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Feminist reaction to kesha contract trial shows why it's scary to be accused of rape. watch

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    All rape claims should be treated as true until the rapist sentenced immediately
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    (Original post by Mancini)
    You wish to prove that feminists are logical by making an illogical post where you claim that the judge should have stripped Dr Luke of his legal contract with Kesha on her rape claim. You just further prove that feminists are illogical, if you can't see it I cannot help you. For someone who is doing a degree in law I truly hope you do not ever become a lawyer your mind is clouded by feminist indoctrination which does not help you see things logically. Once you have already declared you are for one side in a debate you have no right to even enter a debate nor should you have any right to enter any law court.
    The whole point of a debate is that one side gives their opinion and the other side disagree. If both sides agree with each other it is not a debate. And I'm very sure that your opinion in this debate was made very clear and one sided from the start. Not to mention, the whole point of a court is that the advocate argue COMPLETELY for their client. i.e. they give evidence that supports only their client, to do otherwise would be a breach of ethical duty, something you can get disbarred for. I considered both sides before basing my opinion to lie with Ke$ha. It would not have made him careerless if the judge had awarded in Ke$ha's favour, the producer could still work with sony and artists, all it would have meant is Ke$ha would be free of a contract, with an individual she alleges raped her, so in my opinion it would have been better to award in Ke$ha's favour.

    Feminism does NOT make you illogical. I'm not sure where you are finding your evidence to base this opinion bar in your own biased views which according to you mean "you have no right to belong in a debate" which to me, makes you seem rather illogical.
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    (Original post by Bree96)
    The whole point of a debate is that one side gives their opinion and the other side disagree. If both sides agree with each other it is not a debate. And I'm very sure that your opinion in this debate was made very clear and one sided from the start. Not to mention, the whole point of a court is that the advocate argue COMPLETELY for their client. i.e. they give evidence that supports only their client, to do otherwise would be a breach of ethical duty, something you can get disbarred for. I considered both sides before basing my opinion to lie with Ke$ha. It would not have made him careerless if the judge had awarded in Ke$ha's favour, the producer could still work with sony and artists, all it would have meant is Ke$ha would be free of a contract, with an individual she alleges raped her, so in my opinion it would have been better to award in Ke$ha's favour.

    Feminism does NOT make you illogical. I'm not sure where you are finding your evidence to base this opinion bar in your own biased views which according to you mean "you have no right to belong in a debate" which to me seems rather illogical.
    I support the evidence not Kesha or Dr Luke and the evidence is not strong on Kesha's side which tells me your choice to support Kesha comes from your feminist bias.

    Think again about that bold bit, it makes you illogical , clouds your mind and makes you treat your fellow human differently just because of their sex.
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    Support the evidence as in, thinking back to a post I believe you wrote at the beginning of the thread, doesn't exist because the claim is for a decade ago? Are you saying lack of physical evidence is what you are basing your decision on?

    If that is the case I would like to point out that the majority of victim's take weeks, months or years to report a rape or sexual assault. Leaving the majority of cases as 'word against word', the testimony is evidence and disregarding it completely is worrying. I sincerely hope you are never placed on a jury for a sexual offence because that would be detrimental.

    Furthermore, yes, I am a feminist. Which means I believe in equality of the genders. Which means I want men to have as much equality as woman, just as much as I want women to be equal to men. I do not support women more (misandry) or men more (misogyny) because I am a feminist. I didn't side with either party straight away, but considered the pros and cons before reaching an opinion.
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    (Original post by Bree96)
    Support the evidence as in, thinking back to a post I believe you wrote at the beginning of the thread, doesn't exist because the claim is for a decade ago? Are you saying lack of physical evidence is what you are basing your decision on?

    If that is the case I would like to point out that the majority of victim's take weeks, months or years to report a rape or sexual assault. Leaving the majority of cases as 'word against word', the testimony is evidence and disregarding it completely is worrying. I sincerely hope you are never placed on a jury for a sexual offence because that would be detrimental.

