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When will the religious people realize there is NO afterlife ?

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    (Original post by macromicro)
    The texts are orders to be obeyed.
    I wasn't able to quote you for some reason. Please have a look at my previous post.
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    (Original post by saran23)
    This is very silly. If they kept it private then how do we know about it. These atheist scientists acquired their fame due their work being published. It is ironically(they were/are great people, the irony is in context to this argument) thanks to these scientists contributions which helped shape the modern culture as we see it now(of course other factors were also involved).
    Letters, journals, diaries, posthumous essays. They acquired their fame for publishing science, not theology. This is all irrelevant though - we agree scientists can be both religious and atheist. Our disagreement lies in their consistency.

    (Original post by saran23)
    My view of spirituality is completely different to yours. Tell me, what is the point of being aware of the cosmos when your spirit will eventually cease to exist?
    For the progression of humanity and for enjoyment. I will die but the human race continues and we must try and contribute to our understanding of the cosmos.

    (Original post by saran23)
    I am also intrigued to know how you perceive the meaning of life to be. Out of all respect, I view [/b]your meaning of spirituality to be an exaggeration of the term curiosity. I don't understand how you believe spirituality to be scientific. Where is the end product of spirituality and the feelings we perceive after we die? In the Universe, nothing extinguishes out from reality they just change form. A star dies and its material is scattered across space and time. When one dies their body decomposes and it is recycled on our planet. But the spirit and the abstract feelings where do they go? What is the end product of spirituality?
    All good questions. It's more than just curiosity. Have you tried meditation before? It is actually the opposite of curiosity. It's the cessation of thought and the concentration on your own consciousness. Feeling a part of the cosmos and a part of the organism that is humanity is much more than curiosity. You've got it in reverse - we are curious because of these spiritual feelings we get when we look at the cosmos and our place within it. The end product of spirituality is death - the nerves stop sending impulses for chemicals to be released, the brain no long analyses them and we are no longer conscious or self-aware. A sad thought but one that you must accept as scientifically true and not be persuaded to speculate religiously or to comfort your own bias and cushion your fear.

    (Original post by saran23)
    [b]The term and the meaning of "Intellectual dishonesty" is flawed in this context. Neither I as a scientist nor you can prove or disprove the existence of God using the scientific method as it is impossible.
    The scientific method requires us to only conclude what can be asserted with evidence - otherwise it is dismissed without evidence. In other words, a scientist only believes a hypothesis once it has been proven. The existence of God has not been proven, thus it cannot be believed by a scientist.
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    There is nothing to disprove an afterlife. Our bodies are one thing, and you may say we have no "soul" but then why do we have feelings? Whatever is inside us is energy and energy cannot simply die and decompose like our bodies, energy has to be channelled into something.
    There is so much to prove there is something more powerful than any being, how else is paranormal activity explained?
    Paranormal activity is nothing more than energy, and is there no possibility that this energy is the same energy that generates feelings and emotions and the essence that defines all living beings from robots and clones?
    It is also a huge generalization to insinuate that only religious people believe in the afterlife, the conception of an afterlife is more philosophical than religious
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    (Original post by mhopkins)
    There is nothing to disprove an afterlife. Our bodies are one thing, and you may say we have no "soul" but then why do we have feelings? Whatever is inside us is energy and energy cannot simply die and decompose like our bodies, energy has to be channelled into something.
    There is so much to prove there is something more powerful than any being, how else is paranormal activity explained?
    Paranormal activity is nothing more than energy, and is there no possibility that this energy is the same energy that generates feelings and emotions and the essence that defines all living beings from robots and clones?
    It is also a huge generalization to insinuate that only religious people believe in the afterlife, the conception of an afterlife is more philosophical than religious
    Best comment ever Thumbs up!
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    (Original post by Tamuna10)
    Best comment ever Thumbs up!
    I'm taking my GCSE religious education exam this year so I thought I'd get a bit of exam inspiration on here! Thank you
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    (Original post by macromicro)
    For the progression of humanity and for enjoyment. I will die but the human race continues and we must try and contribute to our understanding of the cosmos.

    All good questions. It's more than just curiosity. Have you tried meditation before? It is actually the opposite of curiosity. It's the cessation of thought and the concentration on your own consciousness. Feeling a part of the cosmos and a part of the organism that is humanity is much more than curiosity. You've got it in reverse - we are curious because of these spiritual feelings we get when we look at the cosmos and our place within it. The end product of spirituality is death - the nerves stop sending impulses for chemicals to be released, the brain no long analyses them and we are no longer conscious or self-aware. A sad thought but one that you must accept as scientifically true and not be persuaded to speculate religiously or to comfort your own bias and cushion your fear.

