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No immediate swingeing cuts under Tories... watch

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    (Original post by L i b)
    Ultimately though, it's because few people can see anything worse than the present government. It is so utterly disconnected from the public that it has become something of a running joke.
    Isn't that exactly what people thought of the Tories in '97?

    (not trying to take sides, just in response to the post you were replying to it is the reason but not a completely valid one)
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    Backtracking are we?
    I personally have no problem with politicians changing their mind on policies, indeed the 'flip-flopping' culture is damaging for politics I think, we will end up with good rhetoricians with little real political strategy a la Blair if we attack every change of mind. But the problem I have with Cameron is he forms his entire alternative approach around immediate cuts to rescue the economy, and now he's just sidestepped all of that, how can we take him seriously.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Isn't that exactly what people thought of the Tories in '97?

    (not trying to take sides, just in response to the post you were replying to it is the reason but not a completely valid one)
    Not to the same extent, I don't think. Indeed, I've heard quite a few people from older generations comment that a government has never been held in quite such ridicule, if not overt contempt, as the present one.

    But yes, it's somewhat similar. If anything, I'd compare things more to the Tories in 1992. If Labour managed to win this election, it would not do them any good whatsoever.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Not to the same extent, I don't think. Indeed, I've heard quite a few people from older generations comment that a government has never been held in quite such ridicule, if not overt contempt, as the present one.

    But yes, it's somewhat similar. If anything, I'd compare things more to the Tories in 1992. If Labour managed to win this election, it would not do them any good whatsoever.
    To me this feels very much like Major after '95. Obviously the incoming Gov will be seen in higher regard but they all end up like this, out of ideas and with too much baggage. We'll see in a few months if the swing is bigger than '97 or not.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I've heard quite a few people from older generations comment that a government has never been held in quite such ridicule, if not overt contempt, as the present one.
    I think your overlooking the pure hatred that most of the country still have for Mrs.Thatcher,and for what she done to this country.
    I don't think that is comparable to the relative contempt people hold for the current incumbents,however shockingly awful they are.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    To me this feels very much like Major after '95. Obviously the incoming Gov will be seen in higher regard but they all end up like this, out of ideas and with too much baggage. We'll see in a few months if the swing is bigger than '97 or not.
    It won't be, however much Cameron tries, he won't be able to shake the Etonian image, and for some reason he's scared ******** of announcing any policies.
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    (Original post by Krakatoa)
    I think your overlooking the pure hatred that most of the country still have for Mrs.Thatcher,and for what she done to this country.
    I don't think that is comparable to the relative contempt people hold for the current incumbents,however shockingly awful they are.
    There is still quite a lot of "support" for Mrs Thatcher.
    She was voted as one of the Great Britons (certainly not if she is hated by all)?

    It could be that though they dislike her, they recognise what she did was drastically needed.
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    (Original post by RooKnight)
    It won't be, however much Cameron tries, he won't be able to shake the Etonian image, and for some reason he's scared ******** of announcing any policies.
    I completely agree, just Lib seemed to suggest otherwise.

    Its impressing me recently how many people who must have been five when Blair came to power have been saying things like 'labour is the worst/least popular government ever' 'Brown is the worst/least popular PM ever' whereas the mood in the country before the last election was at least as bad. However, that was a while after a recession when the country was in the early stages of a boom, whereas now we are still in the midst of a bigger recession.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    There is still quite a lot of "support" for Mrs Thatcher.
    She was voted as one of the Great Britons (certainly not if she is hated by all)?

