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Will The Student Protests Work?... Watch

  • View Poll Results: Will The Protests Work?...
    Yes...
    10
    16.13%
    No...
    52
    83.87%

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    The first thing that needs to be addressed is the blatant discrimination here. It is only English students that will be faced with higher fees, not Scots or Welsh students. So, take the government to court? Possible grounds for a class action suit?
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    No, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't protest. For every lib dem we convince to vote against it the coalition gets weaker, which is only a good thing. Who knows, maybe we'll get some extra concessions as well?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    You might just as well bake yourself into a pie for what good this would do.
    Likely to work better than the protests.
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    there is an interesting point to see from this thread...its basically, you can say and do what you like, but the government are gonna do what they want, when they want...and theres nothing you can do to stop it...
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    (Original post by konvictz0007)
    I dont want the tuition fees to go up that much, its too unreasonable.

    However the government has a bad habbit of not listening to their people.

    So, ur opinion, will the protests eventually work?...if not, then how do you suggest we make it work?...
    On their own, probably not.

    But what people have forgotten is that the students have been hot off the mark in terms of using social networking to spread what they are doing and linking up with each other. Thus it gives a feel to a nationwide mass-movement - or the makings of.

    On top of that, the trade union movement has "woken up" to what the students are doing and is backing them. The mood within the unions is that they have been "shamed" by the students for not standing up strongly enough. That said, the strength of feeling in terms of "doing something" within the wider union movement is not there at the moment. Many people are still trying to come to terms with impending job cuts - and the scale of them.

    What will make a big difference I think is the following:
    1) What supporting role the non-students will play - the wider public sector, families and other groups that will be hit by the cuts
    2) What alternative Labour develops - if any - that is genuinely different to the programme of cuts. (And 'Not as much, not as fast' is not something I consider a policy alternative - it's a delivery alternative)
    3) The ability of the corporate press to hold the "we're in this together/there is no alternative" line as a number of proprietors - including Murdoch - have indicated
    4) The ability of "the movement" to make MPs nervous about keeping their seats at the next election
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    They are working already. You people are ridiculous!
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    no they won't because the rest of Britain is suffering and to watch spoilt little ****s taking out their anger on war memorials and towards the police who are only doing there job is disgraceful. there must be more people that feel the same as myself who would happily go to war with these future tory M.P.s and make no mistake in 20 years they will be the dictators forgetting all about their own actions just now and probably telling us of the broken society that we live in, they are scum!
    don't get me wrong i 100% agree with the protest but the ones who are the would be hard men and instigators are the ones who come from privaliged back grounds and should be paying [i.e. Charlie Gilmour ]. I am all for revolution but the people i want over thrown come from the same stock as these little ****s. If this was a working class demo or if the working class behave like this long jail sentences would be handed out. As an ex soldier watching this it seems that they have a problem with the war dead, well I have a problem with them and
    am ready to fight against them and so must others, even students who's cause and hard work is being hijacked by morons who in the future will make more rulings like this.
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    (Original post by the_13th)
    They are working already. You people are ridiculous!
    :facepalm2: Do you just ignore commons vote's or what?
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    I said yes but I'd have picked 'maybe' if it was an option.

    I think the protests have had some effect, given that its made the Lib Dems take a long hard look at theirselves and prompted some to rebel/abstain. It's certainly rocked the coalition and could be a tactical victory in a battle to bring the coalition down, since it will encourage opposition to the next controversial issue.
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    If people keep on protesting and the protests keep on turning into mini riots then there is a high chance that the protests will work, especially if the electronic media is used effectively to 'spread the movement'. Support for the protests seems higher than what the media will have you believe, from my experience with talking to patients. I have not met a single one against it actually and they all seem keen on talking about it. And everybody loves a good protest and naturally favours the underdog; the idea of students taking on the big bad government exerts a powerful pull over the minds of people.

    Also, the reputation of the police has taken a severe hit and they wont have the stomach for more mini riots. This would result in one of two things; the police getting complacent about policing the student protests and letting the students be which is a win-win for the students or the police getting even more violent possibly resulting in the deaths of a few protesters which would be a lose-lose for the government. The police and Government will lose all legitimacy and be exposed as oppressive dictators. Protests also tend to become revolutions when protesters die and revolutions are almost certain to work. However, while it would work the price could be worrying. Before expanding the protest to such a level one should ask oneself, Is it really worth it?
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    The response to protests about the Iraq war would suggest that they won't.

    In this case, it isn't merely about the government listening to the students in opposition to fee increases, but whether or not the protesters have a legitimate cause that is carried out methodically. One can understand a small degree of inconvenience being caused to the taxpayer at the hands of protests, but it surprises me that so little importance has been attributed by students to engaging taxpayers constructively and gaining their support in the cause. The Metropolitan Police are a largely admirable public service also facing a struggle at the hands of the deficit and that they should be subjected to quite intense violence from those who will not personally be paying the new tuition fees or even taxes at present makes taxpayers' bewilderment more comprehensible. Protesters lack that secure footing of ever being able to be a truly unified force: the different educational stages between them, the employment scenario and indeed, means testing create a strong difficulty in being able to confidently state whom will come off badly when the changes are brought into place. It goes without saying that I sympathise with those who are angered by the cuts, but view a great deal of how the protesting has been executed as nonsensical.
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    If you have taken a close incite into the students protests and how they have progressed: they are working.

