

    thats why Allah is ar-rahim: he forgives all sins except shirk-which is not believing in allah. its really simple
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    (Original post by MamzZass)
    Tbh I don't really believe in God anymore and there are a number of reasons why.

    Firstly, the fact that God demands all of his creation to 'submit' to his will is preposterous especially so that they are sent to hell of they don't. It makes God out to be quite frankly an egotistical maniac self-obsessed with himself.

    Secondly, the problem of evil and suffering. "either God cannot abolish evil or he will not. If he cannot then he is not all powerful; if he will not then he is not all good"(epicurus) to simplify this argument, some key beliefs are that God is omniopotent and omnibenevolent. But the problem of evil and suffering challenges this as how can a God with these characteristics let evil and suffering exist?

    Finally, there are more reasons as to why I believe that God doesn't exist but I think the ones above illustrate my view.
    So to sum up, no I don't believe that the quran is the word of God simply because God can't exist. However, if he were to exist then God is not worthy of any praise and is in fact very flawed and his 'word' tbh is BS.
    All good points. I guess that once one breaks free of the conditioning, some truths really are "self evident".
    Congratulations on making that discovery!
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    (Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
    I sayed it cannot happen unless Allah wants.. If Allah wants to do something he just orders it & it happens..
    How very convenient.
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    (Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
    Coming to ur answers one by one..1) Slavery according to Islam means that when u fought a war & the people u arrested r considered to be slaves..& if they want to get free they may get by paying something which the other person demands. he can also pay money once or half-half.. Except this reason u cant make someone as a slave.. but it happens in many countries, people r kidnapped and then smugled & mad as slaves.. Is that right..?... 2)Having sex with ur female slaves(which I explained u above) is because now she is under ur rule, meant to say supervisor of her.. It is a clean relationship & better than Zina.. having sex without doing marrige is zina & in many foreign countries people gave it a name boyfriend-girlfriend to it... its far better than it.. 3) Its written as if ones wife disobeys him tell her not to do it, if she doesnot hear than dont sleep with her, if she still does not obey u then beat her.. & even after beating she doesnot obey u than there is no choice left except for divorce.. No one has the right to beat her, if they have not tried all the above things.. 4)Ihave also explain zina to u above, and that is the punishment for zina or rape.. 100 lashes to each one who have done it.. 5) Its called Jihad which means to spread the message of Allah without trying to harm them, and not insisting them to accept the Islam... but if they in rply harm u then u have all rights to defend urself..
    1. Not according to the Quran and sunnah. For example, after executing all the male Banu Qurayza (who had surrendered BTW), Muhammad enslaved all the women and children and later sold them to another tribe in exchange for weapons and supplies.
    However, you are still defending slavery. Nice.

    2. A slave cannot give free consent, therefore the sex is rape. You may try to rationalise it, but you are essentially defending rape. Nice.

    3. So you are defending wife beating. Nice.

    4. So you support the flogging of fornicators (and presumably, the stoning of adulterers). Nice.

    5. Again, this is not how the Quran and sunnah describe it. Ibn Kathir explains "wage war against Allah and his messenger" (5:33) to include "opposition, contradiction and disbelief". "Mischief and corruption" (fasad) includes rejecting Allah's message".
    Also, 9:5 says "kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush." Hardly actions of self defence.
    8:39 says to "fight until all religion is for Allah and disbelief is no more" (although disbelievers will be spared if they submit to Islam), so clearly an element of coercion through force.

    Either you are not fully aware of the content of Islamic scripture, or you are being deliberately mendacious in an attempt to paint Islam in a more favourable light.
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    (Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
    Yes, no-doubt Imam Ibn-e-Kathir has written one of the most prominent tafseer..
    Although you'd be surprised how many Muslims reject his tafsir when it paints Islam in a bad light.

    & the Quraan was sent 1400 years ago not at 7th century, it was present in the 7th century & before 7th century..
    The 7th century covers the period from 600AD to 700AD. Muhammad had his first "revelation" in 610AD.
    So the Quran is most certainly a 7th century work.

