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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Oh and his tutor has started disciplinary action against the boy that blackmailed him
    Why are your family helping them?

    Is it you :hmmm:
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    I'm only posting how this ended because it might help someone else in the future.

    Right this is the closest to the right answer. I say right answer because this situation came to a conclusion just now.

    He hadn't paid for second year tuition in India or even taken his final exams for first year (He got the offer before they started) So his admission to the other medical school wasn't an issue.

    Everyone going on about lying by omission being the same as lying is wrong. My uncle rang a lawyer before him and my dad escorted this boy to the university to talk to his tutor. My friends university does not come up on the UCAS list of prior institutions so he said he assumed he need not mention it.

    Everyone going on about how KCL can just chuck him out is wrong to as he was told he had a good chance in a legal battle because for a start your UCAS form isn't a compulsary biography. You don't have to put everything on there. KCL had the right to ask him if he had previously attended medical school but they never did. The lawyer said that there are legitimate reasons to kick somebody out of university but this wasn't it. Especially seeing as he has NEVER taken a student loan out or attended an institution in UK. I assume KCL's no student who has previously attended medical school thing only applies for UK medical school/

    From what I hear his tutor wasn't even that annoyed but before people think this is ok. The main reason he got away with this was because the other course was in India. Meaning he has never been in a government supported institute. He was told if his other course had been in England he may of been kicked out but as it's India it's no problem.

    Everyone in my house has been going crazy about this but I knew this would be the outcome. KCL have no right to ruin someones life and waste a year (or two years if he can't apply in time) for this reason. Lying on a UCAS form is not ok but I don't believe he did this. Why is the fact he attended another medical school even relevant ? Oh how dare he spend a year gaining more medical knowledge. What would KCL say in court when they were asked how him going to medical school in another country affected his right to go to medical school here as well ? KCL or any other medical school (not sure about this just what my cousin informed us about) do not state in the entrance requirements or any other clearly visible place that attending another medical school means you cannot come to KCL. This is why he would of had a right to challenge the decision and probably win.

    Apparently if you've attended another UK institution UCAS know about it anyway so they can inform the university.

    Before people start negging me this is all information that was told to us by a lawyer/ my friends tutor/ the people my family contacted for advice.
    Your friend did theoretically break the UCAS rules regardless of whether the indian institution is on the list or not. It isn't a biography but it asks for all institutions that have been attended. The GMC when they find out eventually will not like this at all and your friend's career is still in great jeopardy because he has been dishonest.

    If this is true and your friend is still at kcl studying medicine then a very very very lucky becuase tbh if this was any other med school they would have kicked him out straight away without question.

    I seriously advise your friend (even if the issue has been cleared up) to google the case of Dr Prabhu Satya and look at the documents from his court appearance which are freely available from the gmc website.
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    (Original post by Kaykiie)
    Why are your family helping them?

    Is it you :hmmm:
    Look at my posting history. I'm on a gap year.

    I don't know this guy very well but when I was applying for pharmacy his parents did so much to help me. I'm just glad my parents could turn it around and help him.
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    (Original post by sd91)
    Your friend did theoretically break the UCAS rules regardless of whether the indian institution is on the list or not. It isn't a biography but it asks for all institutions that have been attended. The GMC when they find out eventually will not like this at all and your friend's career is still in great jeopardy because he has been dishonest.

    If this is true and your friend is still at kcl studying medicine then a very very very lucky becuase tbh if this was any other med school they would have kicked him out straight away without question.

    I seriously advise your friend (even if the issue has been cleared up) to google the case of Dr Prabhu Satya and look at the documents from his court appearance which are freely available from the gmc website.
    Wow when I mentioned his name like everybody in the room knew about him Apparently the reason he got in trouble was that he lied about failing a major exam in the latter stages of medical school right ? A really important one. He also lied about his test scores by inflating them a lot. Especially in relation to the people he knew was applying to the same hospital. Even by accessing there test results he broke a rule.