    Every single protest becomes more violent, with more people taking part in that violence.

    The people are becoming more radicalised, and are willing to use more means to bring down their enemy. Therefore, from a revolutionary perspective, the protests are working entirely.

    For me and many others, the student protests are a small fraction of our actual and ultimate goal: that of a massive violent resistance to the status quo; imperialism and it's running dogs.
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    (Original post by the_13th)
    They are working already. You people are ridiculous!

    Why are lots of people on that facebook group you link to in your sig, accusing the organiser of being an EDL Troll?


    Just asking.

    http://szamko.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/fake-student-demo-planned-for-20-december/ is querying it

    The comments in http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/12/470639.html?c=on are querying it

    What's the score?
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      (Original post by konvictz0007)
      I dont want the tuition fees to go up that much, its too unreasonable.

      However the government has a bad habbit of not listening to their people.

      So, ur opinion, will the protests eventually work?...if not, then how do you suggest we make it work?...
      http://factsonfees.com/
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      (Original post by Blondshavemorefun)
      It won't work, the only hope it to present an economic case for making bigger cuts in something else. The majority of the population would have to support bigger cuts somewhere else which I don't think will happen. Most people that me and my friends talk to are not sympathetic to students and agree with the new proposals.
      theres a 40-12bn tax gap. No need for cuts to pay for education.
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      (Original post by konvictz0007)
      I dont want the tuition fees to go up that much, its too unreasonable.

      However the government has a bad habbit of not listening to their people.

      So, ur opinion, will the protests eventually work?...if not, then how do you suggest we make it work?...
      Already there have been some successes. Scotland & Wales have decided to keep fees as they are and keep EMA - no doubt the protests here helped that decision to be made. Some Lib Dems voted against - with an eye on the protests and keeping their seat no doubt. And I believe some concessions were gained along the way to the proposals and i don't think they came about because the governemnt suddenly decided they were a better idea more that they hoped to stem some of the protests with it.

      The government will listen - or give way - to people if they feel it is needed to secure there power. I.E when a big enough fuss kicks off, the country comes to a standstill, they will lose an election/their seat.

      The protest will work if the students join with the unions etc. TUC are organising a march - 26th March 2011 i think, hoping to get 1 million people on the street. This is a good start. Strikes, occupations etc will also be needed at the right time as the Iraq war protests showed us that protest by themselves are not enough.

      If this happens then the government will break - starting at its weakest Lib Dem link. 20 years ago the anti Poll Tax unions turned the iron lady to iron fillings. The Tories had a big majority then. This lot will fall much easier.

      The problem is Labour won't change anything, or very little, for the better. What it does do will be undone in the future - either by them or the Tories etc. at a later date.

      You need socialism to win this battle for good.
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      (Original post by blueblood18)
      If people keep on protesting and the protests keep on turning into mini riots then there is a high chance that the protests will work, especially if the electronic media is used effectively to 'spread the movement'. Support for the protests seems higher than what the media will have you believe, from my experience with talking to patients. I have not met a single one against it actually and they all seem keen on talking about it. And everybody loves a good protest and naturally favours the underdog; the idea of students taking on the big bad government exerts a powerful pull over the minds of people.

      Also, the reputation of the police has taken a severe hit and they wont have the stomach for more mini riots. This would result in one of two things; the police getting complacent about policing the student protests and letting the students be which is a win-win for the students or the police getting even more violent possibly resulting in the deaths of a few protesters which would be a lose-lose for the government. The police and Government will lose all legitimacy and be exposed as oppressive dictators. Protests also tend to become revolutions when protesters die and revolutions are almost certain to work. However, while it would work the price could be worrying. Before expanding the protest to such a level one should ask oneself, Is it really worth it?

      :facepalm2: So much fail.
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      (Original post by Aj12)
      :facepalm2: So much fail.
      Did you really quote me just to say that?

      If yes, did it make you feel better about yourself?

      If no, then I am waiting for whatever else you have to say.
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      (Original post by blueblood18)
      Did you really quote me just to say that?

      If yes, did it make you feel better about yourself?

      If no, then I am waiting for whatever else you have to say.
      Im not even going to bother. Your post fails on so many levels and has so much BS in it its unbelievable.

      Here is one for kicks. You think a protest of 10k students will launch a revolution? Lol
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      (Original post by Aj12)
      Im not even going to bother. Your post fails on so many levels and has so much BS in it its unbelievable.

      Here is one for kicks. You think a protest of 10k students will launch a revolution? Lol
      Come on, that is the ultimate admission of failure on these forums. I'm sure you can do better.

      Did I say that? Read carefully what I said again, particularly the sentence about protests tending to become revolutions (by this I mean widespread anarchy like riots) when protesters die. This is corroborated by history-the hungarian revolution of 1956 comes to mind which also began as a student protest of thousands and a student was killed. Please do not underestimate the human tendency to go beserk when pissed off. Human psychology is complex and not necessarily rational.

      And since the only way to find out is to see what happens if some protesters get killed, I'd suggest you stop pretending your viewpoint has any more merit than an opinion. The size of these protests and the 'violence' has already surprised many people.
     
     
     
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