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Girls and Guys (and any others also) Has real feminism died? Watch

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    (Original post by midpikyrozziy)
    If you're deconstructing the idea of 'woman' and the gender/sex binaries, then how is it even feminism? Feminism strikes me, by definition, as being rather concerned with gender.
    Research post-structuralist feminism. Or read Judith Butler, or some queer theory.
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    (Original post by IlexBlue)
    First off, I'm only talking about Britain here. Before others pounce on me and talk about other countries.

    And, well... yeah, I think so. "Women, get back in the kitchen!" jokes and banter aside, I don't really see any need for a feminist movement now.

    Women now have the exact same rights and opportunities as men have. Hell, maybe even more, what with the desperate, constantly-trying-to-be-PC society we live in. If anyone were to discriminate against a women in anyway, they'd have the book thrown at them quicker than you can say "lawsuit." You don't really see any sexism anymore, and a woman is free now to do anything she wants. I don't see a point in it.
    What about influences of stereotypes on women? Are they that free as you say? I see the women's right benefited the system capitalism, if in the past they had 1 worker per house in a total of 20 persons per area, now they have 2 workers per house in a total of 40 persons per area. You seem to ignore also the subtle prejudice against women.
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    Feminists seem to think that women are equal to men. But it's not that simple : 1 = 1, but A =/= B =/= C [...]
    They should be respected as much as men, have the very same rights, but I still have a penis, and thus am entitled to being different than women.
    Voting rights ? Obvious. Equal pay ? Seems obvious as well. I'm all for scraping altogether the word "man" and "woman" from law, and replace it with "individuals".
    Now please don't force me to become like Justin Bieber.
    Just because you can't have a penis doesn't mean you get to castrate us.
    Men aren't supposed to be hairless and cry all the time while being sensitive and speak all day long of poetry and flowers.

    Just accept that women have particularities, the same way men do.
    If you want to make us all be the same, I might as well turn gay, at least my partner will understand me better.

    I do welcome neg rep. from frustrated feminazis though.
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    (Original post by IlexBlue)
    First off, I'm only talking about Britain here. Before others pounce on me and talk about other countries.

    And, well... yeah, I think so. "Women, get back in the kitchen!" jokes and banter aside, I don't really see any need for a feminist movement now.

    Women now have the exact same rights and opportunities as men have. Hell, maybe even more, what with the desperate, constantly-trying-to-be-PC society we live in. If anyone were to discriminate against a women in anyway, they'd have the book thrown at them quicker than you can say "lawsuit." You don't really see any sexism anymore, and a woman is free now to do anything she wants. I don't see a point in it.



    Something funny?
    Yeah, most of what your saying is.

    If women are equal, if sexism doesn't exist, and if a woman is free to do anything she wants expain the following (I can give you the sources, just ask)-

    Women are poorer than men. 70% of the world's poorest citizens are female. They have less savings, more unmanageable debt, lower incomes, and less say in policy changes regarding them. They occupy far less positions of power, career wise- 11% of directors of the UK's top 100 companies are women. They're more likely to become unpaid carers for relatives, and to bear the cost of raising children.

    And on top of this, girls are 10 times more likely to have an eating disorder than men. They're 5 times more likely to be sexually assaulted, 9 times more likely to be raped.

    So yeah, forgive me for laughing when you say stuff like 'sexism doesn't exist' 'men and women are equal'. Give me a break.
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    (Original post by Krov)
    Just accept that women have particularities, the same way men do.

    ...like what?
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    And on top of this, girls are 10 times more likely to have an eating disorder than men. They're 5 times more likely to be sexually assaulted, 9 times more likely to be raped.
    I believe that men are more likely to be victims of ongoing domestic abuse (I can attempt to dig up the source for that). On top of that, I could probably google a list of things that are more likely to happen to men.

    That's not an argument for non-equality. And, that's because equal rights is not the same as identical rights.
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    Not really. There's still a lot of social pressure on women to behave a certain way, mostly from women themselves. It's quite upsetting.
    It's bit like leaving Africa in the hands of Africans. They will always find a way to screw themselves over.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Research post-structuralist feminism. Or read Judith Butler, or some queer theory.
    In any case, deconstructing gender ideas is ridiculous. To me it seems that feminists twenty years ago and further back had genuine reasons for concern and complaint, and thankfully, things got changed. But nowadays they blindly nitpick in some sort of attempt to pretend they're like the freedom fighters yesteryear.