    The main problem with him was he lied once about the fact his clinical skills as a junior doctor were assessed as being below the requirements. He said these were rated as excellent at his next interview leading to him getting a higly competitive place.

    He lied on 5/6 separate occasions and all of those times he prevented someone else from gaining a place on a course/felowship.

    I know my friend could get in trouble later but unless he does a few more bad things he wont be taken of a register or anything like that.

    Some of that might be wrong as it's just what my dad said from memory.

    Don't get me wrong we aren't exactly having a party over here. We're just relieved he still gets to stay in medical school.
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Wow when I mentioned his name like everybody in the room knew about him Apparently the reason he got in trouble was that he lied about failing a major exam in the latter stages of medical school right ? A really important one. He also lied about his test scores by inflating them a lot. Especially in relation to the people he knew was applying to the same hospital. Even by accessing there test results he broke a rule.

    The main problem with him was he lied once about the fact his clinical skills as a junior doctor were assessed as being below the requirements. He said these were rated as excellent at his next interview leading to him getting a higly competitive place.

    He lied on 5/6 separate occasions and all of those times he prevented someone else from gaining a place on a course/felowship.

    I know my friend could get in trouble later but unless he does a few more bad things he wont be taken of a register or anything like that.

    Some of that might be wrong as it's just what my dad said from memory.

    Don't get me wrong we aren't exactly having a party over here. We're just relieved he still gets to stay in medical school.
    Yeah, I can udnerstnad how nervewracking it is but he can't get through the profession lying like this now - just be grateful. Look at the court documents from the GMC beccuase in addition to what you have said, satya also lied and said he had a biochem degree from cambridge when he did a year of it at sussex uni, said he had a masters as well but really he was a med student a st georges. He got kicked out of st georges in his final year and if he had put this on his UCAS form southampton would never have given him a place and he would be a dr. The UCAS form is where the web of lies started...
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    I'm pretty sure lying by omission is just as bad as writing down something that is a lie.
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    (Original post by sd91)
    Yeah, I can udnerstnad how nervewracking it is but he can't get through the profession lying like this now - just be grateful. Look at the court documents from the GMC beccuase in addition to what you have said, satya also lied and said he had a biochem degree from cambridge when he did a year of it at sussex uni, said he had a masters as well but really he was a med student a st georges. He got kicked out of st georges in his final year and if he had put this on his UCAS form southampton would never have given him a place and he would be a dr. The UCAS form is where the web of lies started...
    Sorry I think you're blowing it out of proportion ... a lot. I know what he did was wrong but you're comparing it to someone that was a compulsive liar and who actively deceived medical school. Then there's the fact that both his med schools were government funded. So 5 years of St George's could of been for someone else to get a full medical education.

    Also he lied about his training being deemed below acceptable. That's endangering patient lives.

    I know people that have lied about volunteering on there UCAS form. I know 3 or 4 people who have started an undergraduate degree and applied to medicine at the same time and not said about it. All those worse than what this guy did. My dads been a doctor for 29 years, my uncle for 36 years. I doubt they would let him carry on with medicine if he was just going to be struck of the register.

    I don't really know about this but from 10 adults and 23 kids in my extended family, Only me and one other person are not in the medical field. They have all weighed in on this so I think they know what they're doing.

    You should be careful when you use this guy as an example. He was a compulsive liar. Lying about 5 years you spent at medical school and lying about not being deemed fit to practice is extreme. I've never lied on a UCAS form but I never applied for anything as competitive as medicine.
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    (Original post by Beska)
    I'm pretty sure lying by omission is just as bad as writing down something that is a lie.

    Completely disagree and I'm not just talking about the UCAS thing anymore.
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Completely disagree and I'm not just talking about the UCAS thing anymore.
    I am not talking generally, I am talking about UCAS. When you submit your UCAS, you have to tick a 'declaration' box which states you must include all relevant information and you're not allowed to omit anything. Since the 'education' section on UCAS tells you to put down everything, and you omit something, you've lied on your declaration.
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    (Original post by Beska)
    I am not talking generally, I am talking about UCAS. When you submit your UCAS, you have to tick a 'declaration' box which states you must include all relevant information and you're not allowed to omit anything. Since the 'education' section on UCAS tells you to put down everything, and you omit something, you've lied on your declaration.
    Well I've never done it personally but the thing about medicine is it's ridiculously competitive. My cousin got 4 rejections then the next time round he got 3 offers, One from Cambridge. The admission system is messed up.

