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Harriet Harman showing us why any respectable British person hates Labour.... Watch

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    (Original post by The Cornerstone)
    We shouldn't strip away the rights and joys of having children based on their income. Besides they might not be able, for whatever reason, to get hold of contraception
    That's exactly how you decide to have children. What the hell? You don't have more children than you can afford...that's how it works. Your suggestion is we let everyone pop out as many kids as possible and make the taxpayer pay for their irresponsible actions? :lolwut:
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    Very odd, I would like to know more about what she actually meant.
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    I probably wouldn't do a very good job of explaining why this article is a load of *******s, so I'll just direct you here:

    http://www.butireaditinthepaper.co.u...ut-immigrants/

    I think that just about covers it.
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    (Original post by TotalLifeForever)
    You're so Conservative that it's ridiculous. If that money is being used to educate people in the Third World, and to keep people alive, then I don't mind that I will be a little lower on income and unable to get that Xbox, or iPod, or whatever material thing. Life is more important that wealth.

    Typical Daily Mail sensationalising it to make it seem like all immigrants are doing it to mock us all and our system.
    Good post.

    @Tories, what do you think about Cameron ring-fencing international aid but slashing benefits, then? Just a note: I agree with ring-fencing international aid.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    That's exactly how you decide to have children. What the hell? You don't have more children than you can afford...that's how it works. Your suggestion is we let everyone pop out as many kids as possible and make the taxpayer pay for their irresponsible actions? :lolwut:
    (Original post by milkytea)
    That's a ridiculous thing to say. That statement is simply a mark of how cushy we have it in this country. In many African countires, contraception is not available. Families need children to help farm and for general labour. Furthermore, it's hardly the baby's fault that their parents decided to have it, is it? So we should allow babies to die simply because their parents made a bad call by having them? That's not even counting for natural disasters, locusts destroying crops, and thousands of other potential hazards...
    What do you think about that^?
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    (Original post by milkytea)
    Their sons and daughters may be here, but if so it seems strange that they would send their benefits home rather than spend them on their children, doesn't it?

    Anyway, they may have extended family including children (nephews, nieces, cousins) living in poverty in their home country.

    "They aren't very beneficial to this country" - well I'm sure many white Americans would have said that about black people 100 years ago, wouldn't they? A group with low employment back then, certainly. But why don't you ask what the UK, a rich country, can do for others rather than the other way around? Innocent people die every day, a lot of people here are simply too pig-headed and cosy to either think or care about it.

    Frankly I can't believe that a student website is sounding so overwhelmingly Daily Mail-esque. Sort it out, guys.

    Everywhere immigrants live becomes a complete dump because the money we give on them is all sent abroad. There is no benefit to this country of someone who comes here and doesn't work. If that person goes a step further and sends their money abroad that we give to them to survive, so they ghettoise their area, this makes it much worse. If that person takes it another step further and starts having more than the replacement rate of children and swamps all the doctors surgeries and schools in the area, this makes them even less beneficial.

    The UK state is already spending some 9.4 billion on overseas aid. The UK citizens independently give 7.1 billion per year. I think we have the right, when our country is in decline, to complain when a bunch of benefit scroungers who don't work for generation after generation come here and abuse a system that was created as a stop gap for people who are temporarily unemployed.
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    (Original post by TotalLifeForever)
    Typical Daily Mail sensationalising it to make it seem like all immigrants are doing it to mock us all and our system.
    If you'd read the article it doesnt try to make out all immigrants do this, it even says its only some.

    The point is that one of our MPs is trying to actively encourage this when WE'VE GOT NO MONEY!!!!!!!
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    (Original post by future_hopeful_uk)
    If you'd read the article it doesnt try to make out all immigrants do this, it even says its only some.

    The point is that one of our MPs is trying to actively encourage this when WE'VE GOT NO MONEY!!!!!!!
    We've got no money, have we? Oh, I actually believe we are one of the wealthiest nations in the world, even despite the economic crisis.

