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Poorer students will now get 2 free years uni. another attack on middle income family Watch

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    (Original post by morecambebay)
    How? what on? Do you not think that if they knew how to close the gap they would? Do you think it is done with new textbooks/ a few extra staff hanging around? It is a home thing...I suppose they could give poor people big tax breaks and a **** load of benefits to close the gap, but you would complain about that aswell wouldnt you.
    Benefits no as long as they actually attempted to do something. Those that do nothing and are not ill or anything annoy but I understand that poverty is a massive problem with many families in these problems due to no fault of their own.
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    (Original post by Planto)
    No, they won't. They will be in exactly the same position as they were before. Life is not a competition. Someone else getting a helping hand does not equate to you being **** on. If you disagree, I would propose that you are extremely selfish, jealous and petty.
    Actually no I am not selfish, jealous and petty. Ask anyone who actually knows me and they will tell you the opposite. I understand that life is not a competition and yes we will be in the same position however no one else will. The thing is, why is it that it is your income that pays back the loan afterwards and has nothing to do with your parents income however how much you get depends on your parents? There are other fairer ways to get a helping hand than this. Its your independent life going to uni and nothing to do with your parents income. For many you are on your own with no help from your parents, starting off.
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    (Original post by jamesman13)
    Thousands of university students from poorer backgrounds could have their tuition fees paid for up to two years under new government proposals.

    If students arent expected to pay anything back until they are in high earning jobs what difference does their background make? Yet again the rich dont worry - the poorest get free.... and the middle income families struggle and pay the bill.

    my parents earn a little more than 'poor' families which doesnt mean their extra income can be used to pay off my student debts! the conservatives are meant to represent middle income families affected by the 'income trap', obviously not.
    The new proposals are just for people on free school meals, which doesn't include everyone who is lower class... so it's an attack on those people even more so than middle class people.
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    (Original post by Tabers)
    Its your independent life going to uni and nothing to do with your parents income
    This may be your individual circumstance but the vast majority of people receive a lot of support from their parents throughout university. Beyond that, you have utterly missed my point again. The fact that you are complaining that it isn't fair IS jealous and petty. This scheme makes it easier for others; it makes it no harder for you. If complaining about something because it only benefits other people and not you isn't selfish, I'm not sure what is.

    For the record, I agree that - since student loans are in place - this scheme would not really solve any problems, but your reasoning seems to be based more on petty complaints of unfairness than any actual practical concern.
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    So what happens if you come from a family where parents earn 50,000 or so a year, but they tell you that the day you leave home you're on our own?
    Surely it's not fair to say that because your parents earn a certain amount of money, then you as an individual shouldn't be able to get the same help as someone whos parents don't. Once you turn 18 your parents don't have to support you regardless of what they earn. On forms for financial help I havn't found one yet with the option "does parents earn more than 35,000 a year, but refuse to help you once you leave".
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    (Original post by Tabers)
    This is an attack on middle class familes because they will be the worse off out of all of this. What have your parents income got to do with your ability to pay back your loan at the end?
    :facepalm:
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      (Original post by Winter Rain)
      So what happens if you come of a family where parents earn 50,000 or so a year, but they tell you that the day you leave home we're on our own?
      Surely it's not fair to say that because your parents earn a certain amount of money, then you as an individual shouldn't be able to get the same help as someone whos parents don't. Once you turn 18 your parents don't have to support you regardless of what they earn. On forms for financial help I havn't found one yet with the option "does parents earn more than 35,000 a year, but refuse to help you once you leave".
      Then

      a) your parents are *****
      and,
      b) even if you never have any contact with them after your 18th birthday, you still would have benefited from not growing up in a poor household.
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      I agree, I think it's unfair everything is based on parents income. I worked really hard to get my 2 A*'s and 2 A's at A-level and come from just above the threshold for the additional help.
      And I just like to say the point of this thread isn't saying don't give money to the people who don't come a deprived background, but give it to them if they've got the grades not just based on their parents income.
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      (Original post by morecambebay)
      Then

      a) your parents are *****,
      b) even if you never have any contact with them after your 18th birthday, you still would have benefited from not growing up in a poor household.
      Hope you don't mine telling me exactly how your benefiting from that? I'm just failing to see why someone in that situation shouldn't be able to get the same support as someone who has grown up in a poor household. Surely when you leave home you should be on equal terms to other people with no financial support from parents. The parents might be *****, but what does that have to do with the child?
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        (Original post by Winter Rain)
        Hope you don't mine telling me exactly how your benefit from that? I'm just failing to see why someone in that situation shouldn't be able to get the same support as someone who has grown up in a poor household. Surely when you leave home you should be on equal terms to other people with no financial support from parents. The parents might be *****, but what does that have to do with the child?
        I posted a link before showing the educational disadvantage that children from poor households have.

        Being from a poor household isnt just about having less money. It makes you less likely to succeed.

        You are a lot more likely to succed in life than you would have been if you were born poor. It is called the poverty trap for a reason.
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        I have no parents (household income is £0), how much help can I expect to get?
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        (Original post by morecambebay)
        I posted a link before showing the educational disadvantage that children from poor households have.

        Being from a poor household isnt just about having less money. It makes you less likely to succeed.

