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Black people/Santa/Jesus on the front of xmas cards & racial prejudice at xmas Watch

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    (Original post by RabbitCFH)
    Israel is not in Africa.
    its just north of Egypt, just nest to Saudi Arabia, between Africa and Asia. plus, in Genesis, the origins of Man and the holy family were in Ethiopia (Assyria).

    so in all likelihood Jesus was brown, African or Asian.

    Israel certainly isnt in Sweden so theres no way he was Nordic looking.

    the image of Jesus has been whitened and anglicised, much like the image of Beyonce in the L'oreal advert.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    actually Jesus and the holy family were born in Africa, so the image of Jesus should be that of an african, not a whiter than white blond caucasian



    not really, im not offended by an image of a white father Xmas, or white nativity. but i would like to see a range of races represented at xmas, not just the white race.

    xmas is for christians, not white people only.

    and also wakey wakey, not all christians are white! i find it mega offensive that at church at xmas, white people ask me if i celebrate xmas and what religion i am just because im brown!
    I can understand that a range would be nice, and there is as you have shown, so there isn't a problem then really?

    Haha I know all Christians aren't all white, the most devoted Christians in existence I would say are mainly black, I mean look at Gospel Churches there aren't many more committed than the people there. Of corse people know that not all Christians are white, I mean it's not a newsflash that there are white muslims is it?

    I believe CHRISTmas (not xmas, I don't like that phrase at all), although for Christian celebrations is not just for Christians, at my part-time job I have many people of all different religious views buying Christmas cards for friends and neighbours, some of whom tell me they go round to their friends house to celebrate Christmas without breaking the rules of their religion (e.g. pork for muslims), and their friends in turn go to their religious celebrations at their homes. That is personally how I feel any religious holiday should be celebrated, not by changing the little things should as the design of cards.
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    (Original post by RabbitCFH)
    Israel is not in Africa.
    Sorry i negged you instead of pos rep iphones are difficult to surf on
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    actually Jesus and the holy family were born in Africa, so the image of Jesus should be that of an african, not a whiter than white blond caucasian

    Jesus was from (modern) Palestine.
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    OP is telling us evil racist whitey (in our own country no less) that we are not diverse enough lol
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    its just north of Egypt, just nest to Saudi Arabia, between Africa and Asia. plus, in Genesis, the origins of Man and the holy family were in Ethiopia (Assyria).

    so in all likelihood Jesus was brown, African or Asian.

    Israel certainly isnt in Sweden so theres no way he was Nordic looking.

    the image of Jesus has been whitened and anglicised, much like the image of Beyonce in the L'oreal advert.
    They were Jewish. Jews are white.

    (Original post by Ruthi-SH)
    Sorry i negged you instead of pos rep iphones are difficult to surf on
    Noooooo!
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    (Original post by RabbitCFH)
    Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Santa were white. If you portray them as black, it's like a white Martin Luther King.
    Jesus, Mary and Joseph came from the middle east so they would looked Arabic.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    not really, im not offended by an image of a white father Xmas, or white nativity. but i would like to see a range of races represented at xmas, not just the white race.

    xmas is for christians, not white people only.

    and also wakey wakey, not all christians are white! i find it mega offensive that at church at xmas, white people ask me if i celebrate xmas and what religion i am just because im brown!
    Christmas is not just for Christians. The actual day Christmas is on was originally a Pagan festival anyway.