    Seems you need to brush up on your history as well as Islamic scripture.
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    (Original post by Blackstarr)
    Yes, I do biology, to be specific its anatomy and physiology.

    Edit: I don't recall stating "A single gene determines your sexuality".
    Oh god. You may be doing the wrong course.

    And you stated, "There is no gay gene" or something to that extent, so yes you did.
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    (Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
    Coming to ur answers one by one..1) Slavery according to Islam means that when u fought a war & the people u arrested r considered to be slaves..& if they want to get free they may get by paying something which the other person demands. he can also pay money once or half-half.. Except this reason u cant make someone as a slave.. but it happens in many countries, people r kidnapped and then smugled & mad as slaves.. Is that right..?... 2)Having sex with ur female slaves(which I explained u above) is because now she is under ur rule, meant to say supervisor of her.. It is a clean relationship & better than Zina.. having sex without doing marrige is zina & in many foreign countries people gave it a name boyfriend-girlfriend to it... its far better than it.. 3) Its written as if ones wife disobeys him tell her not to do it, if she doesnot hear than dont sleep with her, if she still does not obey u then beat her.. & even after beating she doesnot obey u than there is no choice left except for divorce.. No one has the right to beat her, if they have not tried all the above things.. 4)Ihave also explain zina to u above, and that is the punishment for zina or rape.. 100 lashes to each one who have done it.. 5) Its called Jihad which means to spread the message of Allah without trying to harm them, and not insisting them to accept the Islam... but if they in rply harm u then u have all rights to defend urself..
    I cant actually believe what I just read, I hope you're not defending the above points.
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    (Original post by farhiyaserar)
    the main thing about Islam is believing in Allah, there no good that can out weigh the fact that you dont believe in Allah, except if Allah chooses so.

    that man will go to heaven because he has a clean a slate. all his past sins are forgiven so they are not taken into consideration...

    thats why Allah is ar-rahim: he forgives all sins except shirk-which is not believing in allah. its really simple
    So you approve of this state of affairs?

    You really think that someone who has spent 50 years killing, abusing, torturing, raping, stealing and exploiting - but died whilst on hajj, is more deserving of paradise than someone who has spent their entire life selflessly in the service of others - but who was not convinced of the existence of the god of Islam?

    You really think that this is what a "most merciful and most just" god would actually do?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So you approve of this state of affairs?

    You really think that someone who has spent 50 years killing, abusing, torturing, raping, stealing and exploiting - but died whilst on hajj, is more deserving of paradise than someone who has spent their entire life selflessly in the service of others - but who was not convinced of the existence of the god of Islam?

    You really think that this is what a "most merciful and most just" god would actually do?
    I am explaining to you the rules, i dont know what decision Allah will make for this certain individual, they could be forgiven and go to heaven on the day of judgement!

    however im not sure if you're forgiven for intentionally making another soul bleed: murder, torture, rape... so dont qoute me on that

    going to heaven is actually very simple, youre good deeds and your bad deeds will be put on a scale and whichever one weighs more is where you'll go.

    and going to hajj means that all youre sins are forgiven so what you did in the past doesnt matter. therefore the individual who did good his whole life but didnt believe in Allah has more sins compared to the individual who went to hajj and had their sins forgiven

    also im not the one to say who is deserving and who isnt because i dont choose who goes to heaven and hell
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    (Original post by farhiyaserar)
    no one sees as the wrong path now, because they believe they're free from the restriction of the religion but that wont be the case when she dies,
    we have to warn our sister about the problems that will come her way! if she dislikes Islam more i hope Allah helps her because thats all that can help her.
    It will be the case when she dies because Jahannam doesn't exist, nor does Allah.
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    (Original post by farhiyaserar)
    I am explaining to you the rules, i dont know what decision Allah will make for this certain individual, they could be forgiven and go to heaven on the day of judgement!
    This is the same cop-out that is regularly used by Muslims when confronted by the clearly illogical and unjust system devised by the authors of the Quran.

    "I don't make the rules. Allah Knows Best™"

    However, you clearly support this system, so you should really be able to understand it.

    I will explain it to you.
    The Good Man goes to hell and is tortured forever.
    The Monster goes to jannah and is in paradise forever.

