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National Union of Students secretly urged Government to make deep cuts Watch

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    (Original post by HistoryRepeating)
    Down with this sort of thing
    haha, like the Father Ted reference!
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Why isn't this front page headline news on BBC?
    Because the BBC tends to lean lefty in their coverage of the news and reporting this would ruin the whole 'Students protest and lose their apathy against swingeing tuition fee rises' angle.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Doesn't surprise me one little bit. The NUS has and always will be dominated by middle class kids trying to protect their own cosy standard of life. The new fee regime will hurt middle class students way more than working class students and thats why they care about it. They use the idea of restricting access to working class students as a mask for their true intentions, which are totally self serving.

    This information just proves that. Cutting grants and loans in the current regime would make it so much harder for many working class kids to go to uni. In fact much, much harder than what the coalition government is currently planning. I know for a fact that if my loans and grants had been cut the way the NUS was suggesting, I'd have never got to Uni.
    What about getting a job? Too much money is given in grants - far too much.
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    I think you are all seeing this from the wrong angle. I think they would rather the handsome grants got cut to save spending rather than the education budget or an increase in fees - and I agree. Yuu dont need a grant of £2900 and a uni busrsary to survive. Half the grant to cut spending and students just have to be more prudent and save money rather than going out drinking. This way only gatecrasher and oceana lose. Not education or students.
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    The majority of students couldn't give a toss about the NUS though TBH, do bare in mind that only 1 out of (is it 4 now?) marches was actually organised by the NUS.

    The NUS doesn't really speak for its members at all, I've certainly never been asked my opinion by them...
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    (Original post by Aramiss18)
    I think you are all seeing this from the wrong angle. I think they would rather the handsome grants got cut to save spending rather than the education budget or an increase in fees - and I agree. Yuu dont need a grant of £2900 and a uni busrsary to survive. Half the grant to cut spending and students just have to be more prudent and save money rather than going out drinking. This way only gatecrasher and oceana lose. Not education or students.
    And I think youre missing the point of this article.
    The NUS are meant to represent Students, and as they were protesting they were calling for free tuition (or less tuition) because "we dont want an elitist system."
    But secretly, they want deep cuts in grants?..something that would FOR SURE affect working-class students (tuitions fees would not affect them as much as this would).
    Also, they know that this would be extremely unpopular with students hence the need to do it in secret.
    The NUS are almost as bad as the Lib Dems who will vote for the rise in tuition fees.
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    (Original post by Aramiss18)
    What about getting a job? Too much money is given in grants - far too much.
    I go to University in London where there are currently 20 applications per job. I've applied to fifteen jobs at the last count and not even got one interview. This is despite fours year previous experience in retail and hospitality. So it's not like I havn't tried, grants are vital. Especially when you don't have mummy and daddy paying everything for you.
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    God, Aaron Porter is such a ****. I can't believe we were accused of lying and being misleading by that self-regarding sack of ****.
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    (Original post by Aramiss18)
    What about getting a job? Too much money is given in grants - far too much.
    Which is great if you can afford to drive to get somewhere that isn't already inundated with other applicants who are exactly as qualified as yourself.
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    (Original post by jakemittle)
    And I think youre missing the point of this article.
    The NUS are meant to represent Students, and as they were protesting they were calling for free tuition (or less tuition) because "we dont want an elitist system."
    But secretly, they want deep cuts in grants?..something that would FOR SURE affect working-class students (tuitions fees would not affect them as much as this would).
    Also, they know that this would be extremely unpopular with students hence the need to do it in secret.
    The NUS are almost as bad as the Lib Dems who will vote for the rise in tuition fees.
    Just because they are representing students doesn't mean they can be totally unreasonable with their demands and given that there is only a finite amount of money available, some must be cut - I think thats only sensible, I see nothing wrong with them exploring other avenues within which to distribute that money. I agree that they could be more transparent but walk around any uni campus with a survey and 90% of students will scream "Dont increase fees thats elitist. Dont cut grants thats elitist. Dont cut education its our future" so how are they meant to negotiate with the government if they used only the views of the majority of students?

    Be truthfull - of all the people you know who receive grants how many really need all of that grant given that they get a bursary too? I'm not going to roll off the spiel about "I dont get grants but I manage ect" because we've all heard it before but it is true. I see it as a very ideaologically fair but inefficient system. One girl was bragging about how she was making a surplus this year with her grants meanwhile a much more intelligent girl on our course is struggling at the moment because she has to work in a coffee shop to make ends meet. Massive academic advantage to the student with grants who has more time. This scenario isnt all that rare either and its unfair.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    I go to University in London where there are currently 20 applications per job. I've applied to fifteen jobs at the last count and not even got one interview. This is despite fours year previous experience in retail and hospitality. So it's not like I havn't tried, grants are vital. Especially when you don't have mummy and daddy paying everything for you.
    Please read my posts below. I understand that your situation is ****e - but London doesnt really help the point im trying to make due to it being so expensive. But really do you need 100% of that grant to make ends meet? Couldn't you cut nights out, walk instead of using expensive public transport ( I have a 40 min walk to uni) and by food from iceland rather than sainsburys?

