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    (Original post by RichE)
    Where'd you find the data btw?
    Freedom of Information request to the University of Oxford. If you want to see the spreadsheet they originally sent me, you're welcome (it includes a few years of data, wheras my other spreadsheet is based purely on 2010): https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hPMHc&hl=en_GB
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    (Original post by nightmare91)
    But only mature students apply to Harris Manchester so the rate should be still the same, shouldn't it?
    Harris Manchester is for mature students only, yes. However, it's not the case that mature students can only apply to Harris Manchester. As the stats demonstrate, mature students are welcome to apply to any college, but are frequently (some say almost inevitably) reallocated or pooled to HMC if it offers the subject. As the stats also show, the reverse doesn't tend to happen. HMC is uniquely restricted by its 'mature only rule' such that, in order to fill its places while maintaining Oxford standards, it is always going to be interested in strong mature candidates who originally applied to other colleges. This may help to explain the relatively low % of applicants who both apply to HMC and are accepted there (which was the stat under discussion; the 12% one).

    I could explain this point in more detail, and there are additional factors, but it's a bit of a long story! Not sure if you are a potential mature applicant or were simply making a point regarding the stats? If the former, by all means PM me if I can be of any help
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    (Original post by shoshin)
    Harris Manchester is for mature students only, yes. However, it's not the case that mature students can only apply to Harris Manchester. As the stats demonstrate, mature students are welcome to apply to any college, but are frequently (some say almost inevitably) reallocated or pooled to HMC if it offers the subject. As the stats also show, the reverse doesn't tend to happen. HMC is uniquely restricted by its 'mature only rule' such that, in order to fill its places while maintaining Oxford standards, it is always going to be interested in strong mature candidates who originally applied to other colleges. This may help to explain the relatively low % of applicants who both apply to HMC and are accepted there (which was the stat under discussion; the 12% one).

    I could explain this pont in more detail, and there are additional factors, but it's a bit of a long story! Not sure if you are a potential mature applicant or were simply making a point regarding the stats? If the former, by all means PM me if I can be of any help
    I'm not sure that does explain the statistics. They say that no HMC applicants got a place at any Oxford college in 2010. The source of the stats says that over four admissions cycles only one offer was made by another college to someone who originally applied to HMC. Why would that be?
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    and thus this thread finds itself squarely in spreadsheet limbo.
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    (Original post by shoshin)
    Harris Manchester is for mature students only, yes. However, it's not the case that mature students can only apply to Harris Manchester. As the stats demonstrate, mature students are welcome to apply to any college, but are frequently (some say almost inevitably) reallocated or pooled to HMC if it offers the subject. As the stats also show, the reverse doesn't tend to happen. HMC is uniquely restricted by its 'mature only rule' such that, in order to fill its places while maintaining Oxford standards, it is always going to be interested in strong mature candidates who originally applied to other colleges. This may help to explain the relatively low % of applicants who both apply to HMC and are accepted there (which was the stat under discussion; the 12% one).

    I could explain this point in more detail, and there are additional factors, but it's a bit of a long story! Not sure if you are a potential mature applicant or were simply making a point regarding the stats? If the former, by all means PM me if I can be of any help
    EDITED, I misinterpreted first , see below But no, I am not a mature student . It just interested me why HM has such a low acceptance rate.
    (Original post by fluteflute)
    I'm not sure that does explain the statistics. They say that no HMC applicants got a place at any Oxford college in 2010. The source of the stats says that over four admissions cycles only one offer was made by another college to someone who originally applied to HMC. Why would that be?
    This though^^
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    That mature applicant thing gets me. They should just say old. That way it would be a prerequisite I'd actually have a chance of meeting someday
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    (Original post by Eldedu)
    That mature applicant thing gets me. They should just say old. That way it would be a prerequisite I'd actually have a chance of meeting someday
    Hahaha this one made me laugh
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    (Original post by nightmare91)
    But you are saying "it's not the case that mature students can only apply to Harris Manchester". So I am assuming EVERYONE can apply to Harris Manchester? As you stated they have a policy that only mature students are accepted, so why would someone apply to HM if they know they will not be accepted anyway?
    You've misunderstood there

    "it's not the case that mature students can only apply to Harris Manchester" = "mature students don't have to apply to Harris Manchester"
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    (Original post by fluteflute)
    You've misunderstood there

    "it's not the case that mature students can only apply to Harris Manchester" = "mature students don't have to apply to Harris Manchester"
    Oops my bad! But fortunetely doesn't change my conclusion
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    (Original post by Eldedu)
    and thus this thread finds itself squarely in spreadsheet limbo.
    Everyone loves spreadsheets

    [Well, as a Computer Scientist and mathsy person I do...]
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    (Original post by fluteflute)
    I'm not sure that does explain the statistics. They say that no HMC applicants got a place at any Oxford college in 2010. The source of the stats says that over four admissions cycles only one offer was made by another college to someone who originally applied to HMC. Why would that be?
    I assume this is because, a mature-only college with a certain amount of places per year, and a relatively low amount of applicants, there is no reason for them to pool people deserving of an offer to other colleges as they can just directly accept (or reject) them while taking 'imports' from other colleges to fill the remaining places.
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    (Original post by nightmare91)
    Oops my bad! But fortunetely doesn't change my conclusion
    Yeah the 12% is a bit strange to me as well.

