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    (Original post by ibn Mas'ud (R.A))
    It's valentine's day :zomg:

    Lol

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    In the name of Allah, the most beneficent, the most merciful.

    Arguably one of the clearest proofs for the existence of Allah swt (God) is consciousness. There are many proofs which solidly confirm his existence using rational deduction through premises and conclusions with which if one accepts the premises, they must accept the conclusion.

    However human conciousness to me has always been another very convincing proof. At the moment i am going through neurology notes from university. We're learning about pharmacology, about anatomy, about the dorsal columns, spinothalamic tract, corticospinal tract, reflexes, detailed synaptic science combining pharmacy. We've dissected brains , looked at how everything works, even touching on human conciousness, parts of the brain active when planning a motor movement etc

    All i know is , no matter how advanced our understanding of the brain can get, no matter how much we will map out, no matter how sophisticated our technology, it will never be sufficient to give a pure materialist explanation to how you 'feel' pain.

    Your lateral spinothalamic tract is essentially a sensory pathway from skin to the thalamus, transmitting the nervous impulses, enabling your primary somatosensory cortex to register that pain , process it and engage in further actions.

    You can explain about skin surface receptors causing, acetyl choline being released inbetween synapses, binding to post-synaptic receptors, the deccussation of nerves and how pain in the mid thoracic region is ipsilateral or contralateral.

    No matter how advanced you can get in explaining these procceses, linking them up, you simply will never find a materialist explanation as to why fire 'hurts'. You can give me the physical pathway, you can go so deep into the mechanisms, but movements and transmissions of signals, reactions and the like, will never actually lead to the 'agony' or 'sensation' of pain. It may cause it, trigger it, trigger a reaction , trigger the reflex arc, but it will never explain that subjective and immaterial ability to 'feel' the 'raw' feeling of pain.

    This is not 'God of the Gaps'. God of the Gaps is a little bit of a straw man argument in my view anyway. When we say God is the one who keeps the stars, the planets, the sun in their places and causes them to rotate, it does not mean since science has formulated equations and the law of gravity or the theory of relativity formulated, that we then say 'oh, it wasn't God all a long'. Actually it indeed was God, who fined tuned the cosmological constant, and created the laws by which with his power exert their forces. It was never God of the gaps.

    Either way, the argument from consciousness postulates that no matter how advanced our understanding will be , there will never be a physical materialist explanation to explain the immaterial sensation. The lack of any way for someone to explain the 'feeling' of 'raw' pain, and how such an immaterial subjective sensation can be felt, using only materialist explanations leads me to believe there can never be any possible explanation.

    It is indeed, the 'Materialist of the gaps' argument to propose immaterial subjective sensations arise from purely material causes.

    I highly recommend these works which flesh our the arguments properly, seeing i have given this topic a very , very brief introduction. I agree with most, but not every single one of Hamzah's arguments with regards to this topic. Before anyone ever even had a chance to 'indoctrinate me' even from the tender age of 13, this has been one of many supporting arguments for Gods existence, in addition to the concrete irrefutable arguments.

    http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/2101/co...t-assumptions/





    EDIT: By the way, this is known as the 'hard problem of conciousness' because scientists know that they will never be able to explain an immaterial subjective reality of pain and sensation felt, by inanimate bouncing around of molecules and substances in pathways.

    This problem has racked the minds of so many, that some have even decided to come out and even deny consciousness exists!
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    O Prophet Muhammed pbuh, answer me this please

    1. Why on earth did you, historically ascertained as truth, live amongst people as truthful and trustworthy for fourty years, and if you were a lier, decide to bring up one of the biggest lies humanity has made? Is that the psychology of a lier?

    2. How on earth, O Prophet, did you manage to orate what was compiled into the Quran, classed as the peak of arabic, unreachable not on subjective grounds, but literary grounds, from rehetoric, use of linguistic devices, power of language, force, literary form, so suddenly , and kept this high standard that was matchless through 23 years of public prophethood, despite wars, set backs, trials and stresses?

    3. I might even ask , you had never read a book or wrote anything before. You were not even a famed poet, even if an illeterate man could have learned poetry orally. So why did you secretly not show the world your linguistic prowess for so long? And when you did, it did not even fall into poetry, it was matchless and the Quran's challenge to produce something of equal literary merit historically could not be matched by people who knew the language the best, who if it was matchable, and their wealth and power was at stake, should have gone to extreme strengths to disprove you and falsify you this way!

    4. Why O Muhammed pbuh, you were offered wealth , women, money to stop preaching. You were married to one of the most richest ladies of Arabia , the blessed woman of paradise, Lady Khadija, yet, you decided to give your wealth, risk your life, and flee to Medina?

