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Getting irrtated by the governments social engineering of classes. Watch

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    (Original post by AshleyT)
    ......... (which i didn't apply for in first year since i thought someone else might need it more .
    Do not pity the government...

    Do you know how rich and well off the UK is? they can pretty much give every citizen 300 pounds a year for free...
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    (Original post by LawBore)
    Far, far too much. My books and stationery must cost just over £100.

    Decent pair of shoes= £40, let's say we buy two pairs.
    Pair of jeans= £10, let's have three.
    A decent suit can be as little as £15 from a charity shop, so we'll have one.
    Five t shirts and a jumper, £65,
    A winter coat £80.
    Estimates from different universities:

    Bristol: clothes £594, books £300
    Kent: clothes £400-1200, books £400-£600
    Edinburgh: clothes £500, books £315

    Given that pretty much all unis put the figures in the same sort of ballpark range, they're probably fairly accurate. Course required textbooks can often be £30-£50 so a book budget of £300/year seems reasonable (obviously depending on the course and quality of the uni libraries).

    Clothes costs obviously vary a lot more, but I imagine your underestimating your own costs quite a bit. I'd guess if you went through your bank statements you'd realize you spent quite a bit more on clothing. It's very easy to underestimate how much your spending and miss things out. After all I assume you have socks, underwear, belts, night clothes, summer jacket, shirts, ties, etc none of which you thought about when coming up with those numbers.
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    graciously given by the tax payer and government
    er. yes.
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    (Original post by AshleyT)
    But working for what you want is good for a person..And it's not like we're born in Africa, where if you're that poor it's near impossible to achieve what you want too. In the UK, you work hard enough, you can pretty much achieve anything...And the government just seem to continually take that away.
    I think you underestimate the difficulty. Imagine you're a kid in an inner city ghetto where almost everyone you know is unemployed, the only professionals you've ever met are your teachers and your doctor, your teachers spend most of their time trying to control the classroom rather than teach. You're in an environment where 5 A-Cs at GCSE are considered abnormally good. Your parents think education is stupid. Getting a cleaning job is something *people aspire to*.

    For kids in these situations dreaming about going to university is like dreaming about going to Hogwarts. Both seem about equally likely.
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    Unfortunately OP you're one of few who can see with semi-decent hard-work University is not out of bounds for anyone. Too many people happy to sit around and do nothing and then worry about their university places. I'm also from a lower class background like you and i'll be damned if it's going to stop me going to university.
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    (Original post by ttx)
    I think you underestimate the difficulty. Imagine you're a kid in an inner city ghetto where almost everyone you know is unemployed, the only professionals you've ever met are your teachers and your doctor, your teachers spend most of their time trying to control the classroom rather than teach. You're in an environment where 5 A-Cs at GCSE are considered abnormally good. Your parents think education is stupid. Getting a cleaning job is something *people aspire to*.

    For kids in these situations dreaming about going to university is like dreaming about going to Hogwarts. Both seem about equally likely.
    So essentially my background. Hasn't put me off. I'll definitely go to university and have 3 offers already from Imperial, Warwick and UCL.

    With a little hard work anyone can go to university. There's plenty of help available. The only difficulty I could see is motivation to go to university. I don't believe it's possible to not be able to go to university because of financial reasons. You might have to live at a slightly lower standard but it's definitely possible. That's why you work hard to go to top universities which usually offer substantially bigger bursaries to help with living costs.
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    (Original post by Fat-Love)
    So essentially my background. Hasn't put me off. I'll definitely go to university and have 3 offers already from Imperial, Warwick and UCL.
    Not to downplay your achievement, but you have internet access and presumably a computer at home. You're not on the bottom rung.
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    (Original post by ttx)
    Not to downplay your achievement, but you have internet access and presumably a computer at home. You're not on the bottom rung.
    I believe the government is handing out free laptops and internet now for those on low income backgrounds. ( I happen to be typing this on the laptop I recieved because of this intiative). I haven't used the internet though as my family can just about afford our own internet because a few years back my brother got a regular job so he could afford to contribute to household expenses. Believe me anyone poor would usually recieve enough benefits to afford internet. If they haven't it's probably because they're one of the elderly and not comfortable with installing something like that. I believe it cost around £5-10 a month minimum which is not a lot.
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    (Original post by ttx)
    I think you underestimate the difficulty. Imagine you're a kid in an inner city ghetto where almost everyone you know is unemployed, the only professionals you've ever met are your teachers and your doctor, your teachers spend most of their time trying to control the classroom rather than teach. You're in an environment where 5 A-Cs at GCSE are considered abnormally good. Your parents think education is stupid. Getting a cleaning job is something *people aspire to*.

    For kids in these situations dreaming about going to university is like dreaming about going to Hogwarts. Both seem about equally likely.

    http://www.upmystreet.com/local/neighbours-in-wd19.html

    Neighbourhoods fitting this profile can be found throughout the country, including in Motherwell, Knowsley, Dagenham, Hartlepool and Sunderland.