    Unless a lot of the mature applicants who apply aren't really "serious contenders", just doing it to see if they get in, or withdraw their application, etc? That's a complete guess based on absolutely nothing though.
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    (Original post by fluteflute)
    Yeah the 12% is a bit strange to me as well.

    Unless a lot of the mature applicants who apply aren't really "serious contenders", just doing it to see if they get in, or withdraw their application, etc? That's a complete guess based on absolutely nothing though.
    I actually had always thought the exact opposite, that the acceptance rate at mature colleges would be higher because most students are under 21 which would make me conclude that the competition is way lower... But I guess there are a lot mature students...It's really strange though...
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    (Original post by fluteflute)
    Everyone loves spreadsheets

    [Well, as a Computer Scientist and mathsy person I do...]
    Figures. I won't lie, easy-to-interpret and ready-made spreadsheets are pretty great.

    But when it's 4 am, you have 2 hours before you leave for school, you have the technological IQ of a lemur and bloody excel refuses to be any help with your physics coursework, spreadsheets get a lot less lovable.
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    (Original post by fluteflute)
    I'm not sure that does explain the statistics. They say that no HMC applicants got a place at any Oxford college in 2010. The source of the stats says that over four admissions cycles only one offer was made by another college to someone who originally applied to HMC. Why would that be?
    You mean at any college other than HMC itself? I'd hoped that I had sort of explained this, but it doesn't read too well does it?

    HMC is restricted by its 'over 21s only' rule such that it has to choose from a tiny total number of applicants compared with the other colleges. HMC also offers a restricted range of courses; for example, History & Politics but not History only. It also has to ensure that it only accepts candidates of the same calibre as other colleges; it will leave places empty rather than compromise on this. There just isn't going to be a great surfeit of such high quality candidates over and above those accepted by HMC, bearing in mind that such candidates would also have been free to apply directly to other colleges. Even if there were some, they would then be in a tiny minority in competition with other reallocated or pooled candidates.

    As I mentioned, there may be additional marginal factors in the case of mature applicants, but I woudn't want to derail the thread more than I have already My original reply to you was just to say congrats regarding your work on the spreadsheet. I only mentioned HMC because it wasn't clear that you were aware that it would in any event not be an option for most of the thread regulars.
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    (Original post by shoshin)
    You mean at any college other than HMC itself? I'd hoped that I had sort of explained this, but it doesn't read too well does it?

    HMC is restricted by its 'over 21s only' rule such that it has to choose from a tiny total number of applicants compared with the other colleges. HMC also offers a restricted range of courses; for example, History & Politics but not History only. It also has to ensure that it only accepts candidates of the same calibre as other colleges; it will leave places empty rather than compromise on this. There just isn't going to be a great surfeit of such high quality candidates over and above those accepted by HMC, bearing in mind that such candidates would also have been free to apply directly to other colleges. Even if there were some, they would then be in a tiny minority in competition with other reallocated or pooled candidates.

    As I mentioned, there may be additional marginal factors in the case of mature applicants, but I woudn't want to derail the thread more than I have already My original reply to you was just to say congrats regarding your work on the spreadsheet. I only mentioned HMC because it wasn't clear that you were aware that it would in any event not be an option for most of the thread regulars.
    Btw I read that you are studying at Warwick currently?
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    (Original post by cynthialf)
    I assume this is because, a mature-only college with a certain amount of places per year, and a relatively low amount of applicants, there is no reason for them to pool people deserving of an offer to other colleges as they can just directly accept (or reject) them while taking 'imports' from other colleges to fill the remaining places.
    Yes, that's how I wish I'd have put it
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    (Original post by nightmare91)
    Btw I read that you are studying at Warwick currently?
    I'm officially still a (part time, mature/old) undergrad at Warwick, having completed a year there in 2009/10. I was granted a temporary withdrawal for 2010/11 and applied to Oxford last October (not to HMC though; they don't offer my subject).
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    (Original post by fluteflute)
    Freedom of Information request to the University of Oxford. If you want to see the spreadsheet they originally sent me, you're welcome (it includes a few years of data, wheras my other spreadsheet is based purely on 2010): https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hPMHc&hl=en_GB
    What on earth happened to Brasenose between 2008 and 2009? (467 applicants rising suddenly to 755.)
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    (Original post by BJack)
    What on earth happened to Brasenose between 2008 and 2009? (467 applicants rising suddenly to 755.)
    Interesting observation there! Brasenose must be doing something right...

    I thought I'd run some calculations... so taking only the 2007 and 2010 figures (taking just two random years means you can't read huge amounts into these figures, but..) for direct applications:
    • Overall Oxford saw a 20% increase in direct college applications
    • Relative to what you'd expect given a 20% increase in applications, Brasenose saw a whooping increase of 118%!
    • Harris Manchester was next, but a long way behind, with 44% increase
    • St John's, Univ and Balliol are at about 20%
    • Another five have at least 8% relative growth
    • Ten colleges have approximately static relative growth
    • Twelve colleges are getting less and less of a share of the applicants
    • PPHs are the worst off, with slowly declining applicant numbers, but relatively a rapid 46% relative drop!
    • Bear in mind a percentage drop doesn't always mean a decrease in actual numbers though. Christ church went up two applicants, but it had 25% less applicants than you'd expect it to if it had risen in line with the university average.


    My figures/calculations: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...NiMVE&hl=en_GB
 
 
 
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