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Gordon Brown's riveting new book doing great on amazon Watch

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    (Original post by Barden)
    Oh dear, you're one of those who thinks that our government had any control over the effects of the global recession, aren't you? :rolleyes:
    No, but the government did have control over how the global recession would effect us. Let us say, for example, he hadn't put the country into trillions of pounds of debt, or de-regulated to the point where the biggest banks in the country had to be nationalised - i.e. he could have focused the country's economy on things such as high-end manufacturing, professional services and technology rather than increasing the size of the state to unsustainable levels to reduce unemployment and increase benefits. Compare Britain between 97/08 to Germany 97/08, then look at the two countries now.
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    Will he finally unlock the secret of how to achieve 'no more boom or bust?!.'
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    (Original post by Don_Lad)
    No, but the government did have control over how the global recession would effect us. Let us say, for example, he hadn't put the country into trillions of pounds of debt, or de-regulated to the point where the biggest banks in the country had to be nationalised - i.e. he could have focused the country's economy on things such as high-end manufacturing, professional services and technology rather than increasing the size of the state to unsustainable levels to reduce unemployment and increase benefits. Compare Britain between 97/08 to Germany 97/08, then look at the two countries now.

    Yes, you are correct - if the government had had the use of a crystal ball in 2006, then they could have dealt with the global financial crisis better.
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    (Original post by Barden)
    George Osbourne is no more of an economist either. In fact I can't think of any chancellors (or PMs for that matter), off the top of my head, who have been.

    So GTFO?
    There are quite a few actually... Vince Cable springs to mind (studied Econ. at Cambridge)
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    (Original post by spazman21)
    There are quite a few actually... Vince Cable springs to mind (studied Econ. at Cambridge)

    ...but he's not the Chancellor though, is he...

    He damn well should be, and this is what Clegg should have pushed for instead of allowing himself to be bought by being given the dept. PM post...
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    (Original post by Barden)
    ...but he's not the Chancellor though, is he...

    He damn well should be, and this is what Clegg should have pushed for instead of allowing himself to be bought by being given the dept. PM post...
    Yes, but he was pretty much the Lib Dem equivalent.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    One things for certain though, Germany will always be powerful because they don't just spunk money up the wall, and they foresaw the obvious problem that the West doesn't make anything any more.
    Germany is an interesting case.

    I certainly think they spend money more efficiently, but they are a country with a more advanced welfare system and level of public services than the UK is. It's not a free market model by any means. The state invests a lot of money in German infrastructure, education, transport and research & development. They get a good return in terms of being a powerful exporter. They have also managed to stay as Europe's leading economic power despite the difficulties of absorbing a former communist state.....something which would have sent most of the other Western European countries into meltdown.

    You don't have to have an economy based on a strong manufacturing sector to do well but what Germany does is knows what its good at, focuses on making it, and also makes stuff to high quality.
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    Doesn't George Osborne have a degree in Modern History and he's the Chancellor?

    The Exchequer has trained economist and finance experts as aids anyway.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)


    It seems you have been living in a cave, do you fully comprehend just how ****ed this country is? Just what The Creature from the Swamp did to this country, do you understand what the Brown Terror was?

    Please, enlighten yourself and watch this:

    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/b...es-1/episode-1




    Or, if you had a stack of £50 of that figure it would be 6,500 miles high.

    According to the Adam Smith institute Britain will probably be broke between 2019-2031 unless drastic measures are taken.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehou...or-broke.thtml

    Now, what did Brown do? He pissed all our money up the wall, and then borrowed some more. He was in favour of the economics that led to the disaster, in favour of an economy fuelled by debt.

    That's before we've even got on to the soft version of frankfurt school Marxism that has been imposed upon our society.


    I hate to break this to you but anyone with a basic understanding of economics will tell you that even a large debt is generally not a problem as long as the country can guarantee not to default. All of which the UK can. The deficit needs to be tackled yes but in the grand scheme of things a large debt is generally not a problem
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Doesn't George Osborne have a degree in Modern History and he's the Chancellor?

    The Exchequer has trained economist and finance experts as aids anyway.
    Who Brown didn't pay any attention to.
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    Back to the case about the book in question, lets be honest 99% of the people who comment about it are people who are never going to read it and if they tried, would not understand it anyway. They just didn't like Gordon Brown so want to say the books crap because he wrote it.

    It's a bit like Tony Blair, who I never liked, but I got his book and found it quite interesting, so I'm going to get this Brown book and check it out. Now he is reflecting on things from a position of being out of government I am sure he will have some good insights.
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    (Original post by Don_Lad)
    Did you even read the review he ****ing posted? It actually explains why he was a ****ing awful Chancellor. Or perhaps you have attacked the first line in OP's post and decided that 'because no Chancellor is an economist, it's all okay!' **** that ****, compare what Brown did to the country in 10 years (massive ****-up) to what Osbourne has done in 6 months (economy back on track).

