Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Why are so many people such idiots? watch

    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Well obviously people don't like being in debt, idiot.

    It's a bit different if your one of those idiots who blows 10k on a shopping spree or something, but this is for 3 Years of your life, not that long in the grand scheme of things to be possibly £40K+ in debt for.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by warhol)
    Well most of those you just listed are the minority vocational degrees; you can't believe that the average university graduate earns 100K a year.
    The whole point of the students' arguments is that there's less incentive to take a less useful degree, in say, arts/humanities because, as they won't be earning a lot, it will be more difficult to pay off. And there are far fewer students taking vocational degrees than non.
    well...tbh, people shouldn't be doing useless degrees...so its a good thing

    that said, I don't believe that humanities and social sciences (the decent ones ) are useless...on the contrary, I believe that they are hugely useful to society....

    its the degrees such as pottery, christian youth work, child services etc. that should not be done and it is these degrees that people will no longer be doing....and rightly so
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kat2pult)
    Yeah, lots of people seem to be making that mistake, but if someone said to you that you'll likely be at least £30,000 in debt by student fees alone, and a further £12,000 in debt for living costs, so the idea of £42,000 odd thousand would likely make many people think '****, I can't afford uni if it's going to cost that much'. They may think it'll take forever to pay back, and uni just isn't worth it any more.
    So, because they're having to pay more, all of sudden the idea of degree and the superior career and life prospects it provides isn't going to be worth it?
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Unvincibledudeman)
    Considering the average extra earnings over a lifetime are something like £40 grand for an arts student, and you can expect to be anywhere up to £50 grand in debt at the end of uni, for some people this new system is not going to pay off.
    well then, how convenient that the debt gets written off after 20 years (going up from 15)


    (Original post by /dev/null)
    Well obviously people don't like being in debt, idiot.

    It's a bit different if your one of those idiots who blows 10k on a shopping spree or something, but this is for 3 Years of your life, not that long in the grand scheme of things to be possibly £40K+ in debt for.
    well then, how convenient that the debt doesn't affect your credit rating
    and also that it'll be going towards a hopefully worthwhile education, as opposed to some pretty clothes.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by theths)
    well then, how convenient that the debt gets written off after 20 years (going up from 15)



    Surely it's more convenient if the debt is written off after 15 years instead of 20?
    And that wasn't my point. My point was that if your expected lifetime earnings only increase by £40k and it costs that much or more to go to uni, the only people studying arts degrees will be the people who can afford to (as in the people with the mindset that money is a worthwhile trade for reading literature at uni, or whatever it is arts students do).
    The whole plan is ridiculous. Given that graduates should be paying higher income tax (because their earnings are supposed to be higher), why should they also have the burden of debt? It's not even necessary. Plenty of European countries can provide university level education for free.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by infernalcradle)
    well...tbh, people shouldn't be doing useless degrees...so its a good thing

    that said, I don't believe that humanities and social sciences (the decent ones ) are useless...on the contrary, I believe that they are hugely useful to society....

    its the degrees such as pottery, christian youth work, child services etc. that should not be done and it is these degrees that people will no longer be doing....and rightly so

    Definitely, I agree (I'm doing English next year, after all). I only meant 'less useful' by contrast to something like law or medicine. They're not useless, but they're certainly less likely to pay up to 100K a year. But I agree with you, despite my apparent hostility!
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by warhol)
    Definitely, I agree (I'm doing English next year, after all). I only meant 'less useful' by contrast to something like law or medicine. They're not useless, but they're certainly less likely to pay up to 100K a year. But I agree with you, despite my apparent hostility!
    haha, didn't notice any hostility....

