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Liberal Democrats 1988-2010 R.I.P Watch

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    (Original post by Advanced Subsidiary)
    I don't know what the big deal is with everybody complaining about the government. You voted for them and knew this would happen. Ok maybe not the coalition, that was unexpected.
    Hey, hey - I'm only 16.
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    Some girl's facebook status:

    "im so pissed off with clegg i hate him"

    and then "hey do do these fee rises affect us?"

    She's a first year in a Russell group university.
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    (Original post by Advanced Subsidiary)
    I don't know what the big deal is with everybody complaining about the government. You voted for them and knew this would happen. Ok maybe not the coalition, that was unexpected.
    What? If you voted a Lib Dem in because they said they'd oppose a rise in tuition fees, then they turned out to be one of 28 traitors, how can you be blamed?
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    What? If you voted a Lib Dem in because they said they'd oppose a rise in tuition fees, then they turned out to be one of 28 traitors, how can you be blamed?
    I did take back my statement by saying that the coalition was unexpected..


    (Original post by Threepigs)
    Hey, hey - I'm only 16.
    Ah i apologise lol, I'm only referring to the adults.
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Danny Alexander MP for the Liberal Democrats looks like a fat, ginger Chandler from Friends.

    The only other difference is one I laugh at because he's funny and one I laugh at because he's a Liberal Democrat Blue coat.




    :cry2: H...H...H...How Dare YOU!!! Compare ANY POLITICIAN TO CHANDLER BING >.<

    :'( *sniff*
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    (Original post by Advanced Subsidiary)
    I don't know what the big deal is with everybody complaining about the government. You voted for them and knew this would happen. Ok maybe not the coalition, that was unexpected.
    The point is, those who voted for Lib Dem voted for a party that CATEGORICALLY stated that they would NOT raise tuition fees.

    So the big deal is people feel like they have been lied to and have every reason to feel like this.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Labour was re-elected with a wide majority after entering an illegal war.

    Whilst I do disagree with the Liberal Democrats backing the fee rises, I believe they are getting a far harder ticket than their Labour counterparts.

    Illegal invasion that leads to the death of 66,000 civilians VS graduates paying more for their degree than previously.

    Hmm...
    Except it was actually a legal intervention. Nor would the fact that if it was 'illegal' actually make it immoral to break the law - or does bandying around the word illegal just somehow make your argument stronger?
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    :rofl:
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    (Original post by callum9999)
    Most manifesto promises by any party are "PR stunts". It's no coincidence that just before an election, parties suddenly start coming up with loads of fancy policies to grab the attention of the relevant demographic.

    And I'm pretty sure the Lib Dems are focussed on more important things than the frankly trivial matter of how high tuition fees are - dropping this is in no way "dropping everything they believe in", it's merely one of their policies. And I've yet to see a valid reason why tuition fees shouldn't be increased, it's just "I don't want to pay more" and hysterical lies about affordability.
    It's a sad reflection of the state of our political system that we now take it for granted that what a party promises prior to an election is no more than mere fancy. Democracy in this country is a myth: the government, supposedly representatives of the people, are now so removed from we the public that the term has become completely hollow.

    Tuition Fees have long been an integral part of the Lib Dem image, and to abandon such a flagship policy means to, in effect, abandon the rest, for it only follows that any other policy previously considered integral to the party's identity will be sacrificed for this sham coalition.

    Why should fees not be raised? Primarily because it will widen the gap between classes, massively diminishing the opportunities available to those born into Proletarian and lower-middle class households. Yes, I am aware that loans will be made available, however such high levels of debt will affect credit ratings and one's quality of life for considerable years to come, where as those born into wealthy households will have no such problems.

    Furthermore, from an ideological perspective, I am completely against the government cutting 80% of University funding for the sake of the free market. "Value", "sausage factory" universities will spring up as a result - offering cheap, poor quality education and easy degrees. This is how capitalism works. Education should not be used to feed the machine.

    Finally, it is wrong of the government to make the younger generation pay for the mistakes of the old. Those who will be affected, including myself, have never voted before, nor have we ever bought houses or taken out extraordinary loans. We were never taken in by the superficial shine of the bubble. Cut jobs, cut pensions, the current generation deserve it for living such materialistic, unsustainable lifestyles. But don't punish our future, because only in our future can we find hope.
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    (Original post by Billy Pilgrim)
    It's a sad reflection of the state of our political system that we now take it for granted that what a party promises prior to an election is no more than mere fancy. Democracy in this country is a myth: the government, supposedly representatives of the people, are now so removed from we the public that the term has become completely hollow.

    Tuition Fees have long been an integral part of the Lib Dem image, and to abandon such a flagship policy means to, in effect, abandon the rest, for it only follows that any other policy previously considered integral to the party's identity will be sacrificed for this sham coalition.

    Why should fees not be raised? Primarily because it will widen the gap between classes, massively diminishing the opportunities available to those born into Proletarian and lower-middle class households. Yes, I am aware that loans will be made available, however such high levels of debt will affect credit ratings and one's quality of life for considerable years to come, where as those born into wealthy households will have no such problems.

    Furthermore, from an ideological perspective, I am completely against the government cutting 80% of University funding for the sake of the free market. "Value", "sausage factory" universities will spring up as a result - offering cheap, poor quality education and easy degrees. This is how capitalism works. Education should not be used to feed the machine.

    Finally, it is wrong of the government to make the younger generation pay for the mistakes of the old. Those who will be affected, including myself, have never voted before, nor have we ever bought houses or taken out extraordinary loans. We were never taken in by the superficial shine of the bubble. Cut jobs, cut pensions, the current generation deserve it for living such materialistic, unsustainable lifestyles. But don't punish our future, because only in our future can we find hope.
    It's not a myth. If you wanted to you could either join a party or make your own and stand if you want, you just can't be bothered.