    You try and tell an African in poverty that we have 'no money', see what reaction you get there.
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    (Original post by TotalLifeForever)
    You're so Conservative that it's ridiculous. If that money is being used to educate people in the Third World, and to keep people alive, then I don't mind that I will be a little lower on income and unable to get that Xbox, or iPod, or whatever material thing. Life is more important that wealth.

    Typical Daily Mail sensationalising it to make it seem like all immigrants are doing it to mock us all and our system.
    Why thankyou.

    That's not the point. The point is that people come over here, claim our benefits (sorry, why come here in the first place when you travel through many countries first? Why not stop at France, Germany, etc? Oh yeah that's right, to claim our welfare), and send them back home. As the official said, it's an irresponsible use of our money. We're in a time of financial austerity, we should be looking after our own country first - we can sort out other people's once we're back on our feet.

    I've never said that all immigrants do it. My father's family were immigrants, and they worked all their lives. I have no problem with immigration providing people work and abide by our laws.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Everywhere immigrants live becomes a complete dump because the money we give on them is all sent abroad. There is no benefit to this country of someone who comes here and doesn't work. If that person goes a step further and sends their money abroad that we give to them to survive, so they ghettoise their area, this makes it much worse. If that person takes it another step further and starts having more than the replacement rate of children and swamps all the doctors surgeries and schools in the area, this makes them even less beneficial.

    The UK state is already spending some 9.4 billion on overseas aid. The UK citizens independently give 7.1 billion per year. I think we have the right, when our country is in decline, to complain when a bunch of benefit scroungers who don't work for generation after generation come here and abuse a system that was created as a stop gap for people who are temporarily unemployed.
    So British people that live on benefits and are unemployed don't live in ghettos, then? You seem frighteningly xenophobic. My point was that in 20 or 30 years time either the immigrants or their children will be able to become perfectly equal citizens with good jobs, and pay tax. You also seem to think that most or all immigrants fail to find work, which is a large oversight.

    Generation after generation is groundless... most immigrant's children get good jobs, even if their parents can't.

    You have to remember that first generation immigrants lack qualifications, experience and sometimes fluent English. That's not their fault.
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    (Original post by milkytea)
    Good post.

    @Tories, what do you think about Cameron ring-fencing international aid but slashing benefits, then? Just a note: I agree with ring-fencing international aid.
    International aid isnt about preventing aids in africa, its more complicated like helping India and Brazil so that we can benefits as their economics grow.....

    I dont believe in giving people money simple so they can afford children, home or abroad.
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    (Original post by milkytea)
    What do you think about that^?
    I think it's for their own government to sort. We can't keep subsidising people when 1) we have no money, and 2) it will encourage irresponsible behavior.

    I agree with the point about contraception though, it should be made more widely available.
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    Your post and the title of the article are misleading.

    She did NOT encourage people to send benefit payments home. Nothing in the reported facts suggests that to be the case.

    She suggested that people should gain tax relief where they send money home to, for example, educate their family. This is exactly the same argument as the popular Conservative argument that we should have tax breaks for people who give to charity.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Why thankyou.

    That's not the point. The point is that people come over here, claim our benefits (sorry, why come here in the first place when you travel through many countries first? Why not stop at France, Germany, etc? Oh yeah that's right, to claim our welfare), and send them back home. As the official said, it's an irresponsible use of our money. We're in a time of financial austerity, we should be looking after our own country first - we can sort out other people's once we're back on our feet.

    I've never said that all immigrants do it. My father's family were immigrants, and they worked all their lives. I have no problem with immigration providing people work and abide by our laws.
    I never said that you said all immigrants do it. I said the Daily Mail make it seem this way.
    I just find it annoying that you use this argument as a broad way to complain about the very vague 'nanny state' and 'beneft dependency'. Some of your views seem to border on racism, when you claim 'people come over here and claim our benefits'. Our country may be in a bad way, but you shouldn't use that as an excuse to deprive people of the benefits they and their family need.

    You seem to take the view that all living on benefits are smoking cigars and toasting their good health to the state and its idiocy. Benefits are not that high, and are necessary to keep people from going into poverty. I'm sure some of you wealthy Conservatives cannot understand this idea.
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    (Original post by milkytea)
    Good post.

