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If you were the health minister, where would you make the cuts? Watch

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    (Original post by Beska)
    I know you're probably trolling, but I'd say approximately 99.9999% of illnesses are self-inflicted. Only a handful of congenital ones aren't.

    Would you charge people who are injured in a car crash? Charge somebody who slips and breaks his leg? Charge somebody who is cutting vegetables and slices his finger? It is a slippery slope. A chef is trained to cut vegetables, if he cuts his finger is it still an accident? Should he be charged?
    Nope, not to car crash victims, I was one! Not to people who slip and break their legs either.

    A chef cutting vegetables as a part of his job and cuts his finger or even a stuntment hurt on set would still be eligible for treatment. They are different from the fatties or the winos because the latter constantly consistently do something during a prolonged period which serves to heighten the likelihood of them getting ill.

    As opposed to the stuntman, if he's all strapped in securely every time, admittedly his chances of hurting himself are pretty high to start with, but with each subsequent repeat action, the risk does not increase. His 5th year of being a stuntman is just as risky or even less than his 1st day! As opposed to some fat kid stuffing a 1/4 pounder into their gobs for the 25000th time. At least tax those people like the smokers who actually pay more than their expected health care bills over their lifetimes.

    So I take the fact you didn't contest my other points means they're all good :borat:?
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    (Original post by The-Real-One)
    Nope, not to car crash victims, I was one! Not to people who slip and break their legs either.

    A chef cutting vegetables as a part of his job and cuts his finger or even a stuntment hurt on set would still be eligible for treatment. They are different from the fatties or the winos because the latter constantly consistently do something during a prolonged period which serves to heighten the likelihood of them getting ill.

    As opposed to the stuntman, if he's all strapped in securely every time, admittedly his chances of hurting himself are pretty high to start with, but with each subsequent repeat action, the risk does not increase. His 5th year of being a stuntman is just as risky or even less than his 1st day! As opposed to some fat kid stuffing a 1/4 pounder into their gobs for the 25000th time. At least tax those people like the smokers who actually pay more than their expected health care bills over their lifetimes.

    So I take the fact you didn't contest my other points means they're all good :borat:?
    No I disagree completely with the premise of charging people for "self-inflicted illnesses" because it is very difficult to define "self-inflicted illness". The only fair way is to charge extra for everything or to charge extra for nothing.
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    (Original post by The-Real-One)
    Nope, not to car crash victims, I was one! Not to people who slip and break their legs either.

    A chef cutting vegetables as a part of his job and cuts his finger or even a stuntment hurt on set would still be eligible for treatment. They are different from the fatties or the winos because the latter constantly consistently do something during a prolonged period which serves to heighten the likelihood of them getting ill.

    As opposed to the stuntman, if he's all strapped in securely every time, admittedly his chances of hurting himself are pretty high to start with, but with each subsequent repeat action, the risk does not increase. His 5th year of being a stuntman is just as risky or even less than his 1st day! As opposed to some fat kid stuffing a 1/4 pounder into their gobs for the 25000th time. At least tax those people like the smokers who actually pay more than their expected health care bills over their lifetimes.

    So I take the fact you didn't contest my other points means they're all good :borat:?
    You clearly have no wish to understand why some people are fat/are "winos"/take drugs etc. Genetic predisposition to obesity? Naturally addictive personality? Personal problems? Depression? Bereavement?

    What about a cyclist/motorcyclist who doesn't wear a helmet? Or a car full of people who never wear their seatbelts? It's undeniably true that these actions are increasing their chance of serious illness/injury.

    Also, your logic regarding the stuntman is fail. Assuming the risk of injury stays the same, (s)he is more likely to get injured far more often during a 10 year period than in 1 year.
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    (Original post by Beska)
    Basically: cut out managers.
    I'd much rather have managers doing the managing than doctors.
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    (Original post by Phalanges)
    I'd much rather have managers doing the managing than doctors.
    Perhaps, but not with all the tiers they have now. You have managers managing managers managing managers.

    You are no longer Lindsey Lohan? Illusion shattered.
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    (Original post by Beska)
    Perhaps, but not with all the tiers they have now. You have managers managing managers managing managers.