    Plus, I don't think the people in your Church would be stupid enough to wonder what religion you were after sharing mass with you...
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    (Original post by KJ_the_crazy_chick)
    Jesus, Mary and Joseph came from the middle east so they would looked Arabic.
    So Israelis are black?
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    (Original post by Carter BSc)
    I can understand that a range would be nice, and there is as you have shown, so there isn't a problem then really?
    no there isnt. i found these by googling for them. you will not be able to walk into a high street shop and buy these. you will have to order them online. in fact, there is a black single mother in the UK who is now a millionare, because, like me, she walked into every card shop in her UK city and couldnt find a SINGLE non white xmas card, so she designed a range and now sells them online in the UK.it is called 'colourblind'.
    Haha I know all Christians aren't all white, the most devoted Christians in existence I would say are mainly black, I mean look at Gospel Churches there aren't many more committed than the people there. Of corse people know that not all Christians are white, I mean it's not a newsflash that there are white muslims is it?
    i know, i find the same, so i get really offended when white people IN CHURCH ask me my religion, but if i turn around and ask them theirs, they get offended.
    I believe CHRISTmas (not xmas, I don't like that phrase at all), although for Christian celebrations is not just for Christians, at my part-time job I have many people of all different religious views buying Christmas cards for friends and neighbours, some of whom tell me they go round to their friends house to celebrate Christmas without breaking the rules of their religion (e.g. pork for muslims), and their friends in turn go to their religious celebrations at their homes. That is personally how I feel any religious holiday should be celebrated, not by changing the little things should as the design of cards.
    sure Christmas was originally a Christian festival, but yeah i can see people of all walks of life can celebrate it. but that too includes ALL RACES not just white people. maybe a brown skinned muslim might also like to buy a brown skinned mary and joseph card for his niece?
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    (Original post by KJ_the_crazy_chick)
    Jesus, Mary and Joseph came from the middle east so they would looked Arabic.
    but in Genesis, their roots were in assyria (ethiopia) so they would have been more black. they certainly wouldnt have been white Nordic blonds.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    hi guys
    there seems to be a general assumption that father christmas is white
    Because he is based off of a Northern European culture, and a Christian saint who came from Turkey, not an African locality. Not to say one cannot have a black father Christmas but lets be honest here, if you're going to experience Christmas in a majority white country the culture is going to feature allot of white figures (God forbid).

    Expecting different would be like me going to China and expecting the figures of Chinese mythology to be black as night or go to Africa and expect figures of legend to be as pale as snow.

    and Jesus Mary and Joseph are all white. now im not racist, and most white people would be the first to say things like 'race doesn't matter'. but in my experience people find the idea of black people on christmas cards uncomfortable.
    Except my understanding is that Jesus, Mary and Joseph were probably the same skin-tone as most people from the Levant, Caucasian?...maybe, North-European?...no. Never had a problem with black people on anything either. White figures in European Christian tradition can again be put down simply to the fact it is a Christian tradition based in EUROPE.


    at this time of year i also get alot of white folk asking me 'are you flying home soon for xmas' (i live and was born in the uk) and even folks who have seen me in the church every sunday for several years sometimes ask me after xmas mass or midnight mass AT CHURCH 'so, do you celebrate xmas'? in fact lots of people ask me that last question even at work. but if i say to them 'yes, i celebrate xmas, do you?'they get offended... duh!! or like when i meet new people and they say 'where are you from?''London''no,where are yu from originally' 'I was born in London' *awkward silence* they get mega offended and think im making fun of them. in my last workplace (PwC)i was at an xmas lunch and the senior partner said to me 'so do you celebrate xmas''yes, i do' then a manager said 'what religion are you''Roman Catholic'*awkward silcence, partner and manager look at each other* 'no, what religion are you really, its ok you can tell us'

    like wtf??? are there no brown christians????

    does anyone else find there is alot of racial prejudice around at this time of year? and would you buy these ethnic xmas cards to give out?
    Not to belittle your experiences of prejudice but I have never really felt I was surrounded by a population of white people who couldn't fathom the concept of a non-Caucasian Christian (Latin America is Catholic after all) and Britain is so multi-cultural these days with a large ethnic minority population that anyone who can't understand the concept of a non-white person being born and raised in the UK (especially in London) must have lived under a rock.


    I am therefore assuming you are either trolling or you are taking isolated/misinterpreted instances of prejudice and exaggerating it and imposing it upon the wide breadth of Caucasian Britain.
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    (Original post by Emmie3303)
    Christmas is not just for Christians. The actual day Christmas is on was originally a Pagan festival anyway.
    Christmas celebrates the birth of Christ hence the name CHRISTMAS. non christians may celebrate on the 25th of Dec, but they are not celebrating the birth of Christ, they are celebratig the holiday of 25th Dec.
    anyway my point was the secont part of the sentence - Christmas is not for white people only.
    And I call troll. (What Christian would call Christmas 'Xmas'?) Plus, I don't think the people in your Church would be stupid enough to wonder what religion you were after sharing mass with you...
    it is quicker to type xmas than Christmas. that doesnt make me any less religious. i can assure you in all likelihood that i have been to church more times this year than the average white person has in their life.

    and yeah, it IS stupid that white folk in church would ask me AT XMAS MASS if i celebrate xmas. i think they do it without thinking. i find it ignorant and racist.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    Because he is based off of a Northern European culture, and a Christian saint who came from Turkey, not an African locality. Not to say one cannot have a black father Christmas but lets be honest here, if you're going to experience Christmas in a majority white country the culture is going to feature allot of white figures (God forbid).