    Ok, take the analogy of a light bulb. Take the light bulb to be the human body and the spirit to be the electricity which "lives" in the circuitry of the light bulb. If the tungsten bursts(...wires/neurons stop firing electrical impulses) the circuit becomes incomplete and the bulb dies. But the electricity does not die, it changes form to another form of energy. What I believe is when I die my spirit will leave my body as an enhanced form of my spirit. Using the light bulb analogy, you cannot say death is the end product of spirituality.

    Coming to think of this analogy, I feel that electricity itself is an example of a form of a spirit.
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    (Original post by saran23)

    My view of spirituality is completely different to yours. Tell me, what is the point of being aware of the cosmos when your spirit will eventually cease to exist? I am also intrigued to know how you perceive the meaning of life to be. Out of all respect, I view your meaning of spirituality to be an exaggeration of the term curiosity. I don't understand how you believe spirituality to be scientific. Where is the end product of spirituality and the feelings we perceive after we die? In the Universe, nothing extinguishes out from reality they just change form. A star dies and its material is scattered across space and time. When one dies their body decomposes and it is recycled on our planet. But the spirit and the abstract feelings where do they go? What is the end product of spirituality.
    Sorry, but this isn't accurate. You CAN be extremely spiritual without believing in God. I am an atheist and I probably meditate and ponder more about the universe and meaning of life than most people who believe in God.

    Spirituality is not defined by the "end product", it is simply a state of being in the moment. How would mortality stop someone from being spiritual?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Sorry, but this isn't accurate. You CAN be extremely spiritual without believing in God. I am an atheist and I probably meditate and ponder more about the universe and leaning of life than most people who believe in God.

    Spirituality is not defined by the "end product", it is simply a state of being in the moment. How would mortality stop someone from being spiritual?
    I would like to apologize for that. I didn't think of the spirituality of atheists in that level of breadth. But atheists believe the spirit ceases to exist but we theists don't that is one of our fundamental differences. What is your take on my light bulb analogy(out of curiosity)?
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    (Original post by saran23)
    Ok, take the analogy of a light bulb. Take the light bulb to be the human body and the spirit to be the electricity which "lives" in the circuitry of the light bulb. If the tungsten bursts(...wires/neurons stop firing electrical impulses) the circuit becomes incomplete and the bulb dies. But the electricity does not die, it changes form to another form of energy. What I believe is when I die my spirit will leave my body as an enhanced form of my spirit. In the light bulb analogy, you cannot say death is the end product of spirituality.

    Coming to think of this analogy, I feel that electricity itself is an example of a form of a spirit.
    Your knowledge of science is quite worrying for a so-called "scientist". You have no evidence or even a logical reason to believe that a spirit will leave your body - it is completely irrelevant to the comparison of a light bulb.

    When we die, our chemical/electrical energy becomes heat energy, hence our bodies become colder and colder.
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    (Original post by mhopkins)
    There is nothing to disprove an afterlife.
    We don't have the burden of proof.

    (Original post by mhopkins)
    Whatever is inside us is energy and energy cannot simply die and decompose like our bodies, energy has to be channelled into something.
    Heat.
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    (Original post by mhopkins)
    There is nothing to disprove an afterlife. Our bodies are one thing, and you may say we have no "soul" but then why do we have feelings? Whatever is inside us is energy and energy cannot simply die and decompose like our bodies, energy has to be channelled into something.
    There is so much to prove there is something more powerful than any being, how else is paranormal activity explained?
    Paranormal activity is nothing more than energy, and is there no possibility that this energy is the same energy that generates feelings and emotions and the essence that defines all living beings from robots and clones?
    It is also a huge generalization to insinuate that only religious people believe in the afterlife, the conception of an afterlife is more philosophical than religious
    Our feelings can be explained by nerve impulses and hormones. No soul is needed to explain this.
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    Personally, I believe there is no life after death and that when we die, we die.

    I think that people like to think there is something for us after we die, as a way to come to terms with death because death is a frightening concept. I fear death and I'm sure many of you do too. All those people, who have committed atrocities and have gotten away with it, it's nice for people to know that they will be punished in hell, is it not? A way to cope... There is no justice in this world.
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    Who in their right mind would start a religious debate in the first place? Such stirring geez :/
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    (Original post by macromicro)
    Your knowledge of science is quite worrying for a so-called "scientist". You have no evidence or even a logical reason to believe that a spirit will leave your body - it is completely irrelevant to the comparison of a light bulb.

