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March of Resistance to Education & Public Sector Cuts Announced: 20 December, London Watch

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      (Original post by ajp100688)
      Erm aren't you forgetting that the Poll Tax just re-emerged a couple years down the line with the Council Tax, which is essentially the Poll Tax just in a cuddlier form.
      The difference between the two was very significant.

      The Poll Tax was imposed on everyone who was eligible to vote...the same amount regardless of income or amassed wealth.

      The Council Tax is paid on a calculated amount dependent on the the rateable value of one's home. Essentially, the more valuable a house, the more is paid.

      So in essence, the wealthier paid more than the less wealthy...unlike the new rate of tuition fees!

      I'm really glad that the protests will continue...it is all we have left as citizens with which to bring our feelings of the actions of government to their immediate attention.
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      I'm glad I'll have left London by then

      (Original post by TShadow383)
      What utter *******s.

      If the measures discriminate against anyone , it is the children of middle-income families, not poor enough to get one or more years of their fees paid for, but not rich enough to have any parental help in paying them off. This actually comprises the vast majority of the student popultation (including myself).

      Why should coming from a low-income background effect your employment after graduation? It won't, and hence I don't see how giving away free years of tuition to those from low income families makes sense.


      That said, so few of the people who attend these glorified street fights seem to know the details of what they're protesting against, I doubt any of your fellow rioters would be able to point that out. They'll be too busy vandalising public buildings and shouting "**** tories" a lot.
      You have to be really poor to get free school dinners. My household income is ~£11,000 and I don't even qualify. Just pointing out that it's not just 'middle income' people who have to pay more, other 'poor' people do too.

      (Original post by the_13th)
      LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO OUR EDUCATION!
      THIS IS POOR STUDENTS DISCRIMINATION!
      How? They can still go to uni. Use better arguments rather than throwing out ones like this; it really undermines your position.



      Edit: Also poor timing. A lot of London uni students will have gone home by then.
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      (Original post by the_13th)
      Use national express coaches. You can get tickets in advance (funfares) a lot cheaper
      That costs money. It's also affected by the snow - particularly if you live in the north. I want protest but don't waste time with little protests.

      Organise one for the New Year when everyone will be able to make it.

      GFS 850hpa
      http://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten/
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      Alternatively, instead of spending your time protesting about something that's a done deal, why not save up some money to contribute to your tuition fees by doing some work? This is a far better use of your time and my tax contributions.
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      (Original post by twl)
      That costs money. It's also affected by the snow - particularly if you live in the north. I want protest but don't waste time with little protests.

      Organise one for the New Year when everyone will be able to make it.

      GFS 850hpa
      http://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten/
      You realise the police would put down any protest on new years brutally? They have enough problems without a bunch of tossers complaining that they don't get a free ride.
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      (Original post by The_Great_One)
      Boring. Police have confirmed that next protest they will use a "intrusive and robust approach"

      So basically, they are brazenly saying that they will cast the first stone? If that's not being 'intent on violence' then I don't know what is...
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      (Original post by yawn)
      The difference between the two was very significant.

      The Poll Tax was imposed on everyone who was eligible to vote...the same amount regardless of income or amassed wealth.

      The Council Tax is paid on a calculated amount dependent on the the rateable value of one's home. Essentially, the more valuable a house, the more is paid.

      So in essence, the wealthier paid more than the less wealthy...unlike the new rate of tuition fees!

      I'm really glad that the protests will continue...it is all we have left as citizens with which to bring our feelings of the actions of government to their immediate attention.
      Exactly like the new rate of tuition fees. The notional charge is the same but the actual amount you end up paying depends upon your income after graduation. Interest over and above inflation is not charged until payments begin iirc. The balance is wiped after 30 years and not at death. Student loans do not affect credit ratings.

      I'm actually against the reforms (and of course this is all theoretical, and I do think that the government has rushed all of this through as well), but the only thing in this that is ostensibly going to prevent poorer students from going to university is misinformation and the psychological deterrent (which cannot, admittedy, be discounted) that "£9,000 a year" represents as opposed to "£3,225 a year". The problem with the reforms (for me) is that they further represent the commodification of education and the reduction of all the benefits of higher education to their expected economic returns (and even if it were the case that HE should be considered as valuable only according to market allocations of value, the fact that obtaining a degree had generalised economic benefits for everyone in the form of a more highly skilled workforce, higher wages and thus a higher tax take, would seem to contradict the claim that university education benefits only its direct recipients. The government's own [admittedly wildly speculative, but hey, that's what they based their calculations on] figures for the benefits of a degree in terms of salary indicate that graduates pay an additional amount of tax over and above the cost of their university education as it is.).

