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David Cameron - "Before protesting, students need to get the facts straight." Watch

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    (Original post by mimimimi)
    I thought the government subsidised our tuition fees a lot, though? Perhaps at the moment, we pay £3,000 and the government pays the other £6,000. I don't think the universities are going to end up with more or less than what they get now, are they?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone, I'm not trying to argue from any point of authority here, I'm just trying to recall what I've heard...
    Well the average cost of an undergraduate degree is £7000, so at present I think the student pays £3000, and Government the rest - unless its a more expensive degree, like medicine, in which case the Government is paying alot more.

    So if fees are at £9000, universities will be getting £2000 extra funding for each student for most subjects. So in essence, it seems to me high fees are needed so that these won't be cuts - if that isn't too counter-intuitive

    But I'm not completely knowledgable on the system, so I could be wrong here.
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    While I kind of agreed with a lot of what he said there was something that annoyed me greatly:

    "A lot has been said in recent weeks about what is in the interests of students, but this government is also responsible for the interests of taxpayers — and at a time of real financial hardship, a time when we have no choice but to make cuts across public spending, I don't believe it is right that we ask those on low incomes to pay taxes to prop up an unaffordable university funding system that they are not benefiting from directly."

    He has a problem with tax payers financing something they don't benefit from directly? Can I ask then, how do they benefit directly from the war in Afghanistan? The trident system? Supplying benefits to the disabled, unemployed, e.t.c? It's quite a ridiculous claim to make, especially if some of these tax payers actually have children at university, then they re definitely benefiting from it.
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    :facepalm: Do people even realise what the thumbs down is for?

    if you dont see my statement as reality, your blind to the rest of the world.

    You see the charvs, chavs or whatever and lower class students starting to make an effort and change there ways? Without EMA they will say **** it. I know this because I go to college so dont tell me im wrong, everyone that i mention this to agrees with me also

    If your gonna cut ema, you gotta give alternative incentives. There aint hardlys any apprenticeships or jobs, so wheres the incentives?

    And no there aint no jobs, how? cause thats what a woman at the job center said.

    Cutting ship building jobs and giving them to poles is a prime example

    So if your gonna put thumbs down to a true statement, argue like a real politically minded person would do

    Dont just put thumbs down cos your sour and dont have a clue about the outside world. Thumbs down is meant for disagree, or stupid post

    Your stupid if you* think differently about it.

    Our generation is the main receptents of this Recession, its us who is going to see the worst of it, not yall already rich people or financially stable people

    THATS why students are so pissed off and they are using this to vent their emotion

    Why the **** should we pay for all yall mistakes? And yes im on about you taxpayers, because your the ones who vote and can choose to kick the government out of power if you wish to
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    (Original post by ilovemykitten)
    I hate that they are proclaiming their proposal that more successful people should pay more for their degree as 'fair'. IT IS NOT FAIR.

    A degree is just like any other economic good - we should pay a fixed price for it. When someone goes to the shop to buy a computer they dont pay a different price on the same product depending on whether they intend to use it to browse facebook, or whether they plan to program complex algorithms.

    Students should pay a set price for a degree in the same subject, at the same university - what they make of it, and what career they pursue is up to them, not dependent on the degree. I dont think I should pay more than the slacker who couldnt be bothered to do the coursework, because I end up getting a better qualification than him, and end up with a better job. The current scheme punishes success!
    Does it say the degrees will cost different amounts? No. More successful people will only end up paying more because it's a percentage of their wages, just like tax. Or have I misunderstood something?
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    (Original post by TedleyBear)
    :facepalm: do people even realise what the thumbs down is for?

    if you dont see my statement as reality, your blind to the rest of the world.

    You see the charvs, chavs or whatever and lower class students starting to make an effort and change there ways? Without EMA they will say **** it. I know this because I go to college so dont tell me im wrong, everyone that i mention this to agrees with me also

    If your gonna cut ema, you gotta give alternative incentives. There aint hardlys any apprenticeships or jobs, so wheres the incentives?

    And no there aint no jobs, how? cause thats what a woman at the job center said.

    Cutting ship building jobs and giving them to poles is a prime example

    so if your gonna put thumbs down to a true statement, argue like a real politically minded person would do

    dont just put thumbs down cos your sour and dont have a clue about the outside world. Thumbs down is meant for disagree, or stupid post

    your stupid if you dont think differently about it.

    Our generation is the main receptents of this Recession, its us who is going to see the worst of it, not yall already rich people or financially stable people

    THATS why students are so pissed off and they are using this to vent their emotion

    why the **** should we pay for all yall mistakes? and yes im on about you taxpayers, because your the ones who vote and can choose to kick the government out of power if you wish to
    instead of EMA why dont you give the kids book vouchers/bus passes etc. since this is what the money is meant to be spent on.
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    (Original post by Flob)
    Well the average cost of an undergraduate degree is £7000, so at present I think the student pays £3000, and Government the rest - unless its a more expensive degree, like medicine, in which case the Government is paying alot more.