    And you agree with this state of affairs.
    If you didn't, you wouldn't be a Muslim because you would consider Allah to be wrong, and no Muslim can hold that position.

    In light of your established position on suffering and justice, I assume that you are equally comfortable with the plight of Palestinians, Yazidis, Rohingya, etc.
    Allah Knows Best™, remember?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    It will be the case when she dies because Jahannam doesn't exist, nor does Allah.
    'And the eminent among his people who disbelieved and denied the meeting of the Hereafter while We had given them luxury in the worldly life said, "This is not but a man like yourselves. He eats of that from which you eat and drinks of what you drink.

    And if you should obey a man like yourselves, indeed, you would then be losers.

    How far, how far, is that which you are promised.

    Does he promise you that when you have died and become dust and bones that you will be brought forth [once more]?

    Life is not but our worldly life - we die and live, but we will not be resurrected.

    He is not but a man who has invented a lie about God, and we will not believe him."'
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    'And the eminent among his people who disbelieved and denied the meeting of the Hereafter while We had given them luxury in the worldly life said, "This is not but a man like yourselves. He eats of that from which you eat and drinks of what you drink.

    And if you should obey a man like yourselves, indeed, you would then be losers.

    How far, how far, is that which you are promised.

    Does he promise you that when you have died and become dust and bones that you will be brought forth [once more]?

    Life is not but our worldly life - we die and live, but we will not be resurrected.

    He is not but a man who has invented a lie about God, and we will not believe him."'
    Circular reasoning and these quotes just reinforce how absurd the notion of Allah actually is.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Circular reasoning and these quotes just reinforce how absurd the notion of Allah actually is.
    How does it reinforce absurdity? If anything, there is a verse for almost any situation, showing how the Quran always has and always will be a relevant commentary and guidance for society.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    How does it reinforce absurdity? If anything, there is a verse for almost any situation, showing how the Quran always has and always will be a relevant commentary and guidance for society.
    Verse for any situation? Hardly. It is in essence just threats against those who don't believe in the religion. It hardly takes a genius to work out that Muhammad would have foreseen that there would be people not fooled by him and thus denouncing them as traitors and losers would be in his best interests.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Verse for any situation? Hardly. It is in essence just threats against those who don't believe in the religion. It hardly takes a genius to work out that Muhammad would have foreseen that there would be people not fooled by him and thus denouncing them as traitors and losers would be in his best interests.
    Your basic premise is that Muhammad (saw) lacked sincerity in his mission; he was offered position of power, wealth, etc, yet he refused it, and he was beaten, abused, tormented, attempts made on his life, and this was even before he even left Mecca for Madinah, still only having a small following of oppressed believers who kept to themselves. So in your belief, he was a person who lacked sincerity and just wanted to become a leader and get what he wants, so to get what he wanted he preached about God, charity, righteousness? That's obsurred, and you have little evidence to support that massive assumption.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Your basic premise is that Muhammad (saw) lacked sincerity in his mission; he was offered position of power, wealth, etc, yet he refused it, and he was beaten, abused, tormented, attempts made on his life, and this was even before he even left Mecca for Madinah, still only having a small following of oppressed believers who kept to themselves. So in your belief, he was a person who lacked sincerity and just wanted to become a leader and get what he wants, so to get what he wanted he preached about God, charity, righteousness? That's obsurred, and you have little evidence to support that massive assumption.
    My comment doesn't depend on Muhammad being insincere. In my view it would still apply even if he truly believed what he said. He would still proclaim those who disagreed with him as losers and would obviously see the massive advantages to his cause by doing so, even if he still believed that his revelations were genuine.

    Speaking of massive assumptions, you have made the biggest of them all by assuming he was sincere based on his own writings, i.e. Quran. Again, it doesn't take a genius to work out that intelligent individuals knew just how powerful the notion that God is on their side could be to forward their cause. And thus lying by claiming to be sincere would be in their best interests. As you take his words as Gospel, you are taking him at face value without being able to objectively prove, one way or the other, that he was sincere.
 
 
 
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