    Furthermore, yes, I am a feminist. Which means I believe in equality of the genders. Which means I want men to have as much equality as woman, just as much as I want women to be equal to men. I do not support women more (misandry) or men more (misogyny) because I am a feminist. I didn't side with either party straight away, but considered the pros and cons before reaching an opinion.
    Use the quoting system don't just claim I wrote something, a feminist who understands the term pros and cons that's new. Feminism is a cancer on society I say.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    All rape claims should be treated as true until the rapist sentenced immediately
    I don't quite agree with this betel. The presumption of innocence is a very very important foundation and principle for a good, safe legal system. You cannot remove that presumption for certain crimes, especially not a crime as severe as rape.
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    (Original post by Mancini)
    Use the quoting system don't just claim I wrote something, a feminist who understands the term pros and cons that's new. Feminism is a cancer on society I say.
    Feminism isn't the cancer in our society, misogyny and misandry is. And from what I can tell you're falling on the side of misogyny. I'm also noticing that you have the uncanny ability to ignore arguments you can't rebutt. Your foundation for your arguments is purely based on your biased feminism-hating. Which leads me to think that actually, you are the one that is completely "illogical", Mancini, here is the quote for you. This is the post you were replying to:
    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    It's really more demonstrative of how scary it is to accuse someone of rape.What proof is she supposed to present? Eyewitness accounts? CCTV footage? DNA swabs to try and find forensic evidence for a crime that allegedly happened a decade ago?She can't, she knows she can't, and you know she can't. And if everything she said were 100% true, she still couldn't. People like you think this means it is "reasonable" to accuse her of lying.
    And this is your reply:
    (Original post by Mancini)
    I am so sorry that courts of law work on evidence and logic, there is not much I can do for you. Perhaps you wish for a men's reputation and a contract to be ended simply on the basis of one persons words.
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    (Original post by Bree96)
    Feminism isn't the cancer in our society, misogyny and misandry is. And from what I can tell you're falling on the side of misogyny. I'm also noticing that you have the uncanny ability to ignore arguments you can't rebutt. Your foundation for your arguments is purely based on your biased feminism-hating. Which leads me to think that actually, you are the one that is completely "illogical", Mancini, here is the quote for you. This is the post you were replying to:
    And this is your reply:
    Please don't encourage him to quote me again.
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    (Original post by Bree96)
    Feminism isn't the cancer in our society, misogyny and misandry is. And from what I can tell you're falling on the side of misogyny.
    He hates all women because he disagrees with you?

    #FeministLogic.

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    (Original post by Bree96)
    Feminism isn't the cancer in our society, misogyny and misandry is. And from what I can tell you're falling on the side of misogyny. I'm also noticing that you have the uncanny ability to ignore arguments you can't rebutt. Your foundation for your arguments is purely based on your biased feminism-hating. Which leads me to think that actually, you are the one that is completely "illogical", Mancini, here is the quote for you. This is the post you were replying to:
    And this is your reply:
    That's a really silly quote to attack me on and further proves you are illogical.

    Who in their right mind would not agree with my words below.

    Original post by Mancini)
    ''I am so sorry that courts of law work on evidence and logic, there is not much I can do for you. Perhaps you wish for a men's reputation and a contract to be ended simply on the basis of one persons words.''


    Remember the poster bree wishes to be a lawyer.

    I will also add bree, you have no real argument your argument if there is any is ' I'm a feminist and I believe in kesha's word' this isn't an argument. Even without the feminist part it's still ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Mancini)
    That's a really silly quote to attack me on and further proves you are illogical.

    Who in their right mind would not agree with my words below.

    Original post by Mancini)
    ''I am so sorry that courts of law work on evidence and logic, there is not much I can do for you. Perhaps you wish for a men's reputation and a contract to be ended simply on the basis of one persons words.''


    Remember the poster bree wishes to be a lawyer.
    I don't agree with the statement because I actually understand how the court system works when it comes to sexual offences, and a testimony is as admissible as any other form of evidence, it is down to the advocates' ability to examine and cross examine to find/undermine credibility. A lack of other evidence doesn't deem a victim's allegations as incredible...

    And my evidence is that on the balance on probabilities it is feasible that he committed a sexual offences against ke$ha. So, surely it would be better for her to be allowed to exit the contract in order to maintain her safety and well being than not?

