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    (Original post by S129439)
    Not everybody has them. Quite the contrary. Loads of people don't have passports, drivers licenses etc. So perhaps a universal identification system would be of benefit.

    I'm playing devil's advocate here. I'm not entirely sure where to go with this.

    And ID cards won't do much towards preventing terrorism.
    sure, I get your point. but one system of identification just isn't secure enough. If I go to a bar I can show my (hypothetical) driving licence, passport and or Citizen Card (derived from some wacko scheme in the north east) depending on which bars I go to. I don't take my passport out because it's expensive, why then would I want to take out an ID Card which (which because it's universal...therefore) has evidence that I can drive and can fly in Europe and am not a member of al-Qaeda.

    Frgeries are hardly gonna be difficult on one card. I'm just skeptical. Maybe if they were optional it would be a better option, but the length of time wasted on debating about ID cards in Parliament makes it seem like they're gonna be the 'next big thing'.

    What if I lose my universal card of universal awesomeness? Am I deported within the next few days for not being able to prove i'm a citizen of The Great United Kingdom?
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    I'm not British.

    Coming from a different country where the rules are different, it is at first very hard to believe that your citizens do not need to carry around an IC. It is initially as hard to believe for me as it is hard for you (British citizens) to believe (if it were to happen right now) that it is compulsory to carry ICs around.

    In my country, you're required to have on your person your national IC at all times (I don't read the law but this is what I'm told). A cop can stop you and ask for it, if you fail to produce it you could/would be jailed and/or fined. Maybe a nice cop would let you "go home and get it", but I'm sure the basterds would just cause trouble for you.

    This may sound ridiculous. Even so, I do not always have my IC on me.

    Why are you guys saying it is expensive? Here we have to pay to get it replaced/renewed and it makes sense. However, if public money is used to fund it, its benefits outweight cost. If you bought everyone a bowl of rice it is gonna be bloody expensive for the entire population isn't it? ICs have virtually zero maintenance cost to the government.
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    (Original post by lightningfist)
    I'm not British.

    Coming from a different country where the rules are different, it is at first very hard to believe that your citizens do not need to carry around an IC. It is initially as hard to believe for me as it is hard for you (British citizens) to believe (if it were to happen right now) that it is compulsory to carry ICs around.

    In my country, you're required to have on your person your national IC at all times (I don't read the law but this is what I'm told). A cop can stop you and ask for it, if you fail to produce it you could/would be jailed and/or fined. Maybe a nice cop would let you "go home and get it", but I'm sure the basterds would just cause trouble for you.

    This may sound ridiculous. Even so, I do not always have my IC on me.

    Why are you guys saying it is expensive? Here we have to pay to get it replaced/renewed and it makes sense. However, if public money is used to fund it, its benefits outweight cost. If you bought everyone a bowl of rice it is gonna be bloody expensive for the entire population isn't it? ICs have virtually zero maintenance cost to the government.
    I find it amazing that someone should have to carry around an ID Card everywhere. Like I said before, how soon can I be deported from my own country if i've lost my card? It seems too....'Big Brother state' for me.

    This may sound ridiculous too, but i'm British and we are sick of being treated like cattle. That's my view anyways. There is CCTV literally everywhere, and too much health and safety for one person to even breathe without it being unsafe. It's like living in the Third Reich or something. why should we have something else to add to the list of things which take away our personal privacy and civil liberty?
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    (Original post by lightningfist)
    I'm not British.

    Why are you guys saying it is expensive? Here we have to pay to get it replaced/renewed and it makes sense. However, if public money is used to fund it, its benefits outweight cost. If you bought everyone a bowl of rice it is gonna be bloody expensive for the entire population isn't it? ICs have virtually zero maintenance cost to the government.
    There isn't any public money left. They keep telling us that. It would either cost me too much money, or cost the government too much money

    To argue from a purely financial point of view, I just don't think it's worth any money; as previous posters have said, it won't do much to tackle terrorism and is just another bit of silly plastic.
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    (Original post by S129439)
    It's interesting, but IMO there is no problem having ID. You need ID to drive, ID to buy alcohol, ID sometimes when using credit cards, ID to go in/out of the country etc. Why does having another piece of plastic handy "cross the line"?
    True, but ID for alcohol is to prevent underage drinking because it can affect your development etc.
    ID to cross borders is to prevent someone coming into the country who could be a threat to the public, or prevent a criminal escaping.
    ID to drive... well, if there were no driving liscenses then anybody could get in a car and drive down the street legally, regardless of skill or experience. I don't think I need to go into depth about why that would be bad lol!

    Ask yourself what the function of an ID card is though, and whether that function is really in our interests. Should we need an ID card to prove that we aren't terrorists?
    When I say 'cross the line' obviously everyone has a different opinion of where exactly 'the line' falls, so it was probably a bad choice of phrase lol
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    (Original post by lightningfist)

    In my country, you're required to have on your person your national IC at all times (I don't read the law but this is what I'm told). A cop can stop you and ask for it, if you fail to produce it you could/would be jailed and/or fined. Maybe a nice cop would let you "go home and get it", but I'm sure the basterds would just cause trouble for you.
    .
    exactly. THATS why we dont want them. another 'crime' to commit when in reality it makes no difference to anybodies lives whether we have a stupid card on us or not
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    Infringement of our liberties.
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    (Original post by S129439)
    Drivers license is a form of ID

    You get asked for ID when buying alcohol

    And more and more often, places ask for ID when someone makes a purchase using a credit card.

    I have never been asked for ID while driving, buying drink or using a CC, you must look very dodgy if you get asked for them. I look normal and honest so I never do.