    These are poor families in low-rise estates.

    The estates are home to nearly as many single parents as traditional two parent families. There are many school age children and families are larger than average. There are also some couples whose children have left home. Housing is usually in the form of low-rise council terraces, perhaps with three bedrooms, but still crowded for the size of family.

    To be earning anything approaching an average income is rare. Long-term unemployment is high, and employment is routine factory or manual work.

    Travel is on foot or by public transport since few own a car.

    With money tight, food shopping might be in Aldi or Kwik Save. Clothes might be bought at Asda, New Look or frequently from catalogues.
    I live in one of those places.

    Most of my cousins(and i have about 50, no joke) were parents by 18. Having a child over the age of 25 is considered old.

    None of my aunts/uncles have custody over their children. Most have mental health problems, it's common to hear of suicide(my mum also tried to kill herself several times during my final A2 exams). There's a large amount of drug addicts in the area. The school i originally went to is being shut down, they also had their own police officers in the school and people were occasionally arrested on premises.

    I was given a lot of bull**** for attempting to get to University, most of my family members told me i 'would fail and be pregnant by 14'(like my cousin did) and be a drug addict/alcoholic like my Dad. I spent a few months in refuges(for safety reasons) and know what it's like to have absolutely nothing. The good thing though was meeting other's who were in even worse situations, Asylum seekers etc.

    A lot of people laughed at me whenever i said i was aiming for University. Some very nasty comments went round the family about me because of it.

    Again i'm not trying to 'oh look at what i accomplished', im simply trying to create an image of what the area is like.

    From my area i know about three people who have gone to University - The main problem i've seen is mostly the fact children don't realise that they CAN go to university as they are told by parents/family etc it's not possible because 'you have to be rich', so they don't aspire and work towards it.
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    (Original post by fat-love)
    so essentially my background. Hasn't put me off. I'll definitely go to university and have 3 offers already from imperial, warwick and ucl.

    With a little hard work anyone can go to university. There's plenty of help available. The only difficulty i could see is motivation to go to university. I don't believe it's possible to not be able to go to university because of financial reasons. You might have to live at a slightly lower standard but it's definitely possible. That's why you work hard to go to top universities which usually offer substantially bigger bursaries to help with living costs.
    well done you!!
    And yeah, this is kind of the point i'm trying to make.
    The problem isn't financial, it's motivation(which is not going to be generated by handing out loadsa money...)! And knowledge that it IS possible with hard work and dedication!
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Hopefully this will make a difference inasmuch as those unis which intend charging £9,000 a year will be compelled to admit more students from underperforming schools - the bane of the less advantaged:


    source: The Times newspaper 3/12/2010

    It has been suggested for a long time that this is the case...those from disadvantaged backgrounds with similar A-level results to those from independent or grammar schools achieve better outcomes...and now that the evidence is plain for all to see, it is morally encumbent upon the government to refuse those universites who are proposing to charge £9,000 the opportunity to do so, unless they can prove that their intake is majorly comprised of those from underperforming secondary schools.

    That will really give credence to their professed desire to increase social mobility.
    So what you're saying is that those who have to work to stay in uni have a greater work ethic, and it is therefore not beneficial to give them more grants and bursaries?
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    (Original post by ttx)
    Not to downplay your achievement, but you have internet access and presumably a computer at home. You're not on the bottom rung.
    My uncle hasn't worked in over 20 years and he has a pc and the internet. What else is he going to waste his life doing all day?
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    Politicians have to say those things, because the majority of the public have no idea how generous the current grants, bursaries and loans are. The ones who are really getting ****ed over are the students whose parents are just over the threshold for help, students with a large amount of siblings and students whose parents don't give them financial help. But I suppose that wouldn't make as a neat a political soundbite
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    (Original post by ttx)
    Estimates from different universities:

    Bristol: clothes £594, books £300
    Kent: clothes £400-1200, books £400-£600
    Edinburgh: clothes £500, books £315

    Given that pretty much all unis put the figures in the same sort of ballpark range, they're probably fairly accurate. Course required textbooks can often be £30-£50 so a book budget of £300/year seems reasonable (obviously depending on the course and quality of the uni libraries).

    Clothes costs obviously vary a lot more, but I imagine your underestimating your own costs quite a bit. I'd guess if you went through your bank statements you'd realize you spent quite a bit more on clothing. It's very easy to underestimate how much your spending and miss things out. After all I assume you have socks, underwear, belts, night clothes, summer jacket, shirts, ties, etc none of which you thought about when coming up with those numbers.
    It all depends where you shop plus lots of places offer student discount such as topshop e.t.c.
    I bought a coat, 4 t-shirts, 2 pairs of jeans, a pack of socks, a pack of pants and a 'going out' dress in primark and it came to less then £60 in the sale when I was working which was great.