    Also, I am not claiming that his feminism hate is what makes him misogynistic. It's his general attitude in general that gives the impression. But of course, I could be mistaken.
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    (Original post by Bree96)
    I don't agree with the statement because I actually understand how the court system works when it comes to sexual offences, and a testimony is as admissible as any other form of evidence, it is down to the advocates' ability to examine and cross examine to find/undermine credibility. A lack of other evidence doesn't deem a victim's allegations as incredible...

    And my evidence is that on the balance on probabilities it is feasible that he committed a sexual offences against ke$ha. So, surely it would be better for her to be allowed to exit the contract in order to maintain her safety and well being than not?

    Also, I am not claiming that his feminism hate is what makes him misogynistic. It's his general attitude in general that gives the impression. But of course, I could be mistaken.
    More gibberish , you just need to learn when to quit because you definitely have no evidence against Dr Luke it's just you believing Kesha's word. Whether this is because you are a feminist or a woman simply choosing to support another woman doesn't matter. Also as a law student this makes you look really bad, is this the calibre of law student the uk is producing these days?

    The Kesha trial just so you know mrs law student is not a sex trial it's a music contract trial. Kesha the apparent rape victim has not taken the person she is accusing of rape to trial for rape. So what you know about sexual offences law's don't matter, also the trial is in the usa not uk.

    I got to add this last bit because I think it's important, I find it funny that someone who doesn't really know me can call me a misgonyist but hey this is feminist thinking and labels are clearly a big thing within feminist circles.
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    (Original post by Bree96)
    I don't agree with the statement because I actually understand how the court system works when it comes to sexual offences, and a testimony is as admissible as any other form of evidence, it is down to the advocates' ability to examine and cross examine to find/undermine credibility. A lack of other evidence doesn't deem a victim's allegations as incredible...

    And my evidence is that on the balance on probabilities it is feasible that he committed a sexual offences against ke$ha. So, surely it would be better for her to be allowed to exit the contract in order to maintain her safety and well being than not?

    Also, I am not claiming that his feminism hate is what makes him misogynistic. It's his general attitude in general that gives the impression. But of course, I could be mistaken.
    So what about this evidence?

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    I am aware it is a contract trial, and I am equally aware it occurred in the USA. However, ke$ha only wished to exit the contract, because she alleges her producer committed offences against her, which was abusing his trust and authority, putting her safety and well being at risk. Clearly, it is a just reason to want to exit a contract or her attorney wouldn't have argued the case based on it. And regardless of type of law, testimonies are still admissible evidence and are able to be relied upon provided credibility.

    I did not side with her because she is a woman. If it was a man in Ke$ha's position I would feel as equally as strongly, nor is it because I am a feminist. It is insane that the American legal system is making a potential victim remain in a contract with their alleged attacker.

    Would your position change if Ke$ha was a man? Or would their claims seem more credible to you?
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    (Original post by Bree96)
    I am aware it is a contract trial, and I am equally aware it occurred in the USA. However, ke$ha only wished to exit the contract, because she alleges her producer committed offences against her, which was abusing his trust and authority, putting her safety and well being at risk. Clearly, it is a just reason to want to exit a contract or her attorney wouldn't have argued the case based on it. And regardless of type of law, testimonies are still admissible evidence and are able to be relied upon provided credibility.

    I did not side with her because she is a woman. If it was a man in Ke$ha's position I would feel as equally as strongly, nor is it because I am a feminist. It is insane that the American legal system is making a potential victim remain in a contract with their alleged attacker.

    Would your position change if Ke$ha was a man? Or would their claims seem more credible to you?
    You are asking a question which has already been answered, perhaps you have reading comprehension problems.
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    (Original post by Bree96)
    I didn't even get past the first page of posts before wanting to scream. This is actually a rather disgusting thread and some of the things I have read are incredibly ignorant.

    Those who are saying "Oh, a woman only has to say rape and a guy is in jail, life ruined" I'd like to tell you that statistically, sexual offences have THE lowest conviction rate in criminal law. It is incredibly difficult to prove, and the strong victim-blaming attitude that the vast majority of society still hold is a contributory factor.