    How is the fact that he entered a medical school previously relevant btw ? All it means is that he has an extra year of medical knowledge ? I have no idea why medical schools don't accept people that have dropped out before.

    When I rang up to ask they didn't even ask me if I had extenuating circumstances. They immediately said no.

    How can you compare what he did to say this guy who lied about going to Cambridge and the fact that he had done a full medical degree before ? You're saying that's just as bad as what my friend did right ? He was lying by omission and this guy was just plain lying. Just as bad, Clearly.

    Also if you did law you'd know ticking a box and agreeing to something is different to actually saying it. You never agreed to terms and conditions that you broke before ? Downloaded music ? Used Microsoft word on two computers ? If he had said ''I've never been to medical school before'' I would agree with you.
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    'Friend', aka you.
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    Well I've never done it personally but the thing about medicine is it's ridiculously competitive. My cousin got 4 rejections then the next time round he got 3 offers, One from Cambridge. The admission system is messed up.

    How is the fact that he entered a medical school previously relevant btw ? All it means is that he has an extra year of medical knowledge ? I have no idea why medical schools don't accept people that have dropped out before.

    When I rang up to ask they didn't even ask me if I had extenuating circumstances. They immediately said no.

    How can you compare what he did to say this guy who lied about going to Cambridge and the fact that he had done a full medical degree before ? You're saying that's just as bad as what my friend did right ? He was lying by omission and this guy was just plain lying. Just as bad, Clearly.

    Also if you did law you'd know ticking a box and agreeing to something is different to actually saying it. You never agreed to terms and conditions that you broke before ? Downloaded music ? Used Microsoft word on two computers ? If he had said ''I've never been to medical school before'' I would agree with you.
    I have done it personally, twice. The first time I applied I got 4 rejections, so I know how competitive it is.

    It is very relevant that he has already dropped out of a medical school. For some reason or another, medical schools in the UK do not like it if you do this (lack of dedication/motivation/blah blah) and they do not admit anybody who has done so. I am just inferring from that fact that they would probably dismiss somebody that did, but lied about it.

    I am not discussing magnitude here: both are wrong, both would get you dismissed.

    You can try and argue around it all you like, he lied while simultaneously saying he didn't lie. It says in big letters when you submit your application that a false declaration could lead to UCAS cancelling your application or universities not accepting it.
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    (Original post by Nucleolus)
    'Friend', aka you.
    Never posted anything medical or mentioned being at medical school in the 2 years I've been on TSR. Check my post history. Why would I not mention it ? Everyone loves you if you're a doctor on here.

    I was posting about going to pharmacy school 2 years ago.

    I have posted many times this year about being on a gap year atm.

    Why don't you do some research next time before saying someone is lying. Why would I bother ? It's an anonymous forum .....

    Better luck next time.
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    you're comparing it to someone...who actively deceived medical school.
    Hmmm....


    He was lying by omission and this guy was just plain lying. Just as bad, Clearly.

    Also if you did law you'd know ticking a box and agreeing to something is different to actually saying it
    Two points: lying by omission and lying are both acts of deceit, which if intentionally done are frowned upon by the GMC and the School's fitness to practice panel.

    If you did law, you would know that an electronic signature (which is when you tick a box and declare your assent) is equally valid as verbal or oral assent. Otherwise, why would Microsoft office (to use your example ) bother to have a terms and conditions that you tick to accept?