    It could be that though they dislike her, they recognise what she did was drastically needed.
    Wow that really reflects nationwide public opinion doesn't it, of people who lived under her. The same list had Enoch Powell on it,so says alot about what a 'Great Briton' is.
    Of course there is still support for her,south of the Watford Gap,where a large proporption benefited from her policies.
    But for the working classes,her extreme implementation of neo-liberalism caused the destruction of job opportunities for an entire generation,which is still felt today,she wrecked communities forever,and was a key part of the movement which pushed through the economic liberalisation which was the root cause of the global recession thirty years later.
    There may be many things that are wrong with the current incumbents,I mean they kept the Thatcherite flame alight,but the contempt and widespread hatred of one governments policies on the same scale as it was for Thatcher will not be seen any time soon.
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    (Original post by Krakatoa)
    Wow that really reflects nationwide public opinion doesn't it, of people who lived under her. The same list had Enoch Powell on it,so says alot about what a 'Great Briton' is.
    Of course there is still support for her,south of the Watford Gap,where a large proporption benefited from her policies.
    But for the working classes,her extreme implementation of neo-liberalism caused the destruction of job opportunities for an entire generation,which is still felt today,she wrecked communities forever,and was a key part of the movement which pushed through the economic liberalisation which was the root cause of the global recession thirty years later.
    There may be many things that are wrong with the current incumbents,I mean they kept the Thatcherite flame alight,but the contempt and widespread hatred of one governments policies on the same scale as it was for Thatcher will not be seen any time soon.
    You said: I think your overlooking the pure hatred that most of the country still have for

    I don't think that is true. Can you prove that that statement is true, or did you just make that up?

    Also don't make the assumption that all working class individuals hated her. Some absolutely loved her.
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    (Original post by Krakatoa)
    Wow that really reflects nationwide public opinion doesn't it, of people who lived under her. The same list had Enoch Powell on it,so says alot about what a 'Great Briton' is.
    Of course there is still support for her,south of the Watford Gap,where a large proporption benefited from her policies.
    But for the working classes,her extreme implementation of neo-liberalism caused the destruction of job opportunities for an entire generation,which is still felt today,she wrecked communities forever,and was a key part of the movement which pushed through the economic liberalisation which was the root cause of the global recession thirty years later.
    There may be many things that are wrong with the current incumbents,I mean they kept the Thatcherite flame alight,but the contempt and widespread hatred of one governments policies on the same scale as it was for Thatcher will not be seen any time soon.
    Enoch Powell was perhaps the first conservative to embrace libertarian, liberal or Thatcherite (whatever you want to call them) policies. He had a very radical and new approach and almost became the leader of the party - he just happened to be incredibly wrong on black immigrants - and I definitely don't support him on that; but Churchill was equally opposed to immigration and blacks himself and it never stops people from thinking he was great because his other actions outweighed the negatives.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Also don't make the assumption that all working class individuals hated her. Some absolutely loved her.
    Indeed, private council housing was a massive hit with the working class.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    You said: I think your overlooking the pure hatred that most of the country still have for

    I don't think that is true. Can you prove that that statement is true, or did you just make that up?

    Also don't make the assumption that all working class individuals hated her. Some absolutely loved her.

    I said it in response to a statement that Gordon Brown's Government is the one that has been held in the most contempt,ever. My point was is that the pure hatred and contempt held by alot of the country against Thatcher is unlikely to have changed now,especially as the institutional changes made by her to liberalise the economy was brought to its knee's eigteen months ago.

    And its not so much an assumption,of course there are working class people who loved her,I know many who do,but her policies were a direct attack against the working classes,so its not an extremely irrational statement to make.
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    (Original post by Krakatoa)
    I said it in response to a statement that Gordon Brown's Government is the one that has been held in the most contempt,ever. My point was is that the pure hatred and contempt held by alot of the country against Thatcher is unlikely to have changed now,especially as the institutional changes made by her to liberalise the economy was brought to its knee's eigteen months ago.

