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Why must people continue to insist the fees prevent poorer students from goin to uni? Watch

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    the people who are rich will be fine cause they can afford to pay, people who are poor will be fine as a large chunk will be paid for them, it's the middle folk who will suffer.
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    Most People will just see the tripling in fees and consider it ridiculous and the whole 40k of debt on your shoulders, but if you look at the governments proposals a lot of it is hashed together quickly, there are many holes that have been papered over such as the amount of universities that will now charge the full £9000 fees. There is also the fact that not only are they increasing fees but the interest rate at which we have to pay back our supposed easier to aquire loans.. 3% plus inflation.. pisstake..

    In my opinion universities could have avoided the huge increase in fees by getting rid of completley useless degree options... people go to university do a degree in something useless so they can party for 3 years and go to work in waitrose or peter jones.. the same job they would have been in without a university degree...
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    (Original post by miiiiil)
    You are obviously brainwashed by anti-conservative propaganda.
    Conservatives thrive to maintain elitist views and to create a state in which people are forever reminded of their position in the social hierarchy.
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    Gets written off after 30 years. So what's the problem?
    That loads of time , ill be 52
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    (Original post by chloeee!)
    Love this thread so much. Half the people on TV at the protests do not seem like the type to go to university anyway (e.g. "bruv, this aint on man, naaah fam&quot they clearly just want an excuse to riot and haven't actually listened to the reasons for the rise.
    So you think that someone that speaks like that doesn't want to/won't go to university?
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    (Original post by Syko)
    You smirk at the fact that is it 40k of debt, but when you are on a low paid job as most graduates who come out of University are, as well as having to pay for living costs, which DONT come with the student loan, as well as property prices which will once again balloon as the country comes out of recession means that it's a huge chunk of money to have hanging over your head!
    And here is one of those idiots that dont know the facts :facepalm:
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      £40, 000 is a **** load of money to some people. Students from the poorest families will have no idea what an amount that much means, it is too big to imagine properly.

      They also have a lack of trust in the system. Politicians may be saying now that you dont have to pay it back until you can properly afford to, but its not as if they have never moved the goalposts before is it?
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      Put yourself in the shoes of a kid from a working class family who parents didn't go to university and are on low incomes. What do you think the parents will say when the kid says 'mum, dad, I want to go to university'?

      The parents will say 'and put yourself in £40k debt? no chance'. Parents won't support their children's desire for higher education and they can't/won't give them the financial backing they need to go to university.

      The notion that everyone can go to university because you pay nothing upfront is a myth. The maintenance loan alone is very often LESS than the cost of accommodation, so any student without their parents' financial support has to somehow make their own living.
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      Means tested, my parents' wealth is not mine, and do not expect any kind of monetary help from my parents. I live at home as it is.

      At £3,290, on my particular course, (which I am very underwhelmed with, know I have made the wrong decision), we have an hour of "teaching" a day. Really not worth it.

      Loans are obviously going to be higher, with whatever fees my current uni decides, with repayment being at a higher income. An income of which I believe is difficult to achieve with our current "climate". Some are going to be able to get well paid jobs, others, like we have now where a degree means nothing, aren't.

      Surely it is pointless to raise fees, raise the loans and raise the point at which we pay it back?
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      The govt had the choice to cut places or cut funding, and either decision would have resulted in protest anyway.

      I'm going for 2011 entry, although if I fail to get in or get better grades (unlikely, but I can dream!), I'll re-apply. £9k a year for university education is nothing compared to what private unis cost and British universities are world renowned, so it'll be worth it. We're lucky the greatest institutions in the UK haven't gone private. Also, the govt are trying to help the poorest students with the National Scholarship Scheme and at unis that are charging the £6-9k, they are trying to introduce that thing where you only have to pay for one years' study.

      Anyways, the government has to think of other services that affect everyone instead of higher education. I would rather pay more knowing that the government has enough money to pay for someone's operation on the NHS or help an OAP pay their winter fuel bill (bit of an exaggeration, but I'm just trying to make a point).
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      (Original post by miiiiil)
      The loans will pay for your tuition, so you pay NOTHING until you are earning enough to pay, unless you choose to that is.

      Besides, even if you do end up with 40k debt its hardly like a credit card debt like everyone likes to make out.

      I do not consider myself to be 20k 'in debt', when in fact I am.

      Sensationalism brings out the moron in everyone who can't be bothered to understand the proposals properly.
      So you propose that it's okay because you have to earn £21,000 to start paying? So therefore we should all remain on salaries of less than £21,000 until we're 50?

      I'm sorry.... but house prices are going up, living costs going up, tax going up, jobs are being cut... so yeh it's like that they'll start off earning less than £21,000.... but a salary lower than £21,000 barely gets you anywhere in life... especially if you have to raise a family later in life.

      I don't expect to stick to a low paid job so that I don't have to pay my student loan off :facepalm:

      Now tell me that I don't have to worry :rolleyes:
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      Poor people will see the 9000 as what it is,9000. They will probably say 'sod it' and not take other things in account such as the loan.

      Although that's not to say I agree with it, the new policy, unemployment, cuts on the public sector means less people will pay the entire cost. And add to that the cuts on university spending means that people will pay more for less.

