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Why does the government calculate student poorness by family income? Watch

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    So what you really meant to say was - 'My parents earn 200k between them but I want more money from the government'.
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    The only fair thing to do is give everyone the same, same fees, same maintainence loans (that actually cover the costs of living). Why is its acceptable that someone can walk out of university with less debt because their parents are earning less before they go to university is an interesting one.

    The analogy of going into a shop and buying a tv but the price tag being dependent on your parents salary comes to mind.
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    (Original post by StakedSalmon)
    If kids can prove that they truly are financially independant of their families, then it doesn't matter how rich they are; said kids will get the support they need.
    Could you elaborate on how this can be done coz as far as i could see on the Student Finance website u have 2 have been living away from home for at least 3 years in order to be considered financially independant of ur parents.
    Eg. a friend of mine whos dad earns a six figure salary but he doesnt give her a penny unless she does exactly what he wants her to do. She does not want t go ahead with the career in Accounting that he has chosen for her, she wants to be a nurse so she'll have 2 leave home and go 2 uni and her dad will not give her a penny. As it happens Nursing fees are paid by the NHS but she will still need money to live off and since she wont have been away from her dad 4 3 years i dont think shell be financed. So how does it work in a situation like that?
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    Yes, well done. It's an imperfect system.

    But, to introduce measures against the issues you have mentioned would require even more admin and bureaucracy leaving it more expensive, time-consuming and prone to leakages.
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    (Original post by morecambebay)
    Poor ****ing rich kids, they have it so hard.
    That doesn't make much sense. Even if someone comes from a rich background but are given no money by their parents, they are then in a worse position than a poor guy who gets given grants by the government.

    (I don't necessarily agree with the idea in the OP)
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      (Original post by the_second)
      That doesn't make much sense. Even if someone comes from a rich background but are given no money by their parents, they are then in a worse position than a poor guy who gets given grants by the government.

      (I don't necessarily agree with the idea in the OP)
      Financially they may be in a worse position. But family income is about much much more than finances. Children from poor families are born into disadvantage, and this article says that the gap just gets bigger.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6989177.stm
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      (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
      His father has said he won't give him any money towards his education.

      They are going to send him a decent amount of money every month for living expenses.
      Why are you assuming that?
      Generalising I know, but usually its the richer parents who give money to their kids. Most poorer parents simply cannot afford to give money to their kids at uni.
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      (Original post by morecambebay)
      Poor ****ing rich kids, they have it so hard.
      No they don't, Its the middle class that get it worse.

      Should just give a tuition fee loan of £3290 per year and a maintenance loan of £6000 to everyone (regardless of income) every year. It has to be paid back anyway.

      Then if you need it, its available, but you also take on more debt at the end. Thats fair I think. You apply for how much you need.

      Also not all students get support from parents.
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      (Original post by Silly Goose)
      What about just having maintenance loans (that are actually enough to live on) available to everyone and getting rid of grants altogether?
      Well thank **** someone said it.
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      One point missed above is that, certainly in Scotland, parents have a legal obligation to support their children through full time further education.

      The undernoted is from the SAAS website,

      "Why do you take my parents income into account?

      Under the Family Law ( Scotland ) Act 1985, parents have a general obligation to support their children, depending on the particular circumstances of the case. This obligation also applies to children over 18 and up to 25 who are in further education or training. "

      There was a case in Scotland within the last few years, brought by the child, where the courts upheld this obligation. Whilst the case from memory was in regard to separated parents, the general argument should hold even if the parents are still together.

      I have no idea if the same or similar obligation is inherent within English Law.

      I must say it would be a somewhat crossing the Rubicon moment for a child to raise such an action against their parents, vis a vis the ongoing relationship, however if that is honestly non existant it may be the only step left to the child.

      Accordingly this is why SAAS take family income into account and it is why I support my own son at University.

      ( Actually I expect I would do that anyway, despite the state he leaves his room when he returns to University after holidays. I received support from the state for my first degree, he should receive similar, if not from the state then from myself)
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      I personally don't understand a system that can treat fully mentally capable adults and dependants as being reasonable. There is a much easier way to fund higher education that by-and-large gets those who benefit to pay a larger share.
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      It is far better for the government to implement blanket policies and be able to help out most people who need it, than to assess each case on its own merits and to give everyone a tiny bit of support which won't actually help them, having spent most of the available funds on administration etc.

      Ironic, given that it was Thatcher herself who described socialism as a doctrine of making everybody equally poor :rolleyes:
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      (Original post by Barden)
      It is far better for the government to implement blanket policies and be able to help out most people who need it, than to assess each case on its own merits and to give everyone a tiny bit of support which won't actually help them, having spent most of the available funds on administration etc.
      And it's better still to have a system where everyone is treated equally so the government doesn't need to assess anyone.
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      I hardly know anyone who get's money from their parents whilst at Uni. Even if their parents are deemed rich enough to do so. I think there should be a system where everyone is allowed access to a £6000 maintenance loan if they want to.
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      There are exceptions to every benefit.

      You got kids who didn't need EMA getting it and kids who needed EMA not getting it.

      Unfortunately, as has been mentioned in this thread, we don't have the resources to give everyone the same loan, nor do we have the resources to do an in-depth assessment of the parent/guardians financial situation.

      Means-tested benefits are not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but they are intended to give the benefit to the people who need it the most, i.e., they have the least money.

      Yes, some kids DO miss out if they have wealthy parents who are unwilling to part with cash, or have so many other financial constraints on their wages that they can't afford it. I'm sure if the government could afford to give every student the full maintenance loan, they would. I'm in favour of a maintenance loan for all students, though I do concede it would seem a touch unfair that even the children whose parents give them £100 a week still get the full maintenance loan on top of that...
     
     
     
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