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Is bullfighting the sickest spectacle on earth? Watch

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    (Original post by xnatalie01x)
    It's disgusting. Enough rubbish about how animals aren't equal to humans, what a stupid thing to say. Would you like it if your pets were treated this way? The only good thing is if a bull decides to get its on back. I really hope they abolish bullfighting.
    Thank you
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    I haven't heard a decent argument for why this sick torture shouldn't be banned. The argument from tradition is rubbish - the fact that such cruelty has been going on for a long time provides no valid reason whatsoever as to why it should be continued.
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    (Original post by xnatalie01x)
    Enough rubbish about how animals aren't equal to humans, what a stupid thing to say.
    Why is that a stupid thing to say?

    It really isn't obvious that animals are equal to humans, and if they are it's an extremely recent moral discovery....

    and which animals are 'equal' to humans? The fluffy cute ones? I should imagine that you have no hesitation to kill the wasp or spider irritating you, but they are animals, and you don't kill people irritating you, nor do you consider them in the same way.

    and it's too simplistic to say that animals suffer or experience pain. I'm pretty sure if you had rats you'd not hesitate to get rid of them, but they pretty obviously can experience pain and suffer.

    What would it even mean for an animal to be 'equal' to a human; for it to be subject to British law? Or the universal decleration of...... human rights?
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Why is that a stupid thing to say?

    It really isn't obvious that animals are equal to humans, and if they are it's an extremely recent moral discovery....

    and which animals are 'equal' to humans? The fluffy cute ones? I should imagine that you have no hesitation to kill the wasp or spider irritating you, but they are animals, and you don't kill people irritating you, nor do you consider them in the same way.

    and it's too simplistic to say that animals suffer or experience pain. I'm pretty sure if you had rats you'd not hesitate to get rid of them, but they pretty obviously can experience pain and suffer.

    What would it even mean for an animal to be 'equal' to a human; for it to be subject to British law? Or the universal decleration of...... human rights?
    Oh that's alright then............
    So we can cause immense pain to any animal we like in the name of fun? I mean if they're not equal then surley we can do anything we like to them, no matter how much they suffer?
    We used to think black wern't equal to whites so we treated them appalingly and made them salves. According to your logic this is fine.

    I'm sorry but you are a disgrace to the human race!
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    (Original post by MagnificentFuhrer)
    Oh that's alright then............
    So we can cause immense pain to any animal we like in the name of fun? I mean if they're not equal then surley we can do anything we like to them, no matter how much they suffer?
    We used to think black wern't equal to whites so we treated them appalingly and made them salves. According to your logic this is fine.

    I'm sorry but you are a disgrace to the human race!
    You conveniently ignored the rest of his post though.
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    (Original post by MagnificentFuhrer)
    Oh that's alright then............
    So we can cause immense pain to any animal we like in the name of fun? I mean if they're not equal then surley we can do anything we like to them, no matter how much they suffer?
    We used to think black wern't equal to whites so we treated them appalingly and made them salves. According to your logic this is fine.

    I'm sorry but you are a disgrace to the human race!
    A disgrace to the human race! Wow! I feel terrible now you called me that

    I'll care more for the Bunny Wabbits now, just like you.

    So, are you going to anwer my question?

    What does it mean for an animal to be equal to a person?

    Which animals are equal to persons?
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    It's really gross. Can't believe people in a 21-century western country still do/enjoy watching it.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Why is that a stupid thing to say?

    It really isn't obvious that animals are equal to humans, and if they are it's an extremely recent moral discovery.... ? and which animals are 'equal' to humans? The fluffy cute ones? I should imagine that you have no hesitation to kill the wasp or spider irritating you, but they are animals, and you don't kill people irritating you, nor do you consider them in the same way.

    and it's too simplistic to say that animals suffer or experience pain. I'm pretty sure if you had rats you'd not hesitate to get rid of them, but they pretty obviously can experience pain and suffer.
    Isn't it? Well, that speaks volumes about you then. I will refrain as you are a SW Londoner like me but in the U.K there's generally that attitude that both are equal... and no I don't kill spiders or wasps! However, it is one thing to kill an insect outright and another to taunt and torment animals before killing them. It's really inhumane and I'm surprised at anyone who wouldn't argue against it.... In the same way you can't just say oh plenty of other animals suffer, lets just keep this tradition to keep a sick minority of people that watch these acts happy.

    Edit: a warning for that? really....
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    (Original post by xnatalie01x)
    Isn't it? Well, that speaks volumes about you then. I will refrain as you are a SW Londoner like me but in the U.K there's generally that attitude that both are equal... and no I don't kill spiders or wasps! However, it is one thing to kill an insect outright and another to taunt and torment animals before killing them. It's really inhumane and I'm surprised at anyone who wouldn't argue against it.... In the same way you can't just say oh plenty of other animals suffer, lets just keep this tradition to keep a sick minority of people that watch these acts happy.
    You can't argue that all animals are on the same level as humans. While torturing an animal is a cruel act, ridding yourself of pests is completely normal and there is nothing wrong with that. I kill wasps on a regular basis, hell in my lifetime if there was a war crimes court for crimes against the wasp species I probably would be charged with genocide. Here in the south though they are a pest and when they sting your pets and make life a painful experience. Drown them, lit them on fire, killed them with chemicals, smashed them...etc
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    (Original post by AntiMonarchist)
    typical british arrogance
    Spanish ignorance.
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    (Original post by MagnificentFuhrer)
    I've been researching Spanish culture for Spanish class and I came across a bullfight on YouTube. If you skip to 5:05 in the vid, you'll see the ending for the bull isn't swift but rather torture! I used to think of bullfighting as just a cultural difference, but surley this sort of macabre torture can't be allowed in the 21st century, not in Europe anyhow.

    Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLDWj...eature=related
    You should read "Death in the Afternoon" by Hemingway. I'm not saying it would convert you or anything, but it's always good to expose yourself to the opposite perspective.
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    (Original post by xnatalie01x)
    Isn't it? Well, that speaks volumes about you then. I will refrain as you are a SW Londoner like me but in the U.K there's generally that attitude that both are equal... and no I don't kill spiders or wasps! However, it is one thing to kill an insect outright and another to taunt and torment animals before killing them. It's really inhumane and I'm surprised at anyone who wouldn't argue against it.... In the same way you can't just say oh plenty of other animals suffer, lets just keep this tradition to keep a sick minority of people that watch these acts happy.

    I don't think that is the general attitude in the UK, and for good reason: there is a clear difference between fully conscious, self-aware humans and animals. There is no coherent moral argument why animals should be treated differently from plants: both feel pain, neither are conscious (according to the most up to date scientific research). So where's the difference? Because animals are cuddly?
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    (Original post by Texan88)
    You can't argue that all animals are on the same level as humans. While torturing an animal is a cruel act, ridding yourself of pests is completely normal and there is nothing wrong with that. I kill wasps on a regular basis, hell in my lifetime if there was a war crimes court for crimes against the wasp species I probably would be charged with genocide. Here in the south though they are a pest and when they sting your pets and make life a painful experience. Drown them, lit them on fire, killed them with chemicals, smashed them...etc
    If you have to kill a few insects because they threaten your quality of life, then so be it. That is a complete contrast from bullfighting and a pretty weak argument in support of bullfighting, when the bulls aren't actually hurting anyone from the off. They merely retaliate when provoked.
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    I'm a Spaniard and HATE bullfighting.

    But the sickest spectacle? On earth? Are you ****ing serious? It's obvious that you haven't researched much other than Spanish culture. Why don't you travel a little bit?
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    I despise bullfighting. It epitomises the immorality of human nature.
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    (Original post by xnatalie01x)
    Isn't it? Well, that speaks volumes about you then. I will refrain as you are a SW Londoner like me but in the U.K there's generally that attitude that both are equal... and no I don't kill spiders or wasps! However, it is one thing to kill an insect outright and another to taunt and torment animals before killing them. It's really inhumane and I'm surprised at anyone who wouldn't argue against it.... In the same way you can't just say oh plenty of other animals suffer, lets just keep this tradition to keep a sick minority of people that watch these acts happy.
    Well I don't know that it does speak volumes about me? I like to consider myself as a morally serious person, I just happen to disagree? I find mass abortion a moral travesty, many disagree. And you have to concede that the idea that animals are equal to persons is the novel idea here? And I think any society that is fine with the abortion of seven million babies since 1967 (eat your heart of Himmler) but can't bare to see a fluffy fox hurt, has things rather mixed up.

    I don't know that they are considered equal to persons? Most people in the UK eat meat, but aren't cannibals?
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    You should read "Death in the Afternoon" by Hemingway. I'm not saying it would convert you or anything, but it's always good to expose yourself to the opposite perspective.
    Why do we need the opposite perspective? We all saw that bullfight and we all saw what happened. Saying that we need the opposite perspective is a silly thing to say.
    'Oh yeah rape is bad, but lets look at it from the point of view of the rapist...'
    I know thats considered worse than harming animals but you get my point.
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    (Original post by xnatalie01x)
    If you have to kill a few insects because they threaten your quality of life, then so be it. That is a complete contrast from bullfighting and a pretty weak argument in support of bullfighting, when the bulls aren't actually hurting anyone from the off. They merely retaliate when provoked.
    I never said I was in favor of it, I am actually against it, but, the argument that all creatures are equal is far from true.
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    (Original post by Manitude)
    It's not overly pleasant, but I've seen worse.

    I'd prefer if more people were involved in a slightly different version of the tradition. The bull isn't harmed at all, the guys just jump over it when it runs at them.
    Much more impressive and humane.
    The Minoans used to do that and I can see why it didint catch on.
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    best event ever, one of the reason I miss Portugal.
 
 
 
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