    So if fees are at £9000, universities will be getting £2000 extra funding for each student for most subjects. So in essence, it seems to me high fees are needed so that these won't be cuts - if that isn't too counter-intuitive

    But I'm not completely knowledgable on the system, so I could be wrong here.
    Oh okay, that makes more sense then. I wasn't sure what the subsidised sum was - actually I doubt many people do actually know - but if that's the case then I'm all for the extra funding...

    Though I never understood what universities do with all that money - I guess that's why I'd be terrible at something like economics
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    (Original post by Square)
    instead of EMA why dont you give the kids book vouchers/bus passes etc. since this is what the money is meant to be spent on.
    I agree but this is not the point I am making, since students have started to recieve ema, lower classes and sometimes higher classes see it as a incentive to go to college since we have become so technologically lazy

    If your going to cut something which is making people go to college ( yes to spend on whatever they want, but they are used to it now ) then you need to provide incentives to do other things or if you wish them, or lower ages, to continue to go to college
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    (Original post by mimimimi)
    I thought the government subsidised our tuition fees a lot, though? Perhaps at the moment, we pay £3,000 and the government pays the other £6,000. I don't think the universities are going to end up with more or less than what they get now, are they?
    They're going to end up with less due to the huge cuts in teaching and research budget.
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    It's true. A lot of people have no idea about the reforms, they just feel like protesting.
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    EMA is a highly flawed system. I knew someone in my old school whos dad worked overseas as a chemical engineer and had a six figure salary yet he still legally got EMA and bragged about it. Loopholes like this discredit the whole system when tax payers' money ends up going to people that are better off than the majority of us.
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    Ame Mr Cameron. I swear to god half the people protesting don't actually know what the new system is, and all they do is say that it punishes poor children (Which it doesn't) and that it will cost 3 times as much (Which it won't for most people).
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    (Original post by ilovemykitten)
    The UNFAIRNESS of the new scheme - they are proposing that two people, having graduated with the same degree, from the same university, should pay different amounts for their degrees, depending on how successful they are!!! This is the part which REALLY makes me angry! It is absolutely unjust, and only appeases stupid people! Degrees should be treated as independent goods! The coalition is trying to use them as a way to tax rich people more, because they are too afraid of increasing direct taxation. Typical cowardly behaviour from the Lib Dems - no wonder it was Vince's idea. See my earlier post for details on why the scheme is unfair.
    When do they work out how much a degree costs, then? I don't understand. To be honest, though, if I'd got a degree and couldn't get myself a decent job with it, I'd be quite happy to pay less for it than someone doing a lot better than me with the same degree...

    What if someone wanted to pay upfront rather than with a loan? Does the university just pluck an amount out of the air?

    I feel like I've opened a can of worms here (and probably a load of neg rep is heading my way) but I don't actually know a huge lot about the funding cuts myself, partly because I'm lazy and partly because I'm out of the country so have missed out on a lot of the news on it...
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    (Original post by ilovemykitten)
    Yes, you have misunderstood, because they are doing a very good job of masking the reality.

    Here's a quote from the article
    It is fair that there is a link between the cost of a degree and the financial advantages it has brought. It is right that a high-earning executive should pay more than a teacher. Those who benefit will pay and those who benefit the most will pay the most.

    So if you and I both do the same degree, at the same university, but you end up with a higher paid job than me because of your better interpersonal skills, for example, you'll end up paying more for your degree in total. Precisely because it is a progressive taxation.

    I am all for paying a progressive portion of your income, depending on how much you earn - but the TOTAL paid for the degree should be the SAME. Under this scheme it isnt - there you have it, in Cameron's own words.

    Buying a degree is just like buying a computer, a sofa, a book. It should have a SET price - what you gain from it, what you do with it, is irrelevant.
    But the total paid for the degree isn't going to be the same under any system like this, because nobody will ever pay the whole thing off...
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    (Original post by Broderss)
    He is such a ****ing moron. These people protesting are anarchists taking any opportunity to riot and cause disruption. They don't believe the changes to funding are an issue, they are using it as an excuse to 'fight the man'.

    He is also a ****ing idiot for even thinking we need to reduce the deficit - we don't. These cuts are completely unnecessary. We do not need to save money, but even so why the **** so hard right now when we are barely out of a recession? The Tories are ****ing idiots. They'll never learn and neither will the voter. We will end up with an even bigger deficit and a reduced economy in the next few years I assure you.

    David Cameron is such a mug.
    Hello Mr Armchair Economist!

    Even Ed Milliband agrees we must lower the deficit. And pray tell how cutting, thus saving the country money - whilst injecting considerable stimulus into the economy - is going to give Britain a higher deficit? And why is there forecast growth for the foreseeable future? And why did we keep our AAA credit rating? And why is the pound at a high against both the Euro and Dollar? why does Market confidence in the pound grow every day? Why has the official forecast for job losses been downgraded for a second time?