    No it doesn't mean they abandon the rest. They will have abandoned the rest when they stop doing them...

    Why will it? Student loans have zero affect on credit rating, little effect on quality of life (repayments don't become significant until you are on a high wage). Obviously they won't have such problems - I don't see what concern that is of yours though? They have more money than you, tough. If it bothers you that much work on getting it yourself. And no, I'm not rich (exact opposite really) and I heavily believe in the rich subsidising the poor.

    I agree with you on the level of cuts (not what I was arguing against - very few people are complaining about the cuts, they are moaning about having to pay more). However, science etc. is still being subsidised, and the increased tuition fees will largely make up for the shortfall. I don't see your "sausage factory" argument as particularly credible - it's just a guess you made to suit your opinion.

    No it's not. It's not a punishment, it's reality - you really should realise life isn't fair by now... Who do you suggest should pay for it? And you're highly naive if you think the young are shouldering the burden of it - university cuts are tiny in the grand scheme of things.
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    (Original post by Benammieh)
    This is what happens when a crap useless party like the LibDems gets just a little power.
    Exactly, just tiny amount of power and the prospect of becoming deputy Prime minister a position with no power. The office officially doesn't even exist.
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    (Original post by Crazydavy)
    I have not fully read the post but I fully support. I am pretty sure the Liberal Democrats had the power to reject the legislation so they shouldn't give the rubbish about how they didn't get into power. They won't have a party come next election and I sincerely hope they do not. To think I used to support Nick Clegg!

    He has built a fake reality around himself that makes him think he is doing the right thing. The party is a joke.
    You have no credibility
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    (Original post by Planar)
    You have no credibility
    I have read it now. It made no difference at all to my point.
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    I would "like" this thread title if it was facebook
    But tbh, coming round to next election, everyone will have forgiven and/or forgotten this so no harm will be done - or at least not much.
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    (Original post by josh_v)
    The point is, those who voted for Lib Dem voted for a party that CATEGORICALLY stated that they would NOT raise tuition fees.

    So the big deal is people feel like they have been lied to and have every reason to feel like this.
    Read the last bit of my post!!!.

    -4 for you.
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    (Original post by Summergirl.x)
    I would "like" this thread title if it was facebook
    But tbh, coming round to next election, everyone will have forgiven and/or forgotten this so no harm will be done - or at least not much.
    Those starting university in 2012 will coincidently be leaving university in 2015, which is roughly the same time as the next general election is due, unless they call it early. And if that happens then its likely that those students will have just paid their second £9k instalment.

    Somehow i dont think they will forget.
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    (Original post by Advanced Subsidiary)
    Read the last bit of my post!!!.

    -4 for you.
    The coalition was unexpected? Are you suggesting you did not expect there to be a coalition government or that you did not expect a coalition government to implement this policy?

    If its the former i suggest that you are very much mistaken and that a coalition was very likely, even from as far back as 2006.
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    (Original post by callum9999)
    It's not a myth. If you wanted to you could either join a party or make your own and stand if you want, you just can't be bothered.

    No it doesn't mean they abandon the rest. They will have abandoned the rest when they stop doing them...

    Why will it? Student loans have zero affect on credit rating, little effect on quality of life (repayments don't become significant until you are on a high wage). Obviously they won't have such problems - I don't see what concern that is of yours though? They have more money than you, tough. If it bothers you that much work on getting it yourself. And no, I'm not rich (exact opposite really) and I heavily believe in the rich subsidising the poor.

    I agree with you on the level of cuts (not what I was arguing against - very few people are complaining about the cuts, they are moaning about having to pay more). However, science etc. is still being subsidised, and the increased tuition fees will largely make up for the shortfall. I don't see your "sausage factory" argument as particularly credible - it's just a guess you made to suit your opinion.

    No it's not. It's not a punishment, it's reality - you really should realise life isn't fair by now... Who do you suggest should pay for it? And you're highly naive if you think the young are shouldering the burden of it - university cuts are tiny in the grand scheme of things.
    Unfortunately the current voting system means it is virtually impossible for small parties to get a foot in the door; instead we get this perpetually revolving clique of Oxford PPE graduates.

    Personally money doesn't really bother me, I'm arguing from more an ideological perspective, i.e. the opportunity to be successful in life. Unfortunately in our capitalist society money equates to power.

    I think the sausage factory argument is perfectly credible. As soon as you throw something into the free market, it is forced to compete to survive, and to compete means undercutting the opposition in order to attract custom. This could be achieved either through price or quality. Quality is expensive and difficult to maintain, and reputation is even harder to built and sustain, especially with such strong, established ready-made brands (such as Oxford, Cambridge, UCL) already at the top of the league tables. Therefore cutting admission fees by hiring lesser qualified staff, packing lecture halls and churning out degrees conveyor-belt style will be an excellent way to survive.

    University cuts may be small comparatively; however, they affect those at the bottom of the ladder, i.e. students, significantly more than other cuts. Such 'tiny' cuts have rather large knock-on effects. And yes, I am naive, but fortunately I am yet to be trodden into the ground by life, and so I can still hope, however naively, for a fairer society one day.
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    My condolences. :rip:
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    (Original post by josh_v)
    Those starting university in 2012 will coincidently be leaving university in 2015, which is roughly the same time as the next general election is due, unless they call it early. And if that happens then its likely that those students will have just paid their second £9k instalment.

    Somehow i dont think they will forget.
    Meh, just a suggestion of what my politics teacher said. Last time labour weren't affected from putting the fees up..


    And hey don't think I'm not happy with these fees, I'll be paying them as I'm on deferred entry.! The details are so badly thought through. Hopefully they correct them.
 
 
 
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