    5. Muhammed pbuh! You are being labelled a peadophile and one who gave into his sexual lusts! Despite infact, marrying an older woman Khadija, for the better part of your youth, and not engaging with woman until 25 who was Khadija. Despite O Muhammed pbuh, living in a time where there was a different culture, where society was brought up differently, where infact, a man of lusts would not have married old women which you did, nor divorced women. The marriage to Aisha was with her consent, she reached the age of sexual maturity, it was a different society and the marriage was done for a political alliance. Yet Muhammed pbuh, when Aisha deceived you about the Honey, you only showed her love and thought to forbid yourself from what you like for the sake of your life, even until Allah swt revealed to you, that why do you forbid yourself from what he has made permissible to you? You were offered woman many times before! A man of lust would have given in, rather than sacrificing all he had.

    6. You won many battles, despite being in the minority. It is a coincidence your bravest warrior Ali Ibn Abi Talib a.s, your cousin and succesor was the most ferocious in defending you. Is it a coincidence even the UN has made the words of Ali a.s part of their advise to the middle east? I want to focus on you and not Ali a.s, but Ali a.s was raised by you and even more proof of your prophethood pbuh.

    7. Muhammed pbuh, tell me, How on earth did you know the scriptures of the Jews and Christians so well? Not only did you know their scriptures so thoroughly well, you even corrected it! It is so clear as daylight their scriptures were altered, and you alerted them to this , something some deny. You told them Jesus pbuh preached monotheism and not partial divinity! You recounted beautiful stories of Prophets pbuh. You went into so much depth that you even named the individual of Pharoh as Haman , which archeologically we know to be true, something you could possibly not have known, seeing as the bible calls 'Haman' as an entirely different person not linked to Pharoh. You use King and Pharoh so accurately.

    8. Muhammed pbuh. Forgive me, but many would have called you a deluded man, and many did, when right after the romans were crushingly beaten, you made a prophecy so convincingly that within 3-9 years the romans would be decisive in victory. Muhammed pbuh, the persians Not only crushed the romans, they became stronger, and stronger, and stronger. It was infact, considered so unlikely for the romans to ever bounce back, yet you even gave a time frame where this would occur. Do you not realize had such a ridiculously bold prophecy not come to pass, you would have been falsified as a prophet of God and the people against you wanted this so much? Would a serial lier even take a risk like this?

    9. Muhammed pbuh, you made prophecy after prophecy, victory of wars, all came to pass. The Quran even prophecizes it would be preserved, and it is! It is one of the only religious book so well preserved. How, when it was revealed over 23 years did it not even get a single interpolation and is the EXACT Quran revealed?

    10. Muhammed pbuh, Your Quran does not contain 'scientific' miracles, but why is it so coincidental, when translated within the limited scope of translations of the arabic language, does it yield such profound statements? This is not for one Odd case, but a plethora of cases!

    11. You gave rights to all faiths under the constitution of Medina.

    12. You taught prayer, fasting, charity, kindness to parents, orphans. no compulsion of religion. You taught patience, chastity. You taught us to reflect, question and ponder, and virtues and morals i can not even transcribe due to time.

    13. Your Ahlulbayt a.s were sublime. Is it a coincidence Hussain a.s, a man who has inspired Mahatma Ghandi, a man whom even charles Dickens lays tribute to, your beloved grandson and guide of the ummah after you and his brother and father, gives up his life fighting the tyrant Yazid against his evil and corruption!

    Muhammed pbuh, i have many things yet to ask you, more profound statements. But i have one thing i want to say, if you have lied Muhammed pbuh, then no-one has ever told the truth.
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    Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.


    Verse (60:8)

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    "The best place to be is to be in someone’s du’a because they talk to Allah about you, and Allah is the best listener."

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    61:8to top

    Sahih International
    They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.
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    What's our religion's view on valentines day if anyone knows?
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    (Original post by Kadak)
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    What's our religion's view on valentines day if anyone knows?
    Lol I'd like to see justifications for this one.

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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Lol I'd like to see justifications for this one.

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    What do you mean by justifications? I'm not making any point, my question is an open one.
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    (Original post by Kadak)
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    What's our religion's view on valentines day if anyone knows?
    Every scholarly comment I've seen on it has always been negative and said it is not allowed. Normal reasons have been that people use it as a pathway to commit forbidden acts such as zina, boyfriend/girlfriend relationships etc...
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    (Original post by ibn Mas'ud (R.A))
    It's valentine's day :zomg:

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    Professor Hans-Heinrich Reckeweg, M.D said: "The consumption of pork gradually chokes the connective tissue with mucous; in addition, it is so enrinched with fats that someone whose diet consists of much pork, outwardly soon ressembles the animal he has eaten. We all know the saying "You are what you eat."