    Just out of interest, why do you reject the post-modern feminist theory that the genders are different but equal, and societal norms have converged to suit this?
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    (Original post by Ellim)
    I believe that men are more likely to be victims of ongoing domestic abuse (I can attempt to dig up the source for that). On top of that, I could probably google a list of things that are more likely to happen to men.

    That's not an argument for non-equality. And, that's because equal rights is not the same as identical rights.
    The evidence is overwhelming that women are the primary victims of domestic abuse, rape, and sexual assault. Any sources you can find to say otherwise will probably be pretty poor.

    And of course it's an argument for inquality. Women are poorer than men, less powerful than men, and more vulnerable than men. That's practically inequality by definition.

    And you could probably find a list of things that are more likely to happen to men, but I doubt they'd trump poverty and rape, tbh.
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    (Original post by midpikyrozziy)
    In any case, deconstructing gender ideas is ridiculous.
    Do you know anything about gender studies, or do you have any informed reason for dismissing its entire sphere?

    (Original post by midpikyrozziy)
    Just out of interest, why do you reject the post-modern feminist theory that the genders are different but equal, and societal norms have converged to suit this?
    Because 'gender' is completely constructed. There is nothing innate about gender.
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    (Original post by Krov)
    Feminists seem to think that women are equal to men. But it's not that simple : 1 = 1, but A =/= B =/= C [...]
    They should be respected as much as men, have the very same rights, but I still have a penis, and thus am entitled to being different than women.
    Voting rights ? Obvious. Equal pay ? Seems obvious as well. I'm all for scraping altogether the word "man" and "woman" from law, and replace it with "individuals".
    Now please don't force me to become like Justin Bieber.
    Just because you can't have a penis doesn't mean you get to castrate us.
    Men aren't supposed to be hairless and cry all the time while being sensitive and speak all day long of poetry and flowers.

    Just accept that women have particularities, the same way men do.
    If you want to make us all be the same, I might as well turn gay, at least my partner will understand me better.

    I do welcome neg rep. from frustrated feminazis though.
    I'm a feminazi but I will forgive (this time. Next time I will call the supercutters to cut your penis). I get your point and I agree with your point of view.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    And you could probably find a list of things that are more likely to happen to men, but I doubt they'd trump poverty and rape, tbh.
    So, what about the direct experiences of a male rape victim to a female rape victim? (ETA: Although I understand that you're making sweeping generalisations about whole aspects of society, what your generalisation does is undermine the horrific experiences of the male rape victim, male in poverty, male abuse victim etc.)

    And, to be honest - it sounds as though you are making yourself a victim simply because you have a vagina. Personally, I don't let my vagina hold me back or make me unnecessarily angry or negative.

    As I said previously - I believe in equality and don't condone misandry any more than I condone misogyny
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Yeah, most of what your saying is.

    Women are poorer than men. 70% of the world's poorest citizens are female. They have less savings, more unmanageable debt, lower incomes, and less say in policy changes regarding them. They occupy far less positions of power, career wise- 11% of directors of the UK's top 100 companies are women. They're more likely to become unpaid carers for relatives, and to bear the cost of raising children.

    And on top of this, girls are 10 times more likely to have an eating disorder than men. They're 5 times more likely to be sexually assaulted, 9 times more likely to be raped.
    1) Pulling crappy statistics out of nowhere doesn't hide the fact that your poverty figures stem from the fact extreme poverty is so stressful that it implies high rates of birth, which in turns prevents women from having a decent career.

    Lower incomes come from the fact that in a very primitive environment (ie. Africa, rural China - areas that inflate your figures because of absurdly high population), women can't be as useful as men (I'm speaking of manual labour involving lifting weights). Brainpower is equivalent to men, but you can only use your brain if you have an education, which isn't the case in the poorest countries. You don't have the same amount of muscles, however, so you are basically useless in Somalia, Bangladesh and other God-forsaken countries.

