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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Your being led down the garden path by people who believe that Russia wants no more territory and that ISIS will simply make peace if we are nice to them.

    I fear that for some of the sane Labourites, entering this extremist coalition will go down in history as a dark act.
    ISIS feels persecuted by us!!! If we attack them there will be massive civilian casualties on all sides and it will create a more fractured society for us because they can accuse the west of hating Muslims.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    The defence minister is liberal thank you very much...
    I just cannot see how someone who believes we should abolish all forms of violence can be the minister of using violence against other countries. How does that work?
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    Are we (labour) in the minority?
    No. Your actually occupying Green seats because they were unable to fill them so your about the same.

    The liberals are in theory centrists but they've proven to be as effective at moderating the coalition as a blind person at a shooting range.
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    I just cannot see how someone who believes we should abolish all forms of violence can be the minister of using violence against other countries. How does that work?
    Ask your leader, he appointed her. And basically we belive that we should not strike until stricken. Otherwise they can claim the moral high ground.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    No. Your actually occupying Green seats because they were unable to fill them so your about the same.

    The liberals are in theory centrists but they've proven to be as effective at moderating the coalition as a blind person at a shooting range.
    I thought we were supposed to promote the real world values of our Parties? Neither labour nor the liberals are pacifist. Miliband even supports Cameron in foreign intervention irl.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    ISIS feels persecuted by us!!! If we attack them there will be massive civilian casualties on all sides and it will create a more fractured society for us because they can accuse the west of hating Muslims.
    Regardless of military action against them, if they spread then how can you not expect them to launch terrorist attacks against them.
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    I thought we were supposed to promote the real world values of our Parties? Neither labour nor the liberals are pacifist. Miliband even supports Cameron in foreign intervention irl.
    That's not at all what we ate meant to do, this house is about what we belive in not what our IRL counterparts do. The MHoC parties are really quite different to the IRL ones...
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    I thought we were supposed to promote the real world values of our Parties? Neither labour nor the liberals are pacifist. Miliband even supports Cameron in foreign intervention irl.
    Being 30 years younger than the average member we do tend to be a little different although not huge.

    Unfortunately, this term has been a dark one. The Libertarians and Socialists have collapsed. The Greens have moved to the extremist left. The left of the Liberals have silenced the Orange Bookers. Your own party is fighting an infection and appears unable to hold the Greens back.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Ask your leader, he appointed her. And basically we belive that we should not strike until stricken. Otherwise they can claim the moral high ground.
    In no circumstance do ISIS claim the high ground after what they've done. The moral thing to do is to absolutely destroy them, so that they'll not be able to field a fighting force for generations. The only thing stopping us from doing that are practical considerations.
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    I thought we were supposed to promote the real world values of our Parties? Neither labour nor the liberals are pacifist. Miliband even supports Cameron in foreign intervention irl.
    http://www.liberal.org.uk/policies/peace.htm

    It's not explicitly pacifist (neither are we as a party), but it isn't far off, and in the long term seeks the "abolition of national armies and armements". It also describes the Iraq War as "wrong and illegal". I think we're pretty much in-line with real life there.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Regardless of military action against them, if they spread then how can you not expect them to launch terrorist attacks against them.
    If they pose a significant risk then we interfere right now the region is too unstable that once we destroy one organisation another pops up to replace it but they are more skilled and better armed. An evacuation of all surrounding areas followed by a fixed border to prevent outside support/ ISIS growth and then letting them collapse in on themselves or run out of weapons would be better.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    ISIS feels persecuted by us!!! If we attack them there will be massive civilian casualties on all sides and it will create a more fractured society for us because they can accuse the west of hating Muslims.
    I'm done.
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    (Original post by Green_Pink)
    http://www.liberal.org.uk/policies/peace.htm

    It's not explicitly pacifist (neither are we as a party), but it isn't far off, and in the long term seeks the "abolition of national armies and armements". It also describes the Iraq War as "wrong and illegal". I think we're pretty much in-line with real life there.
    Pacifism - Taking the moral high ground while innocent Arabs are slaughtered.
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    In no circumstance do ISIS claim the high ground after what they've done. The moral thing to do is to absolutely destroy them, so that they'll not be able to field a fighting force for generations. The only thing stopping us from doing that are practical considerations.
    If we destroy them they claim to be persecuted by the 'Muslim hating' west and draw a lot of global sympathy. Also destroying them would create a generations long war, that is what always happens.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Being 30 years younger than the average member we do tend to be a little different although not huge.

    Unfortunately, this term has been a dark one. The Libertarians and Socialists have collapsed. The Greens have moved to the extremist left. The left of the Liberals have silenced the Orange Bookers. Your own party is fighting an infection and appears unable to hold the Greens back.
    Elaborate?
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    (Original post by Aph)
    If we destroy them they claim to be persecuted by the 'Muslim hating' west and draw a lot of global sympathy. Also destroying them would create a generations long war, that is what always happens.
    I said that practical considerations would get in the way; in principle, destroying the attackers who are trying to slaughter their way through the Middle East and Europe is the right thing to do.
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    Elaborate?
    You have members within who revere Michael Foot than Kinnock, let alone Blair or Miliband.
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    I said that practical considerations would get in the way; in principle, destroying the attackers who are trying to slaughter their way through the Middle East and Europe is the right thing to do.
    They haven't attacked us though, they are only attacking the Middle East. Like I said, create and isolation zone around them let them implode
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    (Original post by Aph)
    They haven't attacked us though, they are only attacking the Middle East. Like I said, create and isolation zone around them let them implode
    They're too powerful to implode. They're literally redrawing the map. How many innocent will die? We at least need to continue with the airstrikes.
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    They're too powerful to implode. They're literally redrawing the map. How many innocent will die? We at least need to continue with the airstrikes.
    No, I mean hold them under siege, evac everyone, create a mile exclusion zone around current territory past which foriegn forces are posted making sure nothing gets in or comes out, and then they will run out of weapons or food or just start killing eachother. An all out war would kill too many innocents and airstrikes also kill innocents too.
 
 
 
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