    Also OP, why so angry and defensive? Take a chill pill.
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    (Original post by Beska)
    I am not talking generally, I am talking about UCAS. When you submit your UCAS, you have to tick a 'declaration' box which states you must include all relevant information and you're not allowed to omit anything. Since the 'education' section on UCAS tells you to put down everything, and you omit something, you've lied on your declaration.
    So did you put in your PS that you've applied before?
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    (Original post by Beska)
    I have done it personally, twice. The first time I applied I got 4 rejections, so I know how competitive it is.

    It is very relevant that he has already dropped out of a medical school. For some reason or another, medical schools in the UK do not like it if you do this (lack of dedication/motivation/blah blah) and they do not admit anybody who has done so. I am just inferring from that fact that they would probably dismiss somebody that did, but lied about it.

    I am not discussing magnitude here: both are wrong, both would get you dismissed.

    You can try and argue around it all you like, he lied while simultaneously saying he didn't lie. It says in big letters when you submit your application that a false declaration could lead to UCAS cancelling your application or universities not accepting it.
    I understand what you mean. I just don't think his lie was bad which according to my dad was reflected in the way his tutor responded. He found it hilarious he'd brought two people with him. People on here have been talking about doctors who have deceived many many times and comparing them to him. Talking about him being struck of for this. Also people saying he was very lucky. From the sound of things the tutor didn't even care meaning he didn't need any luck.

    I'm just trying to make sure that people on TSR don't scare monger for future people that read this thread. From the way people were talking before I found out what happened I was expecting him to have been kicked out.
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    (Original post by Arenas123)
    I understand what you mean. I just don't think his lie was bad which according to my dad was reflected in the way his tutor responded. He found it hilarious he'd brought two people with him. People on here have been talking about doctors who have deceived many many times and comparing them to him. Talking about him being struck of for this. Also people saying he was very lucky. From the sound of things the tutor didn't even care meaning he didn't need any luck.

    I'm just trying to make sure that people on TSR don't scare monger for future people that read this thread. From the way people were talking before I found out what happened I was expecting him to have been kicked out.
    I didn't think for a second that he would have been kicked out, reading the thread. However, his tutor probably found it hilarious that a grown man and a medical student took two other guys with him for backup. Maturity, anyone?

    Equally, it is important to reinforce future readers that lying on your UCAS form about previous degree enrolment and being caught is a fast track to fitness to practice or being de-enrolled from the course.
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    (Original post by mummyperson)
    Of course he wont be kicked out. Blackmail is a crime so report the blackmailer to the police. Tell your friend to withdraw from medical school in India. (or, indeed, KCL if he prefers India)

    Now what about the ethics- your friend hasn't been totally open and honest has he? So in future he needs to be. If he has got funding on the basis the KCL degree is his first degree that is more serious. If this is the case your friend needs to discuss it with the bursar and his tutor asap
    Actually, if he neglected to include it on his UCAS application and the uni were unaware of the real situation, he can get kicked out.
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    Why did he leave the Indian Med school?
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    Hmmm....




    Two points: lying by omission and lying are both acts of deceit, which if intentionally done are frowned upon by the GMC and the School's fitness to practice panel.

    If you did law, you would know that an electronic signature (which is when you tick a box and declare your assent) is equally valid as verbal or oral assent. Otherwise, why would Microsoft office (to use your example ) bother to have a terms and conditions that you tick to accept?

    Also OP, why so angry and defensive? Take a chill pill.
    Do you think they are equal acts of deceit though. You think they're just as bad as each other ?

    It's not even the UCAS issue I was deffensive about. It was saying that lying and lying by omission were the same thing. Yes ticking the box is the same as saying the words I agree however they are by no means helpful especially when the UCAS statement asks for relevant information. You see it's pretty subjective what is relevant to your university application. Then there is actively lying. Say somebody saying they went to Cambridge when they went to Sussex. If you did that UCAS and your university could kick you out. In my friends situation his UCAS form was all true even if there wasn't enough ''relevant'' information. This paragraph isn't my opinion. It's that of the lawyer that said they would go to court for this guy if he needed it.

    I will be doing Law next year btw not that it's relevant.
 
 
 
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