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    (Original post by Vesniep)
    FACTS:
    I'm sorry but that's wrong .
    In wikipedia if you search terrorism in Europe ALL terror attacks from 18/09/12 till now were due to Islam ( 295 dead , about 1100 injured ).
    On the other side of the coin , terror attacks now are not that organised and thus not very successful .
    In 2004, Spain (191 dead,2050 injured) and 2005,London (56,700) they posed a greater threat .

    MY OPINION:
    The problem is that people are scared way more than they should and that helps right-wing and far-right parties.
    People also tend to generalise : Some muslims are dangerous => all muslims are dangerous => we want muslims out of our country or even worse we want immigrants out of our country=> let's vote far-right so that we 'take our country back! and make X great again ' .
    However I should also mention that the average muslim is not moderate and there should be a reform in their values should they integrate in western societies.

    It's not wrong. It's from the Global Research site (Statistics are for the US). It''ll help if you clicked on the link and read my post before replying.

    You also say that the average Muslim is not moderate. I need a source for this or else I'm assuming it's *******s.
    My family are Muslim. Are you calling them radical?
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    you're a loony if you think hating an ideology is hate speech

    You seem to be mixing terms willy nilliy here

    But again you can't present your own argument as to why you want to remove our freedoms so rather you attack my defense of these freedoms

    This tells me which side you are on
    Get over this delusion that Islam is just an ideology, its also a religion to which 1.5 billion people follow. For many of whom, its the only form of government that they know, its their families beliefs and values, its the traditions to which they've adhered to for many years.

    Attacking Islam as an ideology alone is not possible, so hating Islam as an ideology is not possible. You can criticise parts of Islam, but hating on it is implicitly hating on 1.5 billion people because of how integrated it is with peoples' lives.

    And these unwarranted attacks no doubt contribute towards Muslims feeling segregated in the west and therefore becoming hateful - and we both know what that leads to.

    Pull your arguments together, you've got a notoriously annoying one-dimensional style of arguing by listing points and not developing things.
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    :rolleyes: You know exactly what I'm talking about, wriggle, wriggle. Come on if it's not racism that's driving the clear bias you've shown between this and the Gordon Brown stuff what is it?
    Look, you made a claim about what Brown said and provided a video to support your claim. The video clearly showed he did not say anything like what you claimed he said. In this case the man was reported to have divulged his motivations for the stabbing. I rely on that report, which has not been shown to be wrong. I can see no link. Matter closed.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    These people are trying to rationalise people who watch what they perceive to be Western aggression and think an apporpriate response is to go and massacre thousands of Yazidi men and take the females as sex slaves. But as you allude to, that's not even the worst thing. They act like Muslims around the world are susceptible to this sort of thought process. This is what they think of Muslims. They think Muslims are like children who need to be molly-coddled or else they'll rage and start killing and raping everything.
    Absolutely! The problem with the regressive left's endless apologetics for Islam, is that by constantly saying 'this has nothing to do with Islam!' after every (now almost daily) Islamic attack, is that they're implying that Muslims are somehow genetically more pre-disposed to violence, more incapable of impulse control, more incapable of reasoned adult response to criticism, and far more pre-disposed to crazed and grossly violent flying off the handle at the slightest hint of said criticism, than any other group of people. We're seeing it in this thread too. 'Hating on Islam will create more violent extremists!' they say, seemingly incapable of recognising the bigotry they're displaying towards Muslims. Weird.

    Talking of the Yazidis and the regressive left, I saw someone on Twitter not long ago with one of the worst displays of moral and cultural relativism I've ever seen. She/he said that we in the west have no moral grounds for opposing the mass enslavement and rape of the Yazidi women and children because some western women go and live in the Playboy mansion, and therefore are sex slaves, and therefore the west is no better than ISIS. I wish I was making this up.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Get over this delusion that Islam is just an ideology,
    No. it's not a delusion (I see you are reverting to personal attacks now your argument has been shown for the stupidity it is)

    Ideology is a collection of beliefsheld by an individual, group or society. It can be described as a set of conscious and unconscious ideas which make up one's beliefs, goals, expectations, and motivations.

    From the dictionary

    - The set of beliefs characteristic of a social group or individual:

    It's not something special it's just a set of outdated ideas and beliefs like most ideologies

    the rest of your post is based on this misconception (beside being wholly wrong) unless you are now going to claim the dictionary has it all wrong
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    (Original post by Lujubi)
    Did you read my post? I said that less than 2% of terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

    You just copied and pasted Wikipedia articles telling me that terrorist attacks happen in Iraq and other ME countries. Arr you surprised that terrorist attacks happen in majority-Muslim countries too?
    you can keep pushing this "religion of peace" "#notallmuslims" rubbish but everyone with a sane mind can see through it

    The middle east and North Africa covered in sectarian
    sunni vs shia violence that's killed hundreds of thousands over the last few years.

    Weekly Islamic terror attacks even in the west, hundreds dead.

    Homophobic laws and the death penalty for gays in many Islamic countries. Even in the secular Turkey that nation that western muslims always promote as the perfect example of "secular islam" hate crimes are rampant, Turkey has the highest amount of physical violence recorded against gays in Europe.

    Misogyny and complete ignorance towards women's rights in all Islamic countries.

    Complete lack of democracy in Islamic countries, democracy and Islam are just not compatible.