      I can see a sharp decline in the progress of education and research.
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      (Original post by Qaz25)
      So you propose that it's okay because you have to earn £21,000 to start paying? So therefore we should all remain on salaries of less than £21,000 until we're 50?

      I'm sorry.... but house prices are going up, living costs going up, tax going up, jobs are being cut... so yeh it's like that they'll start off earning less than £21,000.... but a salary lower than £21,000 barely gets you anywhere in life... especially if you have to raise a family later in life.

      I don't expect to stick to a low paid job so that I don't have to pay my student loan off :facepalm:

      Now tell me that I don't have to worry :rolleyes:
      You are misinterpreting his post.
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      It doesn't prevent poorer students, it deters poorer students.

      It's not just that that students are angry about anyway, it's also the other cuts to education in general.
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      (Original post by chloeee!)
      AND, look at other countries. We have it good.
      I am looking at other countries. Norwegians do not pay for university education and can in fact be paid to take degrees, not to mention the wealth of grants and loans on offer to sustain them through the 3-4 years. Sounds pretty sweet to me.
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      (Original post by morecambebay)
      its not as if they have never moved the goalposts before is it?
      YES, watch for it-a few years down the line the measure of inflation will be changed again so the interest rate on the loan goes up. The government is already talking about changing the way cpi is calculated.
      Watch out for penalties for late payments or later on changes to the 21k threshold, or it not being fully uprated for inflation.
      Work out how much interest someone is going to pay over 30 years...
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      (Original post by Syko)
      You smirk at the fact that is it 40k of debt, but when you are on a low paid job as most graduates who come out of University are, as well as having to pay for living costs, which DONT come with the student loan, as well as property prices which will once again balloon as the country comes out of recession means that it's a huge chunk of money to have hanging over your head!
      (Original post by Tashalls)
      Plus if it's true the poorest students get 2 years free students like me will actually save about £6,000 compared to the system atm.

      But the argument that 40k debt will put people off is deffinatly right, I'm iffy about £25k - it's an effing lot of money to have hanging over you even if it's not 'real' debt.
      (Original post by Athuwssr)
      Well your a class A douche bag.

      £9k a year for three years is an outrage.

      We only have to pay it after we earn £21k so we are better off apparently. Thats only £6k a year more but instead we will have debts of £40k instead of £20k.

      So anyone who goes to uni in 2012 is ****ed.

      Your a **** for listening to what the "coalition" are saying and being absorbed into thinking others will be better off under the new scheme when its total BS
      (Original post by Tishbox)
      I agree that it is idiotic of people to say they "can't afford" the higher fees. It is irrelevant because it is free at the point of access, as in you get a loan which you pay back later. If it wasn't for the loan, I don't think 95% of us would be able to afford to go to uni at the current fees... The real issue here is the unreasonable amount of debt that people are going to get into. The question is not "can I afford it", it's "how much debt am I prepared to get into".
      You're all looking at it in the wrong light. It's not "real" debt. It doesn't affect your credit rating and you're under no obligation to pay it all back. It gets written off after 30 years and you don't start paying it back until you're earning over 21,000 pounds, at which point you pay back 9% of anything over that limit.

      As someone who is under the old system and was on 15k salary last year, I can tell you, even then the repayments were not that harsh. It really isn't that big of a problem. It won't affect your ability to get loans, it doesn't have to be fully repaid and the repayments are so small as to barely have any impact upon your salary.

      People need to look at the whole system, not just the amount of money that it amounts to. It's not 40k debt in real terms and that should be explained to people better.
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      (Original post by Craiky1506)
      It doesn't prevent poorer students, it deters poorer students.

      It's not just that that students are angry about anyway, it's also the other cuts to education in general.
      Agreed, however most people are focusing on the number 9000, as this is a more obvious cost to them. The people protesting are in general so ignorant to the whole issue i doubt they know what effects the cuts will have to the education as this is less transparent than increased fees.
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      (Original post by LPat)
      the people who are rich will be fine cause they can afford to pay, people who are poor will be fine as a large chunk will be paid for them, it's the middle folk who will suffer.
      The typical idiotic response. How on earth can anyone "suffer"? The fees could be £100,000 a year and no-one would "suffer" paying it back.

      If your wage isn't going to be at least 9% higher with a degree than without it, then you need to question why you really need to go to university. (And that doesn't include low paying jobs straight after graduating as you pay back £0 while you have that job).

      Are people actually confused about how the (incredibly simple) system works, or are they just blinded by the idea that they are expected to pay for what they receive?
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      (Original post by Craiky1506)
      It doesn't prevent poorer students, it deters poorer students.
      .
      It doesn't. All the evidence points the other way. What puts off students from poorer background is the immediate cost not the long term cost (+lot of other factors). So as long as a reasonable amount of money from the fees goes towards increasing bursaries, loans, outreach programs, etc. then it's beneficial to poorer students.

      Every increase in tuition fees in this country has been accompanied by an increase in students from poorer backgrounds attending university.

      Ironically news coverage student protests about tuition fees (which often fails to make it clear that tuition fees don't have to be paid upfront) has a bigger impact on putting students off university than the fees themselves.
     
     
     
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