    And its not so much an assumption,of course there are working class people who loved her,I know many who do,but her policies were a direct attack against the working classes,so its not an extremely irrational statement to make.
    A number of points

    1/ Selling council homes to those working class people was a direct attack against them was it?
    2/ She hasn't been in power for more than 15 years. The Labour Government could have changed it if they wanted to. They went further than she did, thus get the blame.
    3/ Still no evidence?
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    A number of points

    1/ Selling council homes to those working class people was a direct attack against them was it?
    2/ She hasn't been in power for more than 15 years. The Labour Government could have changed it if they wanted to. They went further than she did, thus get the blame.
    3/ Still no evidence?
    Well yes the selling of council houses led to greater affluence being passed from parents to children. But whats the legacy of this? The disappearance of council homes which put great strain on the limited public housing stocks remaining making it harder for poor families to find places to live.And as repossessions soar, there are 1.7 million desperate people on council house waiting lists.
    But look at the real socio-economic policies which under pinned Thatchers aims,of removing any kind of egalitarianism in society.
    From Poll Tax to Privatisation,to Trade Unions and Derugulation, Thatchers move was ultimately to let market forces reign superior,to pretty much make the working classes enslaved to such an unequal system,and the Credit Crunch was a legacy of this.

    I agree New Labour are just as culpable in sustaining Thatcherism,yet merely with a red front.

    What evidence can be provided,just as you can't provide evidence to support the contrasting view.
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    (Original post by Krakatoa)
    Well yes the selling of council houses led to greater affluence being passed from parents to children. But whats the legacy of this? The disappearance of council homes which put great strain on the limited public housing stocks remaining making it harder for poor families to find places to live.And as repossessions soar, there are 1.7 million desperate people on council house waiting lists.
    There wouldn't be as huge a strain on public services if Labour controlled immigration. But I accept that more social housing needs to be built.
    However, it needs to be built in a manner that neither damages the environment (i.e. built on greenbelt land) nor built in existing towns/cities.

    Thatchers move was ultimately to let market forces reign superior
    Well done to her.
    The market has allowed for cheaper prices for all consumers. It has meant an otherwise expensive item is available to the working classes who would otherwise not be able to afford it.


    ,to pretty much make the working classes enslaved to such an unequal system,and the Credit Crunch was a legacy of this.
    That is Labour's legacy.


    What evidence can be provided,just as you can't provide evidence to support the contrasting view.[/quote]

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ion-today.html

    There is some evidence to support she had some popularity.
    A yougov poll

    Greatest Briton - She is near the top...

    So really, I have always considered Margaret Thatcher to be Marmite - Some hate her some love her. There isn't really an in-between.
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    Thatcher was a genius. It must have been the last time and possibly one of the first times in a very, very long time that there was exactly £0 of public debt. A Balance of Payments surplus and relatively decent living conditions. There of course was a huge difference in wealth distrubution. But it is almost the same now, we will never have all perfect living conditions.
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    (Original post by RooKnight)
    Thatcher was a genius. It must have been the last time and possibly one of the first times in a very, very long time that there was exactly £0 of public debt.
    Eh? Thats a lie. For a start we only finished paying the Yanks for WW2 a couple of years ago...

    Are you saying gilts didn't exist in the 80s?
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    Oh, but the political ideology text book at sixth form said that?
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Well done to her.
    The market has allowed for cheaper prices for all consumers. It has meant an otherwise expensive item is available to the working classes who would otherwise not be able to afford it.

    That is Labour's legacy.

    There is some evidence to support she had some popularity.
    A yougov poll

    Greatest Briton - She is near the top...

    So really, I have always considered Margaret Thatcher to be Marmite - Some hate her some love her. There isn't really an in-between.
    Your only reason for supporting a market based economy is cheaper goods:rolleyes:

    It is a legacy New Labour certainly supported,but the severity Thatcher enforced it with is something alot of people will never forgive,though the facade of Social Democracy by New Labour is nearly just as bad as Thatcherism.

    Since when did YouGov poll from less than 20,000 people represent the entire view of a nation?
    Being commissioned by the Telegraph,which is a notoriously apologist paper for Thatcher,it is just representative of Telegraph readers and those who share the same view,not the general population.


    She was also third on the 'Worst Briton' poll,not that it proves anything more than the 'Great Briton' poll what each may constitute and what the entire population feel.

    Of course opinion is polarised,you either benefited from her policies,being placed higher in the means of production,or you didn't,and exploitation was sustained and worsened.
 
 
 
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