    2) Women don't place the same emphasis on careers, as they are far less competitive, psychology-wise (speaking of HURRR DURRR penis contests here). Women simply aren't interested in becoming an executive. They have no trouble though dominating very challenging areas of intellectual expertise, such as Law, Literature, Psychology, Geopolitics, Sociology... If you can be a lawyer (law pratices are full of women), you can be an IT engineer, unless you don't want to, which as it happens, is exactly why there are few women engineers.

    3) They bear the cost of raising children because they actually do bear children. Men don't become pregnant, surprise ! And HR managers can't trust the pregnancy variable not to hit them during critical times. So it's a rational decision. But being happy doesn't mean having a great career you know... That's typical man-thinking, and that's no flattery, since we are supposedly savage beasts.
    Rejoice in the fact that you live way longer than us for starters.

    4) Men are much more likely to commit suicide because of work-related stress due to their greater emphasis on careers.

    As for the rape statistics, it does show you are actually superior to us, since you don't need to use rape as a means to reach sexual - and personal - gratification. And I'd argue that this isn't so much a problem of inequality as much as a problem of education and security. Don't go around at night dressed provocatively, because some proportion of men will always be retarded Neanderthals, no matter what you do. I don't complain that a proportion of women are gold diggers, because there's no way that will ever change, so don't be retarded and ask rape to cease to exist.
    Both genders are populated with a number of retards. Aformentioned retards abuse of their position in different manners. That's all there is to it.


    ==> Conclusion : In most of the developed world, you are equal to men. Face it.
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    (Original post by Ellim)
    But women still get paid less than men for equal work. (source: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=167)
    Because you are paid based on results, not effort. Men in general do [sorry horrible generalization incoming] generally have more productive output. Incoming negs.
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    "I pose topless for Nuts because i'm a feminist, i love it when a woman has power and all the attention i get [from all the guys masturbating over nude pictures of me] makes me feel powerful!"... this has where your feminism has gone.
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    (Original post by Ellim)
    So, what about the direct experiences of a male rape victim to a female rape victim? (ETA: Although I understand that you're making sweeping generalisations about whole aspects of society, what your generalisation does is undermine the horrific experiences of the male rape victim, male in poverty, male abuse victim etc.)
    Er, of course it doesn't undermine male suffering. You might as well say 'no, we can't say that Jews were persecuted during the holocaust, cos non-Jews had it pretty rough too'. It's just as terrible when a man suffers as when a woman suffers, but we can't ignore the fact that there are widespread mechanisms in place that cause women to suffer more frequently.

    (Original post by Ellim)
    And, to be honest - it sounds as though you are making yourself a victim simply because you have a vagina. Personally, I don't let my vagina hold me back or make me unnecessarily angry or negative.
    I don't see myself as a victim. I rarely myself experience sexism or misogyny, probably because I can be quite intimidating. So no, I don't let my vagina hold me back. But as someone who values human rights and womens rights, unsurprisingly I care about more than just what happens to me.

    (Original post by Ellim)
    As I said previously - I believe in equality and don't condone misandry any more than I condone misogyny
    Then what are you whining about?
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    (Original post by SoulfulBoy)
    The last century was greatly important regarding women rights and the idea of what feminism was could be clearly seen. What is feminism doing today? Don't misinterpret me, I know there are still few groups fighting for that, but I cannot see the same spirit of the last century. Feminism as a whole has been reduced to attend some irrelevant meetings with no real future or participating in the Day of Women (it means that we reckognize women fully for a day and then we forget about it). Where is the feminism today? Has the X Factor,soap-operas kind of television programmes, female magazines and another **** destroyed it? Let's start a hot debate
    No. I'd say its more that at the beginning of the 20th century we didn't have the right to own property or vote and certainly in the eyes of the law we were second class citizens. Hence why women's rights were a major issue.
    Now I accept there are still occasions where women are discriminated against- but these are comparatively very minor, and so obviously there is a less vocal feminist movement- it just isn't necessary.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Do you know anything about gender studies, or do you have any informed reason for dismissing its entire sphere?
    Because 'gender' is completely constructed. There is nothing innate about gender.[/QUOTE]

    Surely if you study gender then you're open to both sides of the argument. I didn't dismiss the entire sphere, only the view you seem to take.