    Expecting different would be like me going to China and expecting the figures of Chinese mythology to be black as night or go to Africa and expect figures of legend to be as pale as snow.

    Except my understanding is that Jesus, Mary and Joseph were probably the same skin-tone as most people from the Levant, Caucasian?...maybe, North-European?...no. Never had a problem with black people on anything either. White figures in European Christian tradition can again be put down simply to the fact it is a Christian tradition based in EUROPE.

    Not to belittle your experiences of prejudice but I have never really felt I was surrounded by a population of white people who couldn't fathom the concept of a non-Caucasian Christian (Latin America is Catholic after all) and Britain is so multi-cultural these days with a large ethnic minority population that anyone who can't understand the concept of a non-white person being born and raised in the UK (especially in London) must have lived under a rock.


    I am therefore assuming you are either trolling or you are taking isolated/misinterpreted instances of prejudice and exaggerating it and imposing it upon the wide breadth of Caucasian Britain.
    since when is xmas a european thing? the majority of christians are not from europe!!!! obviously chinese mythology is chinese. but christian tradition is christian. and christian =/= white.

    to be fair, i am very educated and posh the people i mix with tend to be the narrow minded, white middle class male public school types who dont know how to peel a banana without using a knife (yes this realyl happened in a roomful of 10 i was the only person that knew how)which is probably why they seem so ignorant of cultural diversity and ask racially offensive questions
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    hi guys

    there seems to be a general assumption that father christmas is white, and Jesus Mary and Joseph are all white. now im not racist, and most white people would be the first to say things like 'race doesnt matter'. but in my experience people find the idea of black people on christmas cards uncomfortable.

    im brown-skinned(indigenous south american), and last year i saw some ethnic xmas religious cards in oxfam. i gave them out, and noticed when i had previously given normal, non black cards, people would glance at the front, read the inside then saw 'aww thats so sweet, thanks'. but wwith the black cards, they would look long and hard at the front of the card, then back at me, then at the front of the card, glance at the inside, and uncomfortably and awkwardly put it back in the envelope and say 'thanks, merry xmas' without looking me in the eye. they also would assume that the fact i had given black cards instead of 'normal' ones meant i had a chip on my shoulder about race.
    here are the type im talking about:

    A dark father christmas
    http://rlv.zcache.com/ethnic_christm...59q0ou_400.jpg

    http://papercards.com/store/graphics/card7570l-f.jpg

    A dark Jesus Mary and Joseph
    http://www.blackartdepot.com/african...stmascards.jpg

    http://www.ccrsupport.com/images/xmas75430.gif

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iYpeJVoyyO...tmas-cards.jpg

    A dark angel
    http://www.sweetberrylane.com/images/P/7544lr.jpg

    at this time of year i also get alot of white folk asking me 'are you flying home soon for xmas' (i live and was born in the uk) and even folks who have seen me in the church every sunday for several years sometimes ask me after xmas mass or midnight mass AT CHURCH 'so, do you celebrate xmas'? in fact lots of people ask me that last question even at work. but if i say to them 'yes, i celebrate xmas, do you?'they get offended... duh!! or like when i meet new people and they say 'where are you from?''London''no,where are yu from originally' 'I was born in London' *awkward silence* they get mega offended and think im making fun of them. in my last workplace (PwC)i was at an xmas lunch and the senior partner said to me 'so do you celebrate xmas''yes, i do' then a manager said 'what religion are you''Roman Catholic'*awkward silcence, partner and manager look at each other* 'no, what religion are you really, its ok you can tell us'

    like wtf??? are there no brown christians????

    does anyone else find there is alot of racial prejudice around at this time of year? and would you buy these ethnic xmas cards to give out?
    I thought the christmas cards were lovely
    Except for the first father christmas one, though, that one was a little creepy :/
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    since when is xmas a european thing? the majority of christians are not from europe!!!! obviously chinese mythology is chinese. but christian tradition is christian. and christian =/= white.