    I support Ke$ha. It is so hard to prove rape in a criminal court, especially given the standard of proof that is required, both in the USA and UK. It's one victim's testimony against the defendant's, and it's up to some very intelligent advocates to test the credibility of the witness and the defendant to sway the jury's decision. A civil court has a much lower standard of proof, (on the balance of probabilities) and so, the fact she has gone to a civil court, to get out of her contract, is a much more achievable aim, and you cannot blame her for trying. Nobody but Ke$ha and the producer know's what really happened, so it is not our place to call her a liar or him a rapist at this point. However, on the balance of probabilities, that judge should have relieved her from the contract in my opinion, the judge would not have needed to give any damages to Ke$ha from the producer or sony, it would not instantly brand the producer a rapist, it would just allow Ke$ha to be released from a contract, which really isn't that terrible. (I'm doing a degree in law, albeit how I think the case should have been decided is my opinion and I appreciate that)

    Also, the posts I read that were disrespectful to feminism, you are strongly confusing misandry with feminism. They are two completely different political concepts and you seriously need to educate yourself in order to give an opinion that is worth listening to. And saying that feminists aren't logical? That is a huge generalisation and one I strongly disagree with.
    Why should they have released her from the contract in the civil trial? The only evidence in her favour was her word which is hardly reliable given she said under oath that it hadn't happened


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    (Original post by Bree96)
    I am aware it is a contract trial, and I am equally aware it occurred in the USA. However, ke$ha only wished to exit the contract, because she alleges her producer committed offences against her, which was abusing his trust and authority, putting her safety and well being at risk. Clearly, it is a just reason to want to exit a contract or her attorney wouldn't have argued the case based on it. And regardless of type of law, testimonies are still admissible evidence and are able to be relied upon provided credibility.

    I did not side with her because she is a woman. If it was a man in Ke$ha's position I would feel as equally as strongly, nor is it because I am a feminist. It is insane that the American legal system is making a potential victim remain in a contract with their alleged attacker.

    Would your position change if Ke$ha was a man? Or would their claims seem more credible to you?
    She was offered to work with a different producer, but she declined. This isn't about her safety at all, this is about getting out of the contract and nothing else.
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    (Original post by Bree96)
    I am aware it is a contract trial, and I am equally aware it occurred in the USA. However, ke$ha only wished to exit the contract, because she alleges her producer committed offences against her, which was abusing his trust and authority, putting her safety and well being at risk.
    She made an allegation with no evidence beyond her own testimony - a testimony that has equal value to Dr Luke's own 'no I didn't'.

    (Original post by Bree96)
    Clearly, it is a just reason to want to exit a contract or her attorney wouldn't have argued the case based on it. And regardless of type of law, testimonies are still admissible evidence and are able to be relied upon provided credibility.
    It is a just reason IF IT HAPPENED. If evidence is provided that proves the incident happened beyond reasonable doubt, then her argument is sound, and the court should rule in her favour. If not, then it shouldn't. Testimonies are admissible evidence but when they're the only form of evidence, it devolves into a 'he said/she said' - aka not enough to condemn a man as a rapist.

    (Original post by Bree96)
    I did not side with her because she is a woman. If it was a man in Ke$ha's position I would feel as equally as strongly, nor is it because I am a feminist. It is insane that the American legal system is making a potential victim remain in a contract with their alleged attacker.
    It makes her remain in the contract because no proof has been provided that she shouldn't? If it did, it would set a dangerous precedent that contracts can be annulled on the back of a single claim that has no evidence beyond the claimant's word. If proof is provided, then she should be freed. If not, then she shouldn't. It's not hard.

    (Original post by Bree96)
    Would your position change if Ke$ha was a man? Or would their claims seem more credible to you?
    No. In fact it would appear women claiming rape are taken more seriously than men when claiming the same thing.
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    (Original post by Bree96)
    I don't quite agree with this betel. The presumption of innocence is a very very important foundation and principle for a good, safe legal system. You cannot remove that presumption for certain crimes, especially not a crime as severe as rape.
    When the only facts are a female is alleging rape, we ought to believe them because f the patriatchy
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    Not a die hard proof that Dr Luke raped Kesha, but says something
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