    I don't think that gender inequality really exists in the Western world, and what little does is rapidly dying out naturally. I've seen your list of cases in which the woman is discriminated against, but I could provide you with cases where the man is in a similar position. I seem to remember on a thread I was reading you had no comeback when someone mentioned the comparatively tiny funding and chance of survival when comparing prostate and testicular cancer to breast cancer. Both genders have it tough in certain cases, but this does not mean they are unequal.

    Why do you think we should deconstruct gender? Gender which is of course based on the innate characteristics of each sex, going way back to the male as the hunter/gatherer and the female as the caregiver. Different, but equal.
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    ironically, feminism was orinigally the means for women to act like men and have the same rights as men. some of them were rather "masculine" in outlook for their time. But now it seems like something cool to preach.

    Kinda funny to reflect on it.
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    (Original post by Krov)
    1) Pulling crappy statistics out of nowhere doesn't hide the fact that your poverty figures stem from the fact extreme poverty is so stressful that it implies high rates of birth, which in turns prevents women from having a decent career.

    Lower incomes come from the fact that in a very primitive environment (ie. Africa, rural China - areas that inflate your figures because of absurdly high population), women can't be as useful as men (I'm speaking of manual labour involving lifting weights). Brainpower is equivalent to men, but you can only use your brain if you have an education, which isn't the case in the poorest countries. You don't have the same amount of muscles, however, so you are basically useless in Somalia, Bangladesh and other God-forsaken countries.

    Women in the UK are more likely to live in poverty than men.


    (Original post by Krov)
    2) Women don't place the same emphasis on careers, as they are far less competitive, psychology-wise (speaking of HURRR DURRR penis contests here). Women simply aren't interested in becoming an executive. They have no trouble though dominating very challenging areas of intellectual expertise, such as Law, Literature, Psychology, Geopolitics, Sociology... If you can be a lawyer (law pratices are full of women), you can be an IT engineer, unless you don't want to, which as it happens, is exactly why there are few women engineers.
    Yes, and WHY don't women want to be engineers? Why aren't they motivated and ambitious in the same way as men? In what way has society let them know that as women, less is expected of them, they shouldn't be as ambitious, and that they're supposed to work in certain jobs? It's obviously not innate, is it?


    (Original post by Krov)
    They bear the cost of raising children because they actually do bear children. Men don't become pregnant, surprise ! And HR managers can't trust the pregnancy variable not to hit them during critical times. So it's a rational decision. But being happy doesn't mean having a great career you know... That's typical man-thinking, and that's no flattery, since we are supposedly savage beasts.
    Rejoice in the fact that you live way longer than us for starters.
    Yeah, women BEAR the children- why does that mean they bear the cost of RAISING children?
    And sure, you don't need a career to be happy. Except as we've seen, women having less option of a career has left them poorer than men, and more vulnerable.

    (Original post by Krov)
    As for the rape statistics, it does show you are actually superior to us, since you don't need to use rape as a means to reach sexual - and personal - gratification.
    Er, this was never about women being inferior or superior, it was about women and men being equal. If women are far more vulnerable to rape and domestic abuse than men, that is inequality. If 1 in 4 women are victims of rape or assault or domestic abuse, that is unequivocally a gender issue, especially when the equivilent stats for men are minimal.

    (Original post by Krov)
    And I'd argue that this isn't so much a problem of inequality as much as a problem of education and security. Don't go around at night dressed provocatively, because some proportion of men will always be retarded Neanderthals, no matter what you do. I don't complain that a proportion of women are gold diggers, because there's no way that will ever change, so don't be retarded and ask rape to cease to exist.
    Both genders are populated with a number of retards. Aformentioned retards abuse of their position in different manners. That's all there is to it.
    I'm gobsmacked that you would equate a woman being a gold-digger with a man RAPING SOMEBODY. Or that you would imply that dressing provocatively has anything to do with rape.
 
 
 
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