    I'll admit, unless you become a huge ass author, an english degree probbably won't pay 100K+ on its own....

    but I reckon if you get a 1st, do a law conversion/MBA etc....you could get into the 100K+ bracket as well
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Unvincibledudeman)
    Surely it's more convenient if the debt is written off after 15 years instead of 20?
    And that wasn't my point. My point was that if your expected lifetime earnings only increase by £40k and it costs that much or more to go to uni, the only people studying arts degrees will be the people who can afford to (as in the people with the mindset that money is a worthwhile trade for reading literature at uni, or whatever it is arts students do).
    The whole plan is ridiculous. Given that graduates should be paying higher income tax (because their earnings are supposed to be higher), why should they also have the burden of debt? It's not even necessary. Plenty of European countries can provide university level education for free.
    well yes, the government implemented that change to try and offset some of the costs from their amazing loans system
    the thing about debt being written off is a v. important point to consider IMO, because it means that thinking about whether you'll be able to "afford" to pay the debt after uni is pointless
    a) you won't have to until you can earn a certain amount anyway
    b) if you haven't paid it off after 20 years, you won't have to any more. Bam. Debt disappeared, courtesy of the government. Doesn't even affect your credit rating. Handy, eh?

    plus if people decide that uni isn't worth it, then they don't think it's worth it, simples
    given the loan system, their income isn't going to be affected
    added to that is simply having an education/enlightenment etc.
    i think more than anything it needs to be made clear all the benefits of going to uni and how minimal the costs actually are
    that's why all these protests disgust me - people just don't know the facts

    I agree that there are options other than charging higher uni fees, but this would mean massive structural changes to the way things are done here.
    one very good point that was made to me by my economics teacher is that a lot of the european countries that don't charge for uni also don't send kids to school until 7.
    that could be a possible source of funding - atm the state must be spending a vast amount on what is basically 3 years of organised play.
    i think that actually sounds like something that cameron, with all his ideas about the "big society" is likely to do - rely on the goodwill and intelligence of parents to teach their child whatever they feel is necessary until schooling kicks in, rather than send them to school for no reason (plenty of state school kids cannot read by the age of 7 anyway, a lot depends on how much attention they get out of school)
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by theths)
    well yes, the government implemented that change to try and offset some of the costs from their amazing loans system
    the thing about debt being written off is a v. important point to consider IMO, because it means that thinking about whether you'll be able to "afford" to pay the debt after uni is pointless
    a) you won't have to until you can earn a certain amount anyway
    b) if you haven't paid it off after 20 years, you won't have to any more. Bam. Debt disappeared, courtesy of the government. Doesn't even affect your credit rating. Handy, eh?

    plus if people decide that uni isn't worth it, then they don't think it's worth it, simples
    given the loan system, their income isn't going to be affected
    added to that is simply having an education/enlightenment etc.
    i think more than anything it needs to be made clear all the benefits of going to uni and how minimal the costs actually are
    that's why all these protests disgust me - people just don't know the facts

    I agree that there are options other than charging higher uni fees, but this would mean massive structural changes to the way things are done here.
    one very good point that was made to me by my economics teacher is that a lot of the european countries that don't charge for uni also don't send kids to school until 7.
    that could be a possible source of funding - atm the state must be spending a vast amount on what is basically 3 years of organised play.
    i think that actually sounds like something that cameron, with all his ideas about the "big society" is likely to do - rely on the goodwill and intelligence of parents to teach their child whatever they feel is necessary until schooling kicks in, rather than send them to school for no reason (plenty of state school kids cannot read by the age of 7 anyway, a lot depends on how much attention they get out of school)
    We complain about our fees, but compared to other countries I'd say we get it good. For example, in Singapore you need such high grades many people don't qualify; so they come to England. And with these increases, I'm sure they still will be because they actually have an opportunity to study.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Azzzzzzza)
    We complain about our fees, but compared to other countries I'd say we get it good. For example, in Singapore you need such high grades many people don't qualify; so they come to England. And with these increases, I'm sure they still will be because they actually have an opportunity to study.
    yeahh, exactly, it honestly is no different from how it was before, except people who don't realise the opportunities the government is giving them won't be doing useless degress like golf studies anymore
    which can only be a good thing, right?
    + it's way more efficient than simply "stopping" mickey mouse degrees, because who can be the judge of what a worthwhile degree is and what isn't?
    the price mechanism works wonderfully here

    and yeah, we really can't be compared to other countries when there are so many things that money is spent on which are different here from there
    so the e.g. turkish government decided that free university is their priority
    i'm such there would be equally loud screams of outrage if the UK government took away what they currently consider to be their top priority