    For books it depends on your course as well, if for your course you need books that came out this year (e.g. Law maybe) you'll need to buy them but if that wasn't a option then maybe get them out of either the university library or local library I know my college does year loans for books so you can have your text book for the whole year without having to worry about buying it or renewing it for certain subjects such as History.
    My cousin studied business at university and she lived at home and had a good paying job but she still ordered her text books off ebay as they were a lot cheaper then buying them first hand.
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    (Original post by AshleyT)
    http://www.upmystreet.com/local/neighbours-in-wd19.html



    I live in one of those places.

    Most of my cousins(and i have about 50, no joke) were parents by 18. Having a child over the age of 25 is considered old.

    None of my aunts/uncles have custody over their children. Most have mental health problems, it's common to hear of suicide(my mum also tried to kill herself several times during my final A2 exams). There's a large amount of drug addicts in the area. The school i originally went to is being shut down, they also had their own police officers in the school and people were occasionally arrested on premises.

    I was given a lot of bull**** for attempting to get to University, most of my family members told me i 'would fail and be pregnant by 14'(like my cousin did) and be a drug addict/alcoholic like my Dad. I spent a few months in refuges(for safety reasons) and know what it's like to have absolutely nothing. The good thing though was meeting other's who were in even worse situations, Asylum seekers etc.

    A lot of people laughed at me whenever i said i was aiming for University. Some very nasty comments went round the family about me because of it.

    Again i'm not trying to 'oh look at what i accomplished', im simply trying to create an image of what the area is like.

    From my area i know about three people who have gone to University - The main problem i've seen is mostly the fact children don't realise that they CAN go to university as they are told by parents/family etc it's not possible because 'you have to be rich', so they don't aspire and work towards it.
    I'm sorry but that up my street website is so wrong, that its hilarious I live in Sunderland and just typed in my postcode (I live in a Victorian Era house with 4/5 bedrooms as does everyone else on my street, everyone is pretty well off and everyone on my street works) and it says that its 3 bedroom council houses and that traditional jobs are blue collared with the main industries being mining and ship building which if you ask anyone with knowledge of the area will tell you is hilarious since 1 we no longer have any working mines and 2 we don't build ships anymore and 3 most people work white collar office jobs working 9-5.
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    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    I'm sorry but that up my street website is so wrong, that its hilarious I live in Sunderland and just typed in my postcode (I live in a Victorian Era house with 4/5 bedrooms as does everyone else on my street, everyone is pretty well off and everyone on my street works) and it says that its 3 bedroom council houses and that traditional jobs are blue collared with the main industries being mining and ship building which if you ask anyone with knowledge of the area will tell you is hilarious since 1 we no longer have any working mines and 2 we don't build ships anymore and 3 most people work white collar office jobs working 9-5.
    I was just trying to provide something more solid ...It's very accurate with my area though...off the top of my head i can think of one adult that works...most others are on the dole or benefits etc.

    Neighbouring areas basically see it as a chav estate with lots of 'yobs'.

    South Oxhey was on bbc choir ...although to be fair, even then they made it out worse then it is lol.
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    (Original post by AshleyT)
    I was just trying to provide something more solid ...It's very accurate with my area though...off the top of my head i can think of one adult that works...most others are on the dole or benefits etc.

    Neighbouring areas basically see it as a chav estate with lots of 'yobs'.

    South Oxhey was on bbc choir ...although to be fair, even then they made it out worse then it is lol.
    I know haha I'm just saying that it's completely wrong for where I live. (I typed the full postcode in not just the first half)

    Hope you don't take this too personally but the place you live doesn't sound too nice, we do have some places like that in Sunderland and I'm assuming everywhere else does too unless you live in the middle of no where like my parents.

    I suppose it's like everywhere though it's got its good parts and its bad parts, Sunderland is slap bang inbetween Newcastle and Durham who always seem to get good press, but all Sunderland gets is bad press (that dad whos got about 10+ kids and all the mams are on benefits and he doesn't pay CSA for example ) but I'm going off topic completely now haha
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    (Original post by caroline147)
    Politicians have to say those things, because the majority of the public have no idea how generous the current grants, bursaries and loans are. The ones who are really getting ****ed over are the students whose parents are just over the threshold for help, students with a large amount of siblings and students whose parents don't give them financial help. But I suppose that wouldn't make as a neat a political soundbite
    Agreed.

    I don't know such circumstances well, since i don't know that many people in them...but from what i gather - parents cant afford to give much to children(paying mortgages and stuff)...and students don't get much help from government either...

    The few i know in this situation i think took a gap year to save up.
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      (Original post by Elipsis)
      So what you're saying is that those who have to work to stay in uni have a greater work ethic, and it is therefore not beneficial to give them more grants and bursaries?
      Where does your interpretation come from? Certainly not from my post.
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      (Original post by yawn)
      Where does your interpretation come from? Certainly not from my post.
      Of course it comes from your point... The main defining difference between super rich children and super poor children who go to university is the disparity in wealth, which previously manifested itself in the poorer child needing to spend more time working alongside study.
     
     
     
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