    Must be something Labour did, of course!
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    (Original post by tieyourmotherdown)
    Ame Mr Cameron. I swear to god half the people protesting don't actually know what the new system is, and all they do is say that it punishes poor children (Which it doesn't) and that it will cost 3 times as much (Which it won't for most people).
    What, a recession with hardlys any jobs, increased crime and less policing and services doesnt punish poor children?

    ^.o

    it will when they go to prison and theyre family are forcing them to find some way of making money, which is what will happen

    You cant be poor or near that level, because if you were you would realise this

    *- and it doesnt matter what people should do, its what they WILL do

    (Original post by AskMeAnything)
    Hello Mr Armchair Economist!

    Even Ed Milliband agrees we must lower the deficit. And pray tell how cutting, thus saving the country money - whilst injecting considerable stimulus into the economy - is going to give Britain a higher deficit? And why is there forecast growth for the foreseeable future? And why did we keep our AAA credit rating? And why is the pound at a high against both the Euro and Dollar? why does Market confidence in the pound grow every day? Why has the official forecast for job losses been downgraded for a second time?

    Must be something Labour did, of course!
    Because our currency makes it so we pay alot more for items, so business' and entertainment from america have realised this and have started to take advantage. Plus the wikileaks would of weakened relations and the multiple ****holes america is getting involved in

    Pound is at its highest because the EU is becoming weaker and the US' dollar is becoming un-reliable, especially since china and russia have considered using theyre own currency for trade instead of the dollar. Plus the wikileaks would of weakened relations and the multiple ****holes america is getting involved in

    Were just lucky we dont have it as bad as other countrys.
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    (Original post by ilovemykitten)
    The UNFAIRNESS of the new scheme - they are proposing that two people, having graduated with the same degree, from the same university, should pay different amounts for their degrees, depending on how successful they are!!! This is the part which REALLY makes me angry! It is absolutely unjust, and only appeases stupid people! Degrees should be treated as independent goods! The coalition is trying to use them as a way to tax rich people more, because they are too afraid of increasing direct taxation. Typical cowardly behaviour from the Lib Dems - no wonder it was Vince's idea. See my earlier post for details on why the scheme is unfair.

    Next time - VOTE LABOUR
    You complain about progressive taxing and then tell people to vote Labour?

    Oh dear.
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    (Original post by TedleyBear)
    What, a recession with hardlys any jobs, increased crime and less policing and services doesnt punish poor children?

    ^.o

    it will when they go to prison and theyre family are forcing them to find some way of making money, which is what will happen

    You cant be poor or near that level, because if you were you would realise this
    I'm talking about the new university system, which doesn't require any fees to be paid up front and doesn't require anything to be paid back until they earn £21,000 a year, by which point they are definitely not poor anymore. If you think this punishes poor people then you've got a screw loose.

    I don't see how the recession comes into any of this, to be honest.
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    (Original post by ilovemykitten)
    I dont complain about progressive taxing - I complain about attaching different price tags to the same degrees, and punishing success. Read my FULL post before you complain.
    That IS progressive taxing :facepalm: Taxing people different amounts depending on what they earn is a form of progressive taxing, and that's how our tax system works, a system which is fully supported by Labour.

    Saying that you should vote Labour but saying you disagree with one example of progressive taxing is like saying "I like apples, but I can't stand the taste of apples". It makes no sense.
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    (Original post by tieyourmotherdown)
    I'm talking about the new university system, which doesn't require any fees to be paid up front and doesn't require anything to be paid back until they earn £21,000 a year, by which point they are definitely not poor anymore. If you think this punishes poor people then you've got a screw loose.

    I don't see how the recession comes into any of this, to be honest.
    This is what I can't understand... I'm going to have a relatively large debt (by today's students' standards) when I leave university (around £40,000) and have to start paying it off when I'm earning £15,000... I'd give anything to not have to pay it off until I'm earning £21,000!
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    (Original post by tieyourmotherdown)
    I'm talking about the new university system, which doesn't require any fees to be paid up front and doesn't require anything to be paid back until they earn £21,000 a year, by which point they are definitely not poor anymore. If you think this punishes poor people then you've got a screw loose.

    I don't see how the recession comes into any of this, to be honest.
    Its a forum, of open discussion. And ema was mentioned in this thread

    Apologies for the attack

    And when people make statements that students have got it good and nothing bad is going to really happen, i wish to state my opinion

    i didnt say the university system punishes poor people, or where you got the idea that I even support theyre stupid protests, im just stating my opinion.

    But from the fact you didnt state you were just on about university fees makes it reasonable for me to say that it will punish poor people, no loose screws here

    * Plus the fact that a protest is a way of expressing anger/disagreement, doesnt mean thats the only reason they are conciously protesting. Thus why I said about our generation suffering
 
 
 
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