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Water Cannon at Student Demos? Conservatives Say NO... Watch

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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Nice idea of paint, I am sure people will appreciate iconic London buildings looking like a giant child's fingerpainting. I am also quite sure the painted targets will just lie down and play dead when they get hit, so that the police can arrest them 5 hours after they threw the first stone.
    Everyone knows Nelson's Column will be prettier with some colour!
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Of course its a waste of water.

    1. They use approx 250 gallons per minute so therefore that is a substantial waste of water that could be used in a better way.

    2. The cost of using them will far outweigh the cost of fixing the damage done by the minority of yobs during the protests.

    3. Again, the police fail to think about the economic repercussions.

    4. I can also see the use of water cannons leading to more violent attacks from students in retaliation. If bombs/fire bombs/guns/knives are used by the protesters in retaliation then the police only have themselves to blame for using water cannons that can break bones, blind people and cause other serious life long problems.
    1, 2 and 3. What's worse, a waste of water or dangerous rioters free to roam the streets doing damage as they wish? They aren't that expensive to run in comparison to the cost of policing the demonstrations anyway as we already has some water cannons. And I don't feel the economic repercussions are that important seeing as violent rioting causes huge amounts of damage and to justify not using an effective