    Pehaps, ID cards should be compulsory for dishonest looking people but optional for normal people.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I have never been asked for ID while driving, buying drink or using a CC, you must look very dodgy if you get asked for them. I look normal and honest so I never do.

    Pehaps, ID cards should be compulsory for dishonest looking people but optional for normal people.
    It is illegal to drive without a driving license, that's the ID he/she's referring to. If you get pulled over by the police, you will be asked to show it. If you haven't got one, you aren't allowed to drive. You don't have to drive, it isn't necessary to have ID.

    ID is useful for buying alcohol if you don't look old enough. It isn't compulsory, and it isn't even a legal requirement for them to ID you if you look underage, as long as they know you're not underage. So that again is different from being forced to have an ID card on you at all times.

    I don't have a credit card, but I think like most things you have to provide some form of ID to set it up. I don't really know about that one though.

    All of these bits of plastic serve a purpose, and aren't actually compulsory, although they can make your life easier. The ID card and the national database that would come with its purpose is debatable and is debated, and would be compulsory. That's how it's fundamentally different. The government is gathering information about you in one place that it can't actually afford to safeguard properly, and is making you have a piece of plastic to prove that you're you, and you can be fined/arrested for not having it on you...can't you see that that's a bit dicky?
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I have never been asked for ID while driving, buying drink or using a CC, you must look very dodgy if you get asked for them. I look normal and honest so I never do.

    Pehaps, ID cards should be compulsory for dishonest looking people but optional for normal people.
    Lol people don't always get ID'd because they look 'dodgy'. Mostly it's regulation. For example the police are required in allocated areas to ID EVERYONE. So just because you haven't been ID'd yet doesn't mean you wont be.

    And I don't get asked. I'm 17 and I don't drive :P As for booze, well I suppose I look old enough :woo:
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    (Original post by Potiron)
    It is illegal to drive without a driving license, that's the ID he/she's referring to. If you get pulled over by the police, you will be asked to show it. If you haven't got one, you aren't allowed to drive. You don't have to drive, it isn't necessary to have ID.

    ID is useful for buying alcohol if you don't look old enough. It isn't compulsory, and it isn't even a legal requirement for them to ID you if you look underage, as long as they know you're not underage. So that again is different from being forced to have an ID card on you at all times.

    I don't have a credit card, but I think like most things you have to provide some form of ID to set it up. I don't really know about that one though.

    All of these bits of plastic serve a purpose, and aren't actually compulsory, although they can make your life easier. The ID card and the national database that would come with its purpose is debatable and is debated, and would be compulsory. That's how it's fundamentally different. The government is gathering information about you in one place that it can't actually afford to safeguard properly, and is making you have a piece of plastic to prove that you're you, and you can be fined/arrested for not having it on you...can't you see that that's a bit dicky?
    Well I don't mind the police knowing things about me from a card because if you refuse to co-operate you get taken down the station and interviewed. The only thing you can do then is refuse to speak and look guilty or just tell them what they were asking you when they stopped you.

    Besides I ALWAYS carry my phone, keys and wallet wherever I go so if you just slot your ID card in your wallet or just be bothered to carry it around then there's no problem?
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    (Original post by S129439)
    Why are they a waste?

    £5 billion is a LOT of money tbf.

    Do you know what they aim to do (other than prevent terrorism :L)
    Who cares they have been scrapped as there was no point. Most people carry a license with them anyway
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    I think it's redundant. but as a form of identification in getting a loan or using state services, then why not?

    It would not infringe on civil liberties if it were only used for verification purposes.
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    (Original post by grth)
    i carry enough bloody ID in my pocket. What makes this bit of plastic more truthful than the rest?

    The fact that biometrics are nigh-impossible to forge maybe?
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Who cares they have been scrapped as there was no point. Most people carry a license with them anyway
    But part of the point is that not all people carry licenses. The government wants a form of ID that applies to ALL not 'most'.
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    (Original post by S129439)
    But part of the point is that not all people carry licenses. The government wants a form of ID that applies to ALL not 'most'.
    But the government has scrapped the plans. There would be no point to ID cards at all. They would serve no purpose
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    (Original post by Barden)
    The fact that biometrics are nigh-impossible to forge maybe?
    Huh? Correct me if i'm wrong, but when you say biometrics you're referring to iris recognition, retina scans ad DNA sampling? How on earth does one suggest that this data can be accessed with just a card?
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    But the government has scrapped the plans. There would be no point to ID cards at all. They would serve no purpose
    Well yeah I know but I'm asking about the idea itself regardless of whether they scrapped it or not.
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    (Original post by S129439)
    Well yeah I know but I'm asking about the idea itself regardless of whether they scrapped it or not.
    Because it would cost a load of money to do it. Most people would not carry them anyway and the orginal idea included having your finger prints put in a massive database. Many people see this as a massive invasion of their personal liberty and privacy something that is meant to be held in high regard in a free democratic society
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    (Original post by grth)
    Huh? Correct me if i'm wrong, but when you say biometrics you're referring to iris recognition, retina scans ad DNA sampling? How on earth does one suggest that this data can be accessed with just a card?

    For someone who feels it pertinent to express a view on the ID cards, as they were proposed, you clearly know very little about them.

    They were to hold the biometric information you mentioned, so as to be irrefutable proof as to the carrier's identity.

    The data would be stored on a chip, thus allowing for other data to be stored alongside it - e.g. drivers' license, passport details etc.

    So in fact you would have fewer documents on you, or in your pocket as you mentioned...
 
 
 
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