    But yes quote a single Wikipedia snippit on terror attacks all you want, I don't see Jews or Buddhists killing their own people and running over children in trucks.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    No. it's not a delusion (I see you are reverting to personal attacks now your argument has been shown for the stupidity it is)

    Ideology is a collection of beliefsheld by an individual, group or society. It can be described as a set of conscious and unconscious ideas which make up one's beliefs, goals, expectations, and motivations.

    From the dictionary

    - The set of beliefs characteristic of a social group or individual:

    It's not something special it's just a set of outdated ideas and beliefs like most ideologies

    the rest of your post is based on this misconception (beside being wholly wrong) unless you are now going to claim the dictionary has it all wrong
    Lol you're simply clueless, I explained that Islam is more than just an ideology. I'm done arguing with a brick wall.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Lol you're simply clueless, I explained that Islam is more than just an ideology. I'm done arguing with a brick wall.
    Ah so the dictionary is wrong and you are right then
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Lol you're simply clueless, I explained that Islam is more than just an ideology. I'm done arguing with a brick wall.
    Islam is an ideology, as are all religions. It has elements, as you have admitted, that are obnoxious and it is no wonder that many people hate it, and even more criticise it.

    Hating the ideology for good reason is not the same as hating its adherents. Hating Islam is not the same as hating Moslems.

    You are on a wild goose chase so I suggest you return to the question I asked in post 251 and which you have, so far, studiously ignored.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Ah so the dictionary is wrong and you are right then
    No, I merely said that Islam is other things in addition to an ideology.

    If your brain weren't pure mush, you'd know that I said that.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Look, you made a claim about what Brown said and provided a video to support your claim. The video clearly showed he did not say anything like what you claimed he said. In this case the man was reported to have divulged his motivations for the stabbing. I rely on that report, which has not been shown to be wrong. I can see no link. Matter closed.
    Ha, the video may not alone but Gordon Brown's Presbyterian conscience is hardly a secret. Gordon Brown describes gambling, drugs and alcohol as evil and against his strongly held personal views, clearly this is influenced by puritanism. There's very little left to doubt yet you still jumped to his defence and clung onto the doubt. Here we see you take the opposite approach, he could be lying about his motivations, when you jumped into this thread we only had Russia Today and a few other unreliable sites to go by, again if not racism where does this inconsistency come from?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Islam is an ideology, as are all religions. It has elements, as you have admitted, that are obnoxious and it is no wonder that many people hate it, and even more criticise it.

    Hating the ideology for good reason is not the same as hating its adherents. Hating Islam is not the same as hating Moslems.

    You are on a wild goose chase so I suggest you return to the question I asked in post 251 and which you have, so far, studiously ignored.
    No ****, really? that's why I said its NOT ONLY AN IDEOLOGY BUT OTHER THINGS AS WELL.

    you guys literally read one sentence and attack, its pathetic.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    No, I merely said that Islam is other things in addition to an ideology.

    If your brain weren't pure mush, you'd know that I said that.
    So it is an ideology then

    You seem very confused over this simply fact.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    No ****, really? that's why I said its NOT ONLY AN IDEOLOGY BUT OTHER THINGS AS WELL.

    you guys literally read one sentence and attack, its pathetic.
    we spot the first mistake then try and correct it

    Your failure to accept you made a mistake is why we have to keep going over the same point
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    you still jumped to his defence and clung onto the doubt. Here we see you take the opposite approach, he could be lying about his motivations,
    Two points: (a) I never defended Brown, nor even stated his motivations were not religious; I merely stated his motivations were unclear from the video and (b) I have no reason to doubt what this man Mohammed B himself says about his motivations while he is perpetrating the act.

    Now go away.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    No ****, really? that's why I said its NOT ONLY AN IDEOLOGY BUT OTHER THINGS AS WELL.

    you guys literally read one sentence and attack, its pathetic.
    It doesn't matter if it is an ideology, a religion, an idea, a political policy or whatever. It is fair game fro criticism and dislike.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    It doesn't matter if it is an ideology, a religion, an idea, a political policy or whatever. It is fair game fro criticism and dislike.
    Perhaps if you didn't go around jumping into other discussions with no contextual knowledge, you'd save yourself the embarrassment.

    Islam is an ideology, I was explaining to BaconAndSauce that it is more than just an ideology like communism/fascism. I was explaining why insulting Islam isn't as simple as insulting the ideology alone when quite clearly its many other things to them, such as their history, tradition, family values, etc.

    Do you get it yet?
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    Wriggling again.

    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I merely stated his motivations were unclear from the video .
    This is a lie. You stated his motivations were unclear from the video along with the knowledge of his Presbyterian conscience.


    (Original post by Good bloke)
    (b) I have no reason to doubt what this man Mohammed B himself says about his motivations while he is perpetrating the act.
    Why are you so willing to accept the word of a crazed knife attacker?
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Do you get it yet?
    I do (and did anyway). As I said, it is irrelevant.

    The consequences of your attitude go as follows:

    It is forbidden to criticise Islam so as not to offend its adherents.

    Its adherents continue to follow the nasty parts of their ideology/religion/superstition/protected space.

    Later adherents do not know that the nasty parts are unacceptable to educated westerners.

    They continue to expect to follow them when they come to the west.
    They do follow them.

    The west continues to be nice to them.

    The nasty bits become accepted as good behaviour.

    The west regresses to the Middle Ages.



    Put simple, to fail to criticise anything that is unacceptable about an ideology or any way of life is to accept it.
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    Why are you so willing to accept the word of a crazed knife attacker?
    Like most people, I don't automatically assume anyone is lying unless I am sparked into doing so by evidence.
 
 
 
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