    I am by no means one of the people living of Daddy's handouts. My Nan helps me out each month but that only covers bills and if totalled up is nowhere near grant size.

    * edit: Another great way to save money is if you go home over the summer dont sign for a house until september meaning you dont pay rent for july, august and most of september. If I had done that i would have saved £1000 last year and wouldnt be OD now.
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      We should organise a protest and lay siege to Mr Porter's house.
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      (Original post by Aramiss18)
      Just because they are representing students doesn't mean they can be totally unreasonable with their demands and given that there is only a finite amount of money available, some must be cut - I think thats only sensible, I see nothing wrong with them exploring other avenues within which to distribute that money. I agree that they could be more transparent but walk around any uni campus with a survey and 90% of students will scream "Dont increase fees thats elitist. Dont cut grants thats elitist. Dont cut education its our future" so how are they meant to negotiate with the government if they used only the views of the majority of students?

      Be truthfull - of all the people you know who receive grants how many really need all of that grant given that they get a bursary too? I'm not going to roll off the spiel about "I dont get grants but I manage ect" because we've all heard it before but it is true. I see it as a very ideaologically fair but inefficient system. One girl was bragging about how she was making a surplus this year with her grants meanwhile a much more intelligent girl on our course is struggling at the moment because she has to work in a coffee shop to make ends meet. Massive academic advantage to the student with grants who has more time. This scenario isnt all that rare either and its unfair.
      So you advocate them coming out in solidarity with Students while secretly going behind their backs to lobby for cuts elsewhere?
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      (Original post by jakemittle)
      So you advocate them coming out in solidarity with Students while secretly going behind their backs to lobby for cuts elsewhere?
      1) theres nothing wrong with them encouraging students to make their voices heard in the hope they are acknowledged.

      2) if the cuts are coming - which they are - and funding needs to reorganised I see no problem with what the NUS are doing.

      It makes for a good headline but to me it reads "NUS encourage students to protest, but also undertake contingency negotiations"
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      Backstabber c***.
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      Well this is what happens when to get the approval of students you just have to go on a wishy washy tirade about 'fairness', 'equality' and how the Tories are evil with no real substance
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      (Original post by Teaddict)
      The National Union of Students secretly urged the Coalition to make deep cuts in student grants and charge market rates of interest on student loans, according to leaked emails.

      The disclosure is likely to cause discord within the union, which has led opposition to Government plans to allow tuition fees to rise to £9,000 a year.

      The Daily Telegraph has seen emails from Mr Porter and his team in which the NUS leadership urged ministers to cut grants and loans as an alternative to raising tuition fees.



      In private talks in October, the NUS tried to persuade ministers at the Department for Business to enact their planned 15 per cent cut in higher education funding without lifting the cap on fees.



      In one email to the department’s officials, dated Oct 1, Mr Porter suggested that £800?million should be “deducted from the grants pot” over four years. That would cut total spending on grants by 61 per cent. Mr Porter also proposed the “introduction of a real rate of interest” for student loans.



      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...nt-grants.html


      ****ing hilarious.
      Funny how the full transcript of the email isn't available - just choice quotes and paraphrases. The emails could have just as easily been laying out the options in a reasonable manner. If the quotes weren't taken out of context, why is the Telegraph not releasing the full email? I mean they had no qualms about doing so with the MP expenses?

      I'm no fan of the NUS, but this stinks of smearing and divide & rule tactics by the Telegraph on behalf of the Coalition. Especially considering it's from an unnamed 'Coalition Source'. The sad thing is, judging by the comments on this thread, it seems to be working.
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      Well there's nothing stopping the NUS from releasing the full email if they wanted to clear the air.

      Seems I've been neg repped for stating that the NUS executive is a scum pit of self-serving wannabe politicians and meeja careerists with which no decent human being would choose to be invoved and which has no meaningful relationship with the students it purports to represent.

      going to come back with an argument against that or just neg and run?
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      (Original post by skyhigh!)
      Aaron Porter, its president, has been the Coalition’s most vocal critic, frequently accusing ministers of betraying students...

      LOL bunch of *****.
      Porter should face a vote of no confidence. Where did he learn his negotiating skills?
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      (Original post by Aramiss18)
      1) theres nothing wrong with them encouraging students to make their voices heard in the hope they are acknowledged.

      2) if the cuts are coming - which they are - and funding needs to reorganised I see no problem with what the NUS are doing.

      It makes for a good headline but to me it reads "NUS encourage students to protest, but also undertake contingency negotiations"
      That's about as weak as my nan's piss.

      The function of a union is to protect its members. Can you imagine the the auto workers union meekly asking GM "please don't cut our workers wages - we'd rather you increase the working hours and reduce medical coverage if you have to":rolleyes:

      Porter's job is to say "NO" - not lie on his back waiting for a tummy tickle. He's a failure. No doubt we'll see him in government one day.
     
     
     
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