    will people ever be satisfied?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    They have to pay it back, going to uni doesnt ensure a job, so your still left with debt that isnt being paid of, the increase puts people off, but i havent protested for 2 reason, 1 it doesnt matter, and 2 it wont affect me
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lella_m)
    A dan't knaw what yaa'ra talkang abaat. Yaa'ra nat makang mach sansa A'm afraad. Parhaps af yaa translatad ta samathang a lattla aasaar ta camprahand? That waald ba avar sa halpfal, thanks an advanca.
    Spaghatta Nadle?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    Personally, I want to study art history and go into jobs in museum curation. That would require at least an MA, so at least £60,000...

    Then I will have to work unpaid or take an internship for a year or ike five untill I can get a permenant job. A good salary for a graduate in that field is £20,000 a year. Anything higher would most likely require a PhD, accumilating more debt...

    Yes, if I take out a loan, I can afford to go. But for the rest of my life (and face it, it WILL be decades before I can pay that off) I won't be able to afford much else. No loans, no morgage with that history...

    It's not as simple as you seem to think it is. I have to decide if it's worth it. I could go to university, and no able to afford anything that requires a loan after that. Or a could get a job I don't enjoy in order to pay off the loans I recived to do that job in the first place. Personally I think it is, so I'm not complaning (yet you are, and you don't even seem to see it as a problem...). I would rather be happy and fufilled doing something I consider worthwhile with my life than get a house or a nice car.

    The fact remains though that I would be spending years in education, ultimately for a job that is poorly paid.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    OP.

    This all boils down to how prudent each student happens to be.

    A youngster with a wise head on his or her shoulders will avoid taking on any kind of debt, government sponsored or otherwise.

    Turns out the real idiots are the ones prepared to sign away whatever freedom they have left, in return for a government brainwashing program.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    I am quite sick of people going "OMG WHAT DO U MEAN IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE, IT'S A LOAN!"

    (psssst. You still have to pay that loan back!)

    When people say "I can't afford to go to uni) they mean:

    The average graduate premium (how much more a graduate earns over a non-graduate in their lifetime) is only £100,000 - therefore someone who goes to uni will earn £100,000 more than someone who doesn't go to uni.

    Well, £45,000 of that is going on tuition fees, plus interest, meaning the average graduate premium is only about £50,000. Which spread over 30 years (until you retire at 65) is only an extra £1800 a year more than I'd earn if I don't go to university = ergo university isn't really worth going to anymore.

    That's the average graduate premium, at least 50% of graduates will earn less than that.

    (Original post by infernalcradle)
    actually....quite a lot of people earn 100K+....

    consultants, IB, lawyers doctors, some engineers, some architects etc.

    others such as pharmacists etc. also come very very close
    Christ, someone's living on fantasy island!
    http://www.salarytrack.co.uk/

    The average doctor or pharmacist earns about £40,000 per annum. Nowhere near 100k.... only 10% of Doctor jobs in the Uk pay over £64k.
    Engineers, (assuming they're Chartered) earn about £50,000

    Just under 0.8% of people in the UK earn over £100,000 per annum.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Blondshavemorefun)
    Then the don't do that course, choose one that you think is worth it or get a job.
    My course is not worth more than I pay.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    People seem to have forgotten that 5 years ago the system was completely different, and people who went to uni then maybe only had to pay £1500 a year tuition, but they also had no threshold of earning before paying it back, and had 4% interest slapped on it. So they have to pay regardless of income. The system was made fairer and people complained. The country is in a massive deficit and students don't think they have to take some of the burden. I think they need to get a grip on reality, if my course had cost me 3 times what it did, I'd still have done it because it's an investment in my future. Putting aside the financial aspect, who honestly gets to do a job they are passionate about for most of their working life? If you go to uni, that's more likely to happen, so the sense of fulfilment and happiness to be doing something you really love should be reward enough.

    Also, has anyone thought that if unis are charging 2 or 3 times more, that the standard of the services they offer should increase? So you should still get what you pay for
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    If they're so stupid as to think they "can't afford it" when nothing is paid up front they don't really deserve to go really.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.