    @Tories, what do you think about Cameron ring-fencing international aid but slashing benefits, then? Just a note: I agree with ring-fencing international aid.
    I'd rather see both cut (I'd be a lot harsher with welfare cuts, but it's a start), but the international aid budget needs to be kept for political reasons, unfortunately. I think charities do a much better job of providing aid than governments do. Also, if we have surplus money, then we could give some to other countries, but when we're running a defeciet, it's highly irresponsible.
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    (Original post by TotalLifeForever)
    We've got no money, have we? Oh, I actually believe we are one of the wealthiest nations in the world, even despite the economic crisis.

    You try and tell an African in poverty that we have 'no money', see what reaction you get there.
    You have a credit card which allows you to spend £1 billion pounds..... somebody sees you have £1 billion-worth of goods and thinks you're a billionaire.

    What they dont realise is that your material wealth was bought on borrowed money........

    Britain isnt wealthy, its living on borrowed debt.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    I think it's for their own government to sort. We can't keep subsidising people when 1) we have no money, and 2) it will encourage irresponsible behavior.

    I agree with the point about contraception though, it should be made more widely available.
    Their governments are frequently corrupt (which is not the fault of the average citizen), and even if they aren't, many are simply incapable of providing the necessary aid because of economic stagnation. People in this country get all defensive when we have a recession... don't you realise that our economic problems are miniscule in comparison with most African, Asian and South American countries?

    I have a barrel load of work to finish tonight, so I'm going to have to hang up my debating boots for the evening. I encourage you to think about the morality of your own argument. What would you suggest, to stop giving benefits to immigrants? To prevent them sending money abroad to help those who are truly in need?
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    (Original post by milkytea)
    So British people that live on benefits and are unemployed don't live in ghettos, then? You seem frighteningly xenophobic. My point was that in 20 or 30 years time either the immigrants or their children will be able to become perfectly equal citizens with good jobs, and pay tax. You also seem to think that most or all immigrants fail to find work, which is a large oversight.

    Generation after generation is groundless... most immigrant's children get good jobs, even if their parents can't.

    You have to remember that first generation immigrants lack qualifications, experience and sometimes fluent English. That's not their fault.
    Majority British unemployed areas are no where near as ghettoised as immigrant communities like Leicester. Do you have any proof that most immigrants children get good jobs? Because as far as I can tell Pakistani's have been here for 3-4 generations, and over half of them still don't work. Furthermore they keep deliberately bringing in spouses from overseas, so they never overcome the problems you list. They have had 20 or 30 years, they have had almost 50 years, and the changes you claim will happen haven't. It's also strange that Polish people who face the same problems you claim exist, have an almost 100% employment rate after only 1-2 years of being in Britain.

    Why you are incapable of making basic observations of these communities is unclear to me.
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    Daily Mail. Cracking source...

    On the other hand. Shows the incompetence of the current labour front benchers. I laughed.
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    (Original post by TotalLifeForever)
    I never said that you said all immigrants do it. I said the Daily Mail make it seem this way.
    I just find it annoying that you use this argument as a broad way to complain about the very vague 'nanny state' and 'beneft dependency'. Some of your views seem to border on racism, when you claim 'people come over here and claim our benefits'. Our country may be in a bad way, but you shouldn't use that as an excuse to deprive people of the benefits they and their family need.

    You seem to take the view that all living on benefits are smoking cigars and toasting their good health to the state and its idiocy. Benefits are not that high, and are necessary to keep people from going into poverty. I'm sure some of you wealthy Conservatives cannot understand this idea.
    How do my views border on racism? Saying that some people come over to claim benefits, when it's a fact that some do, is not racist. It's factually correct. The same way that some British people cheat the system. My views are the same towards scroungers, whatever nationality they may be.

    I accept that not everyone living on benefits is living the high life, but if it's so awful, they could always, y'know, get a job? They don't "need" benefits. I wouldn't deprive anyone of what their family needs, more encourage them to support themselves. They cannot rely on the state.
 
 
 
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