    LOL.




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    Valentines is not a celebration celebrated in Islam.

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    (Original post by Kadak)
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    What do you mean by justifications? I'm not making any point, my question is an open one.
    I know, I'm not targeting you. I mean those who try and defend it.

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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    They say Muslims aren't standing up to ISIS.
    What an amazing woman-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v2aJI9_ymU
    SubhanAllah. What a touching vid. May Allah reward her.

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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    In the name of Allah, the most beneficent, the most merciful.

    Arguably one of the clearest proofs for the existence of Allah swt (God) is consciousness. There are many proofs which solidly confirm his existence using rational deduction through premises and conclusions with which if one accepts the premises, they must accept the conclusion.

    However human conciousness to me has always been another very convincing proof. At the moment i am going through neurology notes from university. We're learning about pharmacology, about anatomy, about the dorsal columns, spinothalamic tract, corticospinal tract, reflexes, detailed synaptic science combining pharmacy. We've dissected brains , looked at how everything works, even touching on human conciousness, parts of the brain active when planning a motor movement etc

    All i know is , no matter how advanced our understanding of the brain can get, no matter how much we will map out, no matter how sophisticated our technology, it will never be sufficient to give a pure materialist explanation to how you 'feel' pain.

    Your lateral spinothalamic tract is essentially a sensory pathway from skin to the thalamus, transmitting the nervous impulses, enabling your primary somatosensory cortex to register that pain , process it and engage in further actions.

    You can explain about skin surface receptors causing, acetyl choline being released inbetween synapses, binding to post-synaptic receptors, the deccussation of nerves and how pain in the mid thoracic region is ipsilateral or contralateral.

    No matter how advanced you can get in explaining these procceses, linking them up, you simply will never find a materialist explanation as to why fire 'hurts'. You can give me the physical pathway, you can go so deep into the mechanisms, but movements and transmissions of signals, reactions and the like, will never actually lead to the 'agony' or 'sensation' of pain. It may cause it, trigger it, trigger a reaction , trigger the reflex arc, but it will never explain that subjective and immaterial ability to 'feel' the 'raw' feeling of pain.

    This is not 'God of the Gaps'. God of the Gaps is a little bit of a straw man argument in my view anyway. When we say God is the one who keeps the stars, the planets, the sun in their places and causes them to rotate, it does not mean since science has formulated equations and the law of gravity or the theory of relativity formulated, that we then say 'oh, it wasn't God all a long'. Actually it indeed was God, who fined tuned the cosmological constant, and created the laws by which with his power exert their forces. It was never God of the gaps.

    Either way, the argument from consciousness postulates that no matter how advanced our understanding will be , there will never be a physical materialist explanation to explain the immaterial sensation. The lack of any way for someone to explain the 'feeling' of 'raw' pain, and how such an immaterial subjective sensation can be felt, using only materialist explanations leads me to believe there can never be any possible explanation.

    It is indeed, the 'Materialist of the gaps' argument to propose immaterial subjective sensations arise from purely material causes.

    I highly recommend these works which flesh our the arguments properly, seeing i have given this topic a very , very brief introduction. I agree with most, but not every single one of Hamzah's arguments with regards to this topic. Before anyone ever even had a chance to 'indoctrinate me' even from the tender age of 13, this has been one of many supporting arguments for Gods existence, in addition to the concrete irrefutable arguments.

    http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/2101/co...t-assumptions/





    EDIT: By the way, this is known as the 'hard problem of conciousness' because scientists know that they will never be able to explain an immaterial subjective reality of pain and sensation felt, by inanimate bouncing around of molecules and substances in pathways.

    This problem has racked the minds of so many, that some have even decided to come out and even deny consciousness exists!
    Nice post. I just wanted to ask, wouldn't it be possible that scientists might discover how we feel pain later in the future
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    (Original post by beautifulxxx)
    Professor Hans-Heinrich Reckeweg, M.D said: "The consumption of pork gradually chokes the connective tissue with mucous; in addition, it is so enrinched with fats that someone whose diet consists of much pork, outwardly soon ressembles the animal he has eaten. We all know the saying "You are what you eat."

    LOL.
    Please tell me that you don't actually believe this. It has absolutely no foundation in fact and no supporting science. Reckeweg was a homeopathicist whose company was prosecuted for spurious health claims.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Every scholarly comment I've seen on it has always been negative and said it is not allowed. Normal reasons have been that people use it as a pathway to commit forbidden acts such as zina, boyfriend/girlfriend relationships etc...
    What about married couples?
 
 
 
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