      I don't protest against fee rises but against fees per se, and not just against cuts to arts and humanities but against the ideology that arts and humanities should not be funded because their benefits don't easily translate into marketable commodities. The argument that this increases social mobility, too, is predicated on a notion that social mobility consists in financial success in a world where the only measure of anything is in £. Why expect everyone to accept such a limitation? I don't want to live in a world where nothing is sacred except the mighty god of all things that is exchange-value, and where sacredness amounts to exchange-value.
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      (Original post by yawn)

      So in essence, the wealthier paid more than the less wealthy...unlike the new rate of tuition fees!
      If I'm not mistaken, that's how tuition fees work too :curious: People who earn more after graduation pay more. Can you explain your thinking?
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      (Original post by Mad Vlad)
      Alternatively, instead of spending your time protesting about something that's a done deal, why not save up some money to contribute to your tuition fees by doing some work? This is a far better use of your time and my tax contributions.
      Yeah, who ever heard of legislation being repealed? :dunce:
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      (Original post by yawn)
      So in essence, the wealthier paid more than the less wealthy...unlike the new rate of tuition fees!
      Yikes, you really put your foot in it there >< The way tuition fees work is that the more you earn... the more you pay.
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      (Original post by Creepy)
      I'm working in London that day, if you end up causing me travel disruption I will not be happy.
      I work in London every day, and my bus route goes straight through Westminster and Parliament Square >< My travel was severely disrupted and it took me over 2 hours to travel home, about the same time it would have taken me to walk.

      I tell you what that did not do, it did not make me more sympathetic to students.
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        (Original post by Revd. Mike)
        Yikes, you really put your foot in it there >< The way tuition fees work is that the more you earn... the more you pay.
        The more you earn, the quicker you repay.
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        (Original post by yawn)
        The more you earn, the quicker you repay.
        No the more you earn the more you pay
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        (Original post by Revd. Mike)
        I work in London every day, and my bus route goes straight through Westminster and Parliament Square >< My travel was severely disrupted and it took me over 2 hours to travel home, about the same time it would have taken me to walk.

        I tell you what that did not do, it did not make me more sympathetic to students.
        Nobody really cares how much sympathy you have for the students. You arent the one thats going to make the change, its up to MPs to decide that. And if they arent going to be influenced by the students, why the hell would they care what the rest of the public think. Even if the whole population were on the students side, at the end of the day its not our decision.
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        (Original post by littleshambles)
        Yeah, who ever heard of legislation being repealed? :dunce:
        You'll pretty much need a general election for that, by which time it'll be too late. Sorry.

        My point is, no government really gives a stuff about protesters, they're a vocal minority. Peaceful protesting doesn't achieve anything and violent protests do more harm than good to causes. The proper way to influence government is using politics; lobbying, meeting your MP and persuading them. If you've got a better (costed) solution to how to bring down the deficit, I'm sure your MP would be more than happy to discuss it with you.

        Currently, the cupboards are bare. There is no more money. The government has to reduce the deficit, and it's so typical of many students (particularly younger students) to not see past the ends of their noses and think that this is unfair on them, but this really is the best of a bad bunch of solutions.
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          (Original post by Aj12)
          No the more you earn the more you pay
          Obviously, I am aware that the repayments are higher the more one's income exceeds £21,000 but...I haven't seen anywhere that the more affluent graduate pays more than the debt s/he has incurred.

          Are you implying that they do?

          The Coalition have researched their case before Cable made his recommendations. They know that the overwhelming majority of graduate starts working at graduate jobs on pay levels exceeding £21,000 so there will be a very small proportion of graduates earning less than £21,000 on jobs that do not require a degree...thus very few who will not start repaying their loans immediately on commencing employment.

          You've been hoodwinked if you keep repeating the mantra....

          Best thing for the current 6th formers to do is to remain perpetual students and thus, never have to repay loans.
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          (Original post by yawn)
          The more you earn, the quicker you repay.
          But it's cut off after 30 years...

          Here's a table of how much people will pay (obviously very basic. say they earn an average of that amount for 30 years):

          £21k or below... nothing (current students would pay £13,500)
          £25k... £10,800 (current students £22,500, therefore likely pay off loan if it's a three year course)
          £30K... £24,300
          £35K... £37,800
          £40k... £51,300 (therefore likely pay off loan if it's a three year course)
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            (Original post by Mad Vlad)
            but this really is the best of a bad bunch of solutions.
            For the benefit of a country, education is not expensive...ignorance is.
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            (Original post by yawn)
            For the benefit of a country, education is not expensive...ignorance is.
            For the benefit of the person education is not expensive ignorance is.:rolleyes:
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              (Original post by ily_em)
              But it's cut off after 30 years...

              Here's a table of how much people will pay (obviously very basic. say they earn an average of that amount for 30 years):

              £21k or below... nothing (current students would pay £13,500)
              £25k... £10,800 (current students £22,500, therefore likely pay off loan if it's a three year course)
              £30K... £24,300
              £35K... £29,700
              £40k... £51,300 (therefore likely pay off loan if it's a three year course)
              And for the wealthiest earning in excess of £51,3000 repaying their loans through PAYE...repaid even quicker as I said.

              They don't have a yoke choking them for the thirty best years of their lives...when they would be raising a family, buying their own homes, helping their children through their education years and investing money for their retirements.
             
             
             
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