    When we die, our chemical/electrical energy becomes heat energy, hence our bodies become colder and colder.
    You didn't have evidence either for your claim that the spirit dies.

    The heat, chemical energy can be converted again to electricity hence a similar type of logic can be applied likewise to the human spirit. The human spirit therefore can be hypothesised as a universal force interwoven into the fabric of this universe thus it is eternal. This hypothesis perfectly supports my belief on Brahman/atman.
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    (Original post by saran23)
    I would like to apologize for that. I didn't think of the spirituality of atheists in that level of breadth. But atheists believe the spirit ceases to exist but we theists don't that is one of our fundamental differences. What is your take on my light bulb analogy(out of curiosity)?
    I think that atheists use the word spirituality in a different sense to a theist.Theists believe in a spirit or a soul.However when atheists use the term they mean more a sense of wonder or awe at the majesty of the universe.A sort of soaring feeling that borders on worship.Its just that the word that best describes this feeling is spiritual.It doesnt mean that they actually believe in the existence of a spirit.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Our feelings can be explained by nerve impulses and hormones. No soul is needed to explain this.
    Tbh even this doesn't disprove what mhopkins said. There are still many laws of this world that we need to define, and I do believe that our energy has to be channelled into something. As you said, spirituality is something you experience as an Atheist and spirituality can take you far as far as experiencing yourself leaving your body, I don't think that can be explained by nerve impulses or hormones. There are lots of stories about out of body experiences and people remembering their past lives.

    I know that I personally have experienced that thing where you could have sworn you have met someone before and it turns out you've never known them at all, I like to think sometimes that there must be more that meets the eye.
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    (Original post by saran23)
    You didn't have evidence either for your claim that the spirit dies.
    You haven't provided evidence for your claim that the spirit exists in the first place so why on earth am I expected to provide evidence for its death? How can you not understand the proof/disproof dichotomy or the burden of proof principle and yet claim to be a scientist?

    There's only so long I can keep hearing "but you can't disprove it" every time your logic is shown to be not twisted but completely absent. It's like talking to a child who can't understand how the presents appear under the tree if not for the flying reindeers. And yes, I can't disprove them either.
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    What you are denying is now being theoretically under study by quantum machenics experts as existence of consciousness. This theory is as credible as "multiverse" but the Scientology today has failed to accept it so far as it breaks down the very foundations physics we believe in. So yeah, the only argument behind a total denial of life after death is that it doesn't fit with what you know NOW. So it's more convenient to deny it .. Occam's razor. A blind denial is as ridiculous as a blind belief.
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    Tbh even this doesn't disprove what mhopkins said. There are still many laws of this world that we need to define, and I do believe that our energy has to be channelled into something. As you said, spirituality is something you experience as an Atheist and spirituality can take you far as far as experiencing yourself leaving your body, I don't think that can be explained by nerve impulses or hormones. There are lots of stories about out of body experiences and people remembering their past lives.

    I know that I personally have experienced that thing where you could have sworn you have met someone before and it turns out you've never known them at all, I like to think sometimes that there must be more that meets the eye.
    The burden of proof rests on the person making the extraordinary claim. There is zero evidence for a soul and it is certainly not needed to explain our feelings and emotions, these can all be explain by neuroscience and hormones.

    NDEs are questionable and none have been scientifically verified. They are essentially personal anecdotes which hold no weight in the quest to objectively and definitively prove something.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The burden of proof rests on the person making the extraordinary claim. There is zero evidence for a soul and it is certainly not needed to explain our feelings and emotions, these can all be explain by neuroscience and hormones.

    NDEs are questionable and none have been scientifically verified. They are essentially personal anecdotes which hold no weight in the quest to objectively and definitively prove something.
    http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/NDERF_NDEs.htm

    http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html

    Well just something because hasn't been proved yet, doesn't mean it won't ever be (I am not specifically talking about a higher deity, but this goes anything really. This planet has billions and billions of years to go yet, there will me many new discoveries in the future) and because NDE's are a personal experience doesn't take anything away from it being an experience that could be scientifically proven.

    I don't see how NDE's being a personal anecdote equates to them not being any use for proving anything later on. Well, really, what I am saying is, who are you to say that? As I said, the earth has been around 4.5 billion years and it's got a way to go yet so you don't know what will be proved in the future.
 
 
 
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