    You are no longer Lindsey Lohan? Illusion shattered.
    I have little knowledge of the inner workings of NHS management, but as I think was pretty clearly shown in the run-up to the election managers as a whole are being exploited as scapegoats of waste and inefficiency, when there is a definite need for them.
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    (Original post by Phalanges)
    I have little knowledge of the inner workings of NHS management, but as I think was pretty clearly shown in the run-up to the election managers as a whole are being exploited as scapegoats of waste and inefficiency, when there is a definite need for them.
    I know only what I've learned from talking to an ex-NHS manager (now some private healthcare service manager) who seems to agree that there are too much management staff in the NHS. I never said scrap all managers but merely said that a lot of the managers need to be cut, and even so they may be being used as a scapegoat there is a definite problem with the management structure the way it is currently. With Lansley's plans it is obvious that the GP consortiums are just going to rehire the ex-PCT/SHA managers, but hopefully in a more efficient way now that they understand they need to make a decision, broadly, between hiring extra managers or buying more drugs.

    I really like this line from Max Pemberton's column:

    (Original post by Good ol' Max)
    My friend, who is now a successful corporate lawyer, says that if the NHS wants to operate along corporate lines, it needs to heed corporate principles: no business would employ so many people who don't do what the business is set up to do – namely to treat patients.
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    Cutting admin requires a complete overhaul in the attitudes of the general population towards the NHS.

    Loads of it is providing accountability, or proof that a trust can whip out if they ever get sued showing that 'something was done'.

    Take the nursing admission and discharge paperwork 'packs', they are literally like mini books!

    (Oh, and if I was health minister I would cut back most of this infection control madness that has swept the NHS and leaving only stuff that was properly and rigorously evidence based. Which numpty decided to ban flowers?)
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    Cutting admin requires a complete overhaul in the attitudes of the general population towards the NHS.

    Loads of it is providing accountability, or proof that a trust can whip out if they ever get sued showing that 'something was done'.

    Take the nursing admission and discharge paperwork 'packs', they are literally like mini books!

    (Oh, and if I was health minister I would cut back most of this infection control madness that has swept the NHS and leaving only stuff that was properly and rigorously evidence based. Which numpty decided to ban flowers?)
    Think about how much money is save by banning flowers?

    Less cleaning time per bedspace.
    Less equipment damaged by spills.
    Less linen soiled by spills.
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    (Original post by Renal)
    Think about how much money is save by banning flowers?
    But think of all the happiness gained. I love flowers
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    patients get their sheets changed every day - cut this down to once twice a week unless soiled - laundry savings for a start, then staff etc.
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    Cut all funding for GKT
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    Expand the private sector
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    To my wrists. (Longitudinally, of course.)
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    Stop encouraging the growth of the private sector using government funds or government targets - I was told by my GP that he was encouraged to send a certain amount of referrals to the private sector rather than the NHS .
    Stop using NHS ward space and staff for private patients.
    Stop funding for complementary and alternative medicine use (although continue research into those without a good evidence base against it and may have a chance of working), shut down those excellent Homeopathic hospitals around the country.
    Expand the role of NICE into medical procedures and equipment, apparently (I'm not 100% sure, don't sue me) unlike medicines procedures and equipment aren't regulated nearly as much as pharmaceutials.
    Attempt to reverse the PFI schemes across the country, although some like hospital construction and such can't really be changed at this point.

    Ah, my ignorance shows through in this post
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    I'd cut the patients. No patients will lead to the most efficient health service in the world!
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    Managers.
    Worked for NHS for two years, the catering department alone has 9 managers, all on senior grades.
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    my first cut would be Boris JOhnson's 'air, macca.


    this really needs some attention pronto.
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    (Original post by Beska)
    I know you're probably trolling, but I'd say approximately 99.9999% of illnesses are self-inflicted. Only a handful of congenital ones aren't.

    Would you charge people who are injured in a car crash? Charge somebody who slips and breaks his leg? Charge somebody who is cutting vegetables and slices his finger? It is a slippery slope. A chef is trained to cut vegetables, if he cuts his finger is it still an accident? Should he be charged?
    You've just contradicted yourself in that post.
    99.9999% of illnesses are self-inflicted? How'd you figure that?
    And then go on to argue things like car crash, slipping and cutting a finger, as though they are self inflicted, they're not.
    People don't choose to fall and break their leg, or get cancer, there is some element of choice in alcohol and especially in being overweight.

    I must stress the emphasis of 'some' choice.
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    (Original post by geekdiddy)
    I'm really struggling with this question. What are your thoughts and ideas?
    Make cuts in the NHS: the managers earn too much for too little. Also, cut jobs in the NHS, there are so many useless jobs that people are being paid for! Finally, I would privatise the NHS; it's a privilege, not a right.
 
 
 
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