        You are a lot more likely to succed in life than you would have been if you were born poor. It is called the poverty trap for a reason.
        But you still didn't answer my question, what is a child from a wealthy family suppose to do if their parents refuse to support them above the age of 18, and why should these children less entitled to get financial help?
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          (Original post by Winter Rain)
          But you still didn't answer my question, what is a child from a wealthy family suppose to do if their parents refuse to support them above the age of 18, and why should these children less entitled to get financial help?
          They take out student loans. They are less entitled to financial help because they arent carrying around the burden of growing up in a poor household.
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          My Dad is the only one bringing an income into the house, he often works 72+ hours in a week, alot of which is overtime on 12 hour shifts in a factory. I missed out on claiming EMA by about £70, and I certainly won't be getting any benefit from this new addition to the Policy. I come from a working class background, but am lucky to have such a hard working Dad who has finally managed to get a secure job in the last 6 years. This hardwork is apparently going against us yet again. I don't disagree that less well off people shouldn't get help, I think thats right. What I do disagree with is the tripling of the Fee's, the benefits for Welsh/Scottish Students and the massive cuts which will close Universities and reduce the quality in the education. I think it's short term thinking, from what is likely to be a short term Coalition.
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          (Original post by morecambebay)
          They take out student loans. They are less entitled to financial help because they arent carrying around the burden of growing up in a poor household.
          I'm going to have to respectfully disagree, I think once people leave home, they should be on equal grounds to everyone else who are not recieving any help from their parents. Regardless of what their parents earned to start with.

          If people from a poorer background get financial help and then land a job where they would have to pay the loan off that others took if they themselfs had to take one, clearly they are just as able to succeed. If they are not able to get these jobs with or without help, then maybe the money shouldn't have been invested in them in the first place. So either way I'm back to start thinking about why these people should get any more help than others.
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          It is ****. Why do they get some free education, when others don't? :sad:
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            (Original post by Winter Rain)
            I'm going to have to respectfully disagree, I think once people leave home, they should be on equal grounds to everyone else who are not recieving any help from their parents. Regardless of what their parents earned to start with.

            If people from a poorer background get financial help and then land a job where they would have to pay the loan off that others took if they themselfs had to take one, clearly they are just as able to succeed. If they are not able to get these jobs with or without help, then maybe the money shouldn't have been invested in them in the first place. So either way I'm back to start thinking about why these people should get any more help than others.
            So, just to make sure im clear, you are saying that if by pure accident of birth a child is born into a family situation which will make it more difficult for them to succeed...they shouldnt be given any extra help?

            Edit: Just because the law says that you become an adult at 18, it does not mean that the problems of a difficult childhood magically disappear.
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            (Original post by Winter Rain)
            why these people should get any more help than others.
            John was brought up on a council estate with an absent father and a crack-addled mother, living off a paltry income. He attended a crappy, failing state school, but did his best and managed to scrape an offer for university.

            Mary was brought up in a nice detached house in a pleasant area. She lives with her parents and her pet dog. She attended a good school and her loving parents supported her and helped her with her education, helping her with homework and buying her revision guides. Now she's off to university.

            So you're telling me at the age of 18 these people are off to exactly the same start and should get the same amount of help? Bull****.
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            (Original post by morecambebay)
            So, just to make sure im clear, you are saying that if by pure accident of birth a child is born into a family situation which will make it more difficult for them to succeed...they shouldnt be given any extra help?
            (Original post by Cicerao)
            John was brought up on a council estate with an absent father and a crack-addled mother, living off a paltry income. He attended a crappy, failing state school, but did his best and managed to scrape an offer for university.

            Mary was brought up in a nice detached house in a pleasant area. She lives with her parents and her pet dog. She attended a good school and her loving parents supported her and helped her with her education, helping her with homework and buying her revision guides. Now she's off to university.

            So you're telling me at the age of 18 these people are off to exactly the same start and should get the same amount of help? Bull****.
            To the both of you, I'm saying that those who's parents refuse to support them will find it just as difficult to pay for unviersity. If a person from a poor background and one from a wealthy, both get offers, because they worked hard, got into the same university, and neither of their parents helped. Either because they couldn't or because they won't. Why is the other one more entitled than the other when neither of them will have mummy deposit 5,000 a month in their bank account?

            I never said it was easy for those from a poor background, but that shouldn't make them more entitled to support, above all others, which is what you two seem to be saying.
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            (Original post by Winter Rain)
            To the both of you, I'm saying that those who's parents refuse to support them will find it just as difficult to pay for unviersity. If a person from a poor background and one from a wealthy, both get offers, because they worked hard, got into the same university, and neither of their parents helped. Either because they couldn't or because they won't. Why if the other one more entitled than the other when neither of them will have mummy deposit 5,000 a month in their bank account?

            I never said it was easy for those from a poor background, but that shouldn't make them more entitled to support, above all others, which is what you two seem to be saying.
            Maybe you might not be getting money off your parents, but I sure as hell if you got into any trouble they'd bail you out, if you were desperate for food they'd get you some. If you dropped out they'd take you back into their home. You and other middle class people may have a safety net, but many lower class people do not.

            And I'm sorry, if you're going to tell me your parents wouldn't do any of the above, you're bull****ting. Do not overestimate your own independence.
           
           
           
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