    9/10 for dodging the ****ting issue.
    ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Germany is an interesting case.

    I certainly think they spend money more efficiently, but they are a country with a more advanced welfare system and level of public services than the UK is. It's not a free market model by any means. The state invests a lot of money in German infrastructure, education, transport and research & development. They get a good return in terms of being a powerful exporter. They have also managed to stay as Europe's leading economic power despite the difficulties of absorbing a former communist state.....something which would have sent most of the other Western European countries into meltdown.

    You don't have to have an economy based on a strong manufacturing sector to do well but what Germany does is knows what its good at, focuses on making it, and also makes stuff to high quality.
    I don't try to espouse free market values, I just think it helps to remember the state gets its funding from the free market rather than vice versa - something that absorbing East Germany probably taught them quite well.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    I hate to break this to you but anyone with a basic understanding of economics will tell you that even a large debt is generally not a problem as long as the country can guarantee not to default. All of which the UK can. The deficit needs to be tackled yes but in the grand scheme of things a large debt is generally not a problem
    Thanks, for breaking it to me.

    So I take it you didn't read the spectator article then.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Thanks, for breaking it to me.

    So I take it you didn't read the spectator article then.
    I saw your link to channel 4s program about the country's debt.

    As long as the country can service its debts then there is no problem.

    At the end of the day most of the country's debts came from having to borrow to bail out the banks. Had we not bailed out the banks we would be in a far worse situation than we are now
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    I saw your link to channel 4s program about the country's debt.

    As long as the country can service its debts then there is no problem.

    At the end of the day most of the country's debts came from having to borrow to bail out the banks. Had we not bailed out the banks we would be in a far worse situation than we are now
    Wrong.

    This country cannot service its debts, that's precisely the problem:

    It won’t be for a while yet, but the UK seems headed for another financial crisis. And this time, the government won’t be able to blame the banks. The blame will lie squarely on our own determination to vote ourselves generous healthcare, welfare and pension benefits in the hope that our children will calmly pick up the bill.

    This giant welfare-state Ponzi scheme is bound to collapse sometime – though you can be pretty sure that the politicians running it won’t end up in the slammer alongside Bernie Madoff. An ageing population means that all those benefits we vote ourselves today will be simply unaffordable tomorrow. You believe the national debt will top out at 100 percent of GDP? Add in these hidden commitments, and you discover the debt is already many times that.

    In the Adam Smith Institute report, On Borrowed Time, the award-winning analyst Miles Saltiel pins numbers on the depth of this black hole – a black hole that gets deeper as our population ages. He figures that if the current government’s belt-tightening continues to 2015, and then all the ‘proceeds of growth’ go to fund higher public spending – which isn’t unusual – UK plc goes bust in 2019.

    If the post-2015 ‘proceeds of growth’ are split 50:50 between spending increases and debt reduction – a ratio which would be remarkably restrained of governments, given past experience – we hit the sand in 2031.

    The good news is that if we hold public spending constant and all the ‘proceeds of growth’ are devoted to paying off our enormous debt, then we can actually pay off the national debt, though it will take 31 years to do it.

    As for the likelihood of this third scenario: well, in the words of Robert LeRoy Ripley, you can believe it or not. But if we aren’t radical, we’re stuffed. For example, the state is a hopeless insurer, and should get out of the business. Privatize all those state hospitals, hand us the £236bn in proceeds, and let us buy our own health insurance, says Saltiel. Then cut tax and regulation on voluntary groups and let them provide any incapacity and income support that we can’t provide for ourselves.

    While we’re at it, let’s make politicians fess up to the real future costs of the glittering perks they promise us – and bring in limits so they can’t promise us the world today and send the bill to our children.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Wrong.

    This country cannot service its debts, that's precisely the problem:
    You realise if we could not service out debts our credit rating would have been demoted and we would have to ask for a bailout?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I don't try to espouse free market values, I just think it helps to remember the state gets its funding from the free market rather than vice versa - something that absorbing East Germany probably taught them quite well.
    Well the state gets more revenue from a thriving private sector.

    Equally the private sector generates more revenue in an economy with better state funded infrastructure, especially when foreign capital is free to choose where it bases itself.

    I think once you have a situation where private and public sectors resent each other you are fighting a losing battle.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    You realise if we could not service out debts our credit rating would have been demoted and we would have to ask for a bailout?
    Yep, just ignore all of the points made by the economist.

    Our credit rating has been at great risk.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Yep, just ignore all of the points made by the economist.

    Our credit rating has been at great risk.
    Source then?
 
 
 
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