    to be fair, i am very educated and posh the people i mix with tend to be the narrow minded, white middle class male public school types who dont know how to peel a banana without using a knife (yes this realyl happened in a roomful of 10 i was the only person that knew how)which is probably why they seem so ignorant of cultural diversity and ask racially offensive questions
    Christmas was only celebrated in Europe, the birth date of Jesus is unkown. Early Christians in Europe hijacked the celebrationg of the winter solstice to entice pagans towards christianity, Christmas originated in europe.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    Christmas celebrates the birth of Christ hence the name CHRISTMAS. non christians may celebrate on the 25th of Dec, but they are not celebrating the birth of Christ, they are celebratig the holiday of 25th Dec.
    anyway my point was the secont part of the sentence - Christmas is not for white people only.


    it is quicker to type xmas than Christmas. that doesnt make me any less religious. i can assure you in all likelihood that i have been to church more times this year than the average white person has in their life.

    and yeah, it IS stupid that white folk in church would ask me AT XMAS MASS if i celebrate xmas. i think they do it without thinking. i find it ignorant and racist.
    Christians are not celebrating the birth date of Christ either; they are celebrating the day the Church assigned as the birth of Christ in order to overshadow the existing festival of Yule.

    If you are such a dedicated Christian then why do you omit the CHRIST part of the word Christmas? It takes less than a second to type four more characters. I don't buy it.
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    (Original post by shinytoy)
    its just north of Egypt, just nest to Saudi Arabia, between Africa and Asia. plus, in Genesis, the origins of Man and the holy family were in Ethiopia (Assyria).

    so in all likelihood Jesus was brown, African or Asian.

    Israel certainly isnt in Sweden so theres no way he was Nordic looking.

    the image of Jesus has been whitened and anglicised, much like the image of Beyonce in the L'oreal advert.
    :curious:

    right .... so not in Africa then??

    Christ was an Israelite I think,though I suppose if you believe in the miraculous conception he could appear as any colour under the sun. If however, you don't believe in it, Christ would be an Israelite, or predominantly so I think. Even so you can reconcile the two as seems sensible by believing Christ's Genes were predominantly those of God and Mary, who was an Israelite as far as I know.
    Christ would thus look Jewish, or certainly Middle Eastern, so probably looked similar to Jews/Arabs today.

    No he wasn't Nordic, and portraying him with blue eyes is *probably inaccurate*, but this is quite uncommon and mot do portray him as Levantine, so your assertion here is misleading. Google images is enough to tell you this.

    Saint Nicholas was born in Anatolia, so was probably Greek/Roman/other, so mostly white.

    So for a start then, the two figures actually were close to white, or certainly Caucasian.

    This isn't the point though: Christ and Father Christmas, are to a large degree cultural figures, and what they actually looked like, or even whether they actually existed, is of very little importance because (British) people like to imagine this figures in a way familiar to them, so probably white. They associate Christmas with family, and 92% of people in the country have a predominantly white family.This is a 92% White British country, so companies market their Jesus/Santa stuff towards them, so reinforcing the notion of what they *should* look like.

    This isn't racial prejudice, this is you being a prat. In future please try to be at least a little bit informed on a topic before you fling about 'racial prejudice' assertions.

    As to why you were questioned as to your religion, of the 6% or so of the population which are not white or black, two-thirds are S.Asian, so likely Muslim or Hindu. Maybe a little rude on their part but presumably you were not lynched so you are doing ok.

    EDIT :Massive Trolling: I am waaaay too sleep deprived
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    (Original post by Mm_Minty)
    I thought the christmas cards were lovely
    Except for the first father christmas one, though, that one was a little creepy :/
    lol! would you be offended of feel awkward if a coloured person gave you one of these?

    also @ people saying Jesus was white northern european, look at Revelations 1:13-16

    "His head and hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire;
    1:15 - And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. "

    so his hair was wooly like a black person, not silky like a northern european, and his skin was like brass burned in a furnace, presumably bronzed, brownish and glowing not pale and pasty.
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    (Original post by RabbitCFH)
    Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Santa were white. If you portray them as black, it's like a white Martin Luther King.
    They weren't white stupid. Unless you call arabs white as they had a semite complexion.
 
 
 
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