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tuition fees etc.....DEMOCRACY IS A JOKE AND A FACADE!!!! watch

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    In this country we have 3 clones to choose from, bred from Eton to Oxbridge in order to run the country despite not truly understanding it or its people.

    But hey, at least we have 3 clones to choose from - some countries don't.
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    What else do you suggest exactly? Proportional representation? Which would then lead to coalition government after coalition government?

    The numbers of students protesting is far lower than touted in the media. Far lower. However, it is good that the media focus on the raving idiots who smash things up and throw things at Prince Charles' car. Yeah. Really paints a good picture of University students doesent it?
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    What really annoys me about the tuition fee raise is that we still bailed out ireland, spent £17 million getting World Cup votes from Fifa and are going to hold the Olympics. We have enough money that we can do that, but still need to raise tuition fees? It's ridiculous. There'll be thousands of people that will either not be able to go to University, or end up in huge debt from student loans. How is this fair?
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    (Original post by The Conman)
    Exactly, the people who vote for it are selfish gits who it doesn't affect. it's the students who get screwed over. And if violence is what it takes to reverse the votes, then violence it is. If I was old enough to join...
    Er we're all in it for ourselves - even if we support charitable causes it's because *we* believe in it.
    That's the point of democracy.

    You not wanting to pay more - is *selfish* because it benefits you...
    Democracy doesn't mean "What I say goes" , it's what the majority want.
    And I would assume the majority of people (who are workers not students)
    would rather me or new students etc pay more, than them pay higher taxes...
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    (Original post by The Conman)
    What really annoys me about the tuition fee raise is that we still bailed out ireland, spent £17 million getting World Cup votes from Fifa and are going to hold the Olympics. We have enough money that we can do that, but still need to raise tuition fees? It's ridiculous. There'll be thousands of people that will either not be able to go to University, or end up in huge debt from student loans. How is this fair?
    because barring healthcare, the cabinet office, energy and climate change and international development, every single other government department had funding cut.

    42,000 Armed forces and MoD civilian staff have lost their jobs; are you seriously going to sit here and tell me that your desire for a less-debt ridden degree (which you don't have to pay back if you get a crapjob) is more important than the welfare and income of 42,000 families?
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    (Original post by DarkWhite)

    We don't have a perfectly democratic system, but I wouldn't say any country really does. You do realise that if you were in CHina you could be facing severe punishment for this thread?
    Thats nonsense, their anti-government 'Blogosphere' is one of the most active in the world. They cant talk too much in public so they rant online. Besides, why would China dislike my saying that western democracy is not as good as the chinese system? In my view the only benefit of democracy is stability and peace, if china has it too then there is little difference between us and them.

    (Original post by DarkWhite)
    Let's take this step by step.



    Whether we like it or not, the media plays on negative emotions. People want to know what's going on, and student protests are going on. It's not a case of wanting to make a divide, so much as wanting to sell more newspapers.
    I agree with you here slightly, though I think they over-emphasised the thuggary aspect...

    (Original post by DarkWhite)

    So they should
    fair point. But what do you make of the smear campaign and attempt to arrest Assange as a phaedophile. Even if its true, it is very obvious that they have been digging around in his past to find grounds to arrest him, thats not in doubt. Its the same thing they did to Al Capone, who they arrested on grounds of tax evasion - its very sneaky and cheeky,THEY WISH TO ARREST THE FOUNDER OF WIKILEAKS IN ORDER TO SUPPRESS THE TRUTH NOT TO PUNISH HIM AS A CHILD TOUCHER - THEY HAVE FOUND A WAY TO DO IT THROUGH CHILD ABUSE CHARGES, IT SEEMS ABIT DARK AND 1984-esque.

    (Original post by DarkWhite)
    It's not illegal. You elect somebody with an element of trust.
    Im pretty certain there is a rule stating that manifesto promises need to be pursued, certainly not attacked! Can anyone explain this further?
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    (Original post by lechaton-x)
    You're right, democracy is a joke...
    It's a joke that people actually voted them into government.
    nobody voted a coalition into government. In fact, before the election most people didnt think a Con-Dem coalition was possible, only a Lib-Lab! So they werent even voted in.
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    Lol at thinking the UK is a democracy
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    (Original post by inksplodge)
    people will always lie in politics, so get used to it. the true politians who generally want to help the country will probably never get into power - because there are very few. power is corrupt :dontknow:
    We shouldn't be prepared to lie down and just accept this though! If democracy (true democracy) is what we want, we should tear down the walls of the establishment until they give it to us.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Mhmm...if things don't go the way you want them to, clearly the rest of the world is evil and intrinsically intent on personally screwing you over.

    Very mature response :nothing:
    Maybe learn not to be self-righteous, smug and condesending.

    The point of this debate is to suggest that democracy is a delusion, it is not government by the people for the people as dreamers say. It is a popularity contest in which ambitious and unscrupulous power hungry suits tell lies to get votes in the box, when they are in power they seem to have no real reason to do what they public say....thats a point of view, Im not saying its a bad thing. they should do what they like as obviously they know far more about the important issues than the masses - i.e I imagine Nick Clegg has changed his principles on the basis of seeing hwat the facts of this issue really are. MY POINT IS THAT:

    Us in the West need ot stop being so self-righteous about the brilliance of democracy because the benefits of democracy do not seem to exist, aside from stability which China has..
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    (Original post by Unvincibledudeman)
    We shouldn't be prepared to lie down and just accept this though! If democracy (true democracy) is what we want, we should tear down the walls of the establishment until they give it to us.
    And what about those that are supporting these cuts/coalition?
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    (Original post by AFAIK)
    nobody voted a coalition into government. In fact, before the election most people didnt think a Con-Dem coalition was possible, only a Lib-Lab! So they werent even voted in.
    A lib Lab coaltion would have far less of a mandate than the current government
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    (Original post by AFAIK)
    Thats nonsense, their anti-government 'Blogosphere' is one of the most active in the world. They cant talk too much in public so they rant online. Besides, why would China dislike my saying that western democracy is not as good as the chinese system? In my view the only benefit of democracy is stability and peace, if china has it too then there is little difference between us and them.
    I'm not too good with the tuition fees stuff, too much has gone on for me to follow. But China is the most censored contries in the world! I think the comment about you being arrested would be in relation to critisising the government, which you REALLY wouldn't be allowed to do in China. Liu Xiaobo was awarded the Nobel Prize yesterday, but couldn't accept it because he's a political prisoner in China after publicly disagreeing and calling for reforms to the goverment. When the prize was awarded in his absence, BBC and CNN coverage of the event in China went down... complete censorship.
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    (Original post by Rooster523)
    because barring healthcare, the cabinet office, energy and climate change and international development, every single other government department had funding cut.
    Most departments were not cut by more than 20%, education has been cut by 80%!!!!! ConDems know that the students are the easiest group to f-u-c-k because other social groups thing that students always protest or that they are lucky to have university or a host of other reasons.

    (Original post by Rooster523)
    42,000 Armed forces and MoD civilian staff have lost their jobs; are you seriously going to sit here and tell me that your desire for a less-debt ridden degree (which you don't have to pay back if you get a crapjob) is more important than the welfare and income of 42,000 families?
    The economy is a knowledge economy, the only thing that will keep British welfare high in future is a highly skilled, highly educated workforce. THE BEST THING WE CAN INVEST TAXPAYER MONEY IN IS EDUCATION.

    Cutting the army is sensible as it is generally immoral and useless and hampers our future economic prospects by making certain countries hate us and by making us waste time training meatheads to rape ragheads.
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    (Original post by The Conman)
    Exactly, the people who vote for it are selfish gits who it doesn't affect. it's the students who get screwed over. And if violence is what it takes to reverse the votes, then violence it is. If I was old enough to join...
    Whereas from my opinion, the "selfish gits" would be the students demanding the taxpayers pay for their education, despite every single person in the country being able to afford to do so themselves. You're adults, you should be looking after yourself (well I say you, I'm also a student but I'm not so self-obsessed that I demand others pay for my education).
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    (Original post by linkdapink)
    I'm not too good with the tuition fees stuff, too much has gone on for me to follow. But China is the most censored contries in the world! I think the comment about you being arrested would be in relation to critisising the government, which you REALLY wouldn't be allowed to do in China. Liu Xiaobo was awarded the Nobel Prize yesterday, but couldn't accept it because he's a political prisoner in China after publicly disagreeing and calling for reforms to the goverment. When the prize was awarded in his absence, BBC and CNN coverage of the event in China went down... complete censorship.
    China is highly censored, however hundreds of thousands of people rant about the government through blogs on a daily basis. Im not standing up for China, Im just trying to get rid of some western propaganda about what happens in China.

    Also for your information:

    Liu Xiaobo was the most important intellectual behind Charter 08 which is a call by chinese academics to have a mini-revolution to bring in democracy.

    Liu Xiabo is highly outspoken, before Charter 08 he was famous for saying “china could only be saved by being colonized for 2 or 3 centuries" obviously China does not like him for this.

    Liu Xiaobo has also said that "every war undertaken by the USA has been good for humanity"

    China has reason to dislike him, he is not solely in gaol for seeking democracy, and China has a right to be offended by his inflammatory diatribes.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    A lib Lab coaltion would have far less of a mandate than the current government
    arguably not. The majority of liberal voters would vote for Labour as a second choice, it was forseeable at the time that LibLab might exist, no one believed ConDem could exist. YOU COULD FIND a huge majority of liberal voters that would have voted labour had they known that Clegg was going to do the unthinkable and go back on all his policies to join the right.

    And the current govt. has no mandate, we are splitting hairs to compare potential mandatelessness with mandatelessness.
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    (Original post by AFAIK)
    arguably not. The majority of liberal voters would vote for Labour as a second choice, it was forseeable at the time that LibLab might exist, no one believed ConDem could exist. YOU COULD FIND a huge majority of liberal voters that would have voted labour had they known that Clegg was going to do the unthinkable and go back on all his policies to join the right.

    And the current govt. has no mandate, we are splitting hairs to compare potential mandatelessness with mandatelessness.
    Says you.

    I bet I could find Labour members who would happily vote Lib Dem however it does not mean anything.

    As I said before based on the election result a Lib/Lab coalition would have less of a mandate. Don't give me meaningless speculation of what people might or could do.
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    "I have to pay more for things so democracy has failed me."
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    (Original post by Prince Rupert)
    36% of the vote no less, Labour only managed 29%, the Lib Dems and their promises on tuition fees - 21%

    How is that possibly a) not a mandate for the Tories to carry out the cuts and plans on tuition fees they were promising in their manifesto and b) in anyway undemocratic when millions voted for them?

    Students need to wake up and smell the coffee I'm afraid
    Labour won the 2005 election with 35%. Thats our voting system....
 
 
 
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