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    (Original post by Laura-alice26)
    ok, so i get why people are upset, but its getting stupid!!
    so what people will have to pay more, a degree is worth more than £27,000 anyway!! and an education isnt a right! its something you earn from working hard, and it shouldnt just be handed to you.
    i really dont understand why people are so mad. if you want a degree that much you wont care about how much it costs, i sure as hell dont and i am not exactly rich or anything, i come from your average working class family.
    may I ask what exactly a modern day average working class family is?

    also, allow the whole "education isnt a right" argument, considering its peddled by the same people who indeed were granted higher education as a right. nonetheless, you follow this line by contradicting yourself. a degree should be earnt through hard work, and not from having bundles of money. saying that, I dont really care about the rises. its not like they have made no effort to increase the aid also given. the thing that should get the most attention imo is the cuts to the unis funding.
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    We should not allow such reckless protests and there should be an organising body to education those who are ill informed of the tuition fee rise.
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    The whole thing has been handled wrong. there are reason for the changes.

    Personally i want to go to university because i have since primary school, i love learning and i am willing to pay more to get better educated. i think that some people go to university for the wrong reasons.
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    (Original post by F i s)
    We should not allow such reckless protests and there should be an organising body to education those who are ill informed of the tuition fee rise.
    The NUS doesn't represent all students. It, like most unions, is a left-wing organisation, largely in bed with the Labour party as Douglas Murray explained on Young Voters' QT the other day (virtually all NUS leaders, in recent times at least, have gone on to be given safe Labour seats as MPs).
    Credit to the students at Reading Uni today who organised a protest against the NUS. Regardless of whose views you agree with, it must be good for our democracy that both sides can be out protesting voicing their views.
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    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    Most do. At least in the sense of critical thinking and skills that are demanded in the workplace.
    These skills could be gained in the workplace- :. people can be (and always are) educated whilst working. "Education is a right"- is it everyone's right to have a job?

    This doesn't really represent my opinion, but it is interesting to propose a more fundamental question. Whilst I agree that education is a right, do all universities/degree courses educate in its fullest sense?
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    Well I don't agree with paying up to £36'000 for a basic undergrad degree which mightn't even get you the job you want. But I don't see the point in protests either - what do they achieve? This is partly a genuine question, I just don't see that it does anything. I suppose it beats sitting there and not getting your voice heard at all but still, I see it as pointless.
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    (Original post by tc92)
    The NUS doesn't represent all students. It, like most unions, is a left-wing organisation, largely in bed with the Labour party as Douglas Murray explained on Young Voters' QT the other day (virtually all NUS leaders, in recent times at least, have gone on to be given safe Labour seats as MPs).
    Credit to the students at Reading Uni today who organised a protest against the NUS. Regardless of whose views you agree with, it must be good for our democracy that both sides can be out protesting voicing their views.
    I represent the totalitarian end of the spectrum. I applaud any form of achievement gained in protest and would very much like to see a wider fraternity of students who can gather ideas to a more progressive society.
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    (Original post by yahyahyahs)
    I think those who have a valid point should get the focus because all you see in newspapers and on TV are a bunch of dirty anarchists setting fire to things. Personally, I believe the fees are the only way our universities will be able to compete with the likes of US and increasingly China. Also, if your education mattered to you, you would spend whatever it took to further it if you really did want to learn? I think people are forgetting that universities are institutions of learning, not glorified jobcentres.
    I couldnt agree more
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      (Original post by yahyahyahs)
      Personally, I believe the fees are the only way our universities will be able to compete with the likes of US and increasingly China.
      How will they be able to compete if their teaching budgets are being cut by 40% and their research grants are also being cut significantly. Take a look at this table,



      The UK will fall even further behind the likes of the USA, because their universities receive ridiculous sums of money in terms of endowment, and as a result, are able to attract the best academic scholars from around the world, and build the best facilities.

      Let's take an average highly rated UK university, say York. They get an endowment of £8.7 million from the government. Now let's take a counterpart from the US, say the University of Michigan. They get an $6.6 billion in endowment.

      Now let's take another example, regarding the higher end of the spectrum. Let's take Imperial College as an example. They get £276.6 million in terms of endowment (which is considerable compared to most in the UK). Now let's take a counterpart, say MIT. They get $8.3 billion a year.

      Finally, if we look at the very top end. Oxford get £3 billion. Harvard get $27.4 billion.

      So it's easy to conclude then, why the US universities are in a whole different galaxy in terms of academia. And the UK is only going to fall further behind, thanks to these cuts.
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      (Original post by Threepigs)
      I see. But won't it be difficult to pay off that loan especially if you're focusing on getting a mortgage in the future too?
      It will be just as difficult for almost everyone.
      My dad is rich, I haven't had anything to do with him for years, so I will get no grants or government money. However I will take out the fees and maintainance loan, and I am perfectly happy.
      So I will have to pay back around £30k... that isn't ideal. My degree will give me extra earning power which makes that tiny in comparison, and if you choose to do a degree which does not give you that extra earning power, then why are you doing it? If it gives you skills which are sought after then you can earn more with it, if you aren't earning more with it then nobody cares about it, and so why should the tax-payer subsidise it?

      An extra ~£15k is nothing over the course of your life. Just suck up and deal with it or don't go to university. It's not life the government wants to put up fees, it just has to because we don't have enough money. Smashing windows is not going to change the economic climate... at least not for the better.
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      The way I see it at the end of the day =

      - Peaceful protest = nothing will change as the goverment won't really have any pressure on them will probably just ignore the protests and things won't change.

      - Violent protest = alot more pressure on the goverment, more media attention BUT it is almost impossible that the goverment will change their policy/choice as then every other person/group who becomes unhappy with a potential policy/change will do the same.
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      (Original post by JmJtr)
      The way I see it at the end of the day =

      - Peaceful protest = nothing will change as the goverment won't really have any pressure on them will probably just ignore the protests and things won't change.

      - Violent protest = alot more pressure on the goverment, more media attention BUT it is almost impossible that the goverment will change their policy/choice as then every other person/group who becomes unhappy with a potential policy/change will do the same.

      On Newsnight, after the first London protest, Paxman made a good point to the London University Union Leader saying that the show was going to talk about tutition fees - they had booked lecturers, students and politicians in to talk about the protest but because of you we now have to debate the limits of protest because of the violence you caused.
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      I don't care about the protests but if they continue to become violent then it will cause the government to see us as immature kids and we won't be taken seriously.
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      What annoys me is the amount of police needed to oversee these protests because of a few idiots kicking off. At my uni there had to be one police officer for every protester, as well as police on horseback. I'm sure they have better things to do than babysit a bunch of students whining about Cameron. :facepalm2:
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      (Original post by rajandkwameali)
      An education in my mind is a right.

      And a more educated population lends to macroeconmic health in the future.
      What a silly comment. Macroeconomic health? I don't think so...

      If people get degrees in micky mouse subjects then come out and can't find a job in that subject how does it benefit anyone? The last thing we need is more unemployed grads!

      Looking at my current group of friends the ones earning the money are electricians, plummers and trademan in general. THe rest of my friends who did sports science, graphics etc are working for about £12k at the age of 23 I don't call that success!!!
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      (Original post by Cybele)
      What annoys me is the amount of police needed to oversee these protests because of a few idiots kicking off. At my uni there had to be one police officer for every protester, as well as police on horseback. I'm sure they have better things to do than babysit a bunch of students whining about Cameron. :facepalm2:
      The fact that there has to be any police is an embarassment!

      The violence that has been demonstated at these protests highlights the point that some of these idiots shouldn't be at uni!
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      yhh im fed up with the protests because its not gonna make a difference anyway and now because of these people everyones perception of young people are now that they r violent n immature people. No government gonna take our opinion seriously if we are just gonna b angry n aggressive about it. Honestly i get why everyone is angry n it is disgraceful how high the fees are going to go up by, but there are more peaceful ways to go about things. And also i bet you that half the people who are at these protests are not even prospective students and that they hav just joined in to wreck the place. But on the bright side tho....this does seperate those who are realli hard working and want 2 get a degree to better themselves from those who just go for the hell of it !
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      I believe SOME fees are necessary, almost like a necessary evil to prevent some tools going to university just for the night life. But to increase them so dramatically is insane, and is obviously just trying to preserve power within the rich.

      So therefore a believe the Student Protests are fine and I was going to attend yesterdays but unfortunately the transport around my area shut down yesterday so I couldn't get over to Manchester. I just hope genuine "anti fee" protesters aren't dragged more and more into the thugs game, because the media will take full advantage of it.
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      (Original post by yahyahyahs)
      Personally, I believe the fees are the only way our universities will be able to compete with the likes of US and increasingly China..
      Why? They won't be getting any more money than what they are now so why would the fees help us compete any more than what we are now.

      (Original post by Nouvelle vague)
      On Newsnight, after the first London protest, Paxman made a good point to the London University Union Leader saying that the show was going to talk about tutition fees - they had booked lecturers, students and politicians in to talk about the protest but because of you we now have to debate the limits of protest because of the violence you caused.
      But they didn't have to debate the limits of protest. They wanted to. They didn't have to.
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      (Original post by Poem boy)
      It is people like you that make Britain, the misreble foul smelling garbage heap of a country it is today.

      Education is a right and it should be free for all no matter what. The best countries in the world all have free education systems. If Britain carries on with this neoliberal route then we are all screwed.
      Actually its idiots like you who get all sensationalist and start declaring that Britain one of the most free and liberal countries in the world is a ''misreble foul smelling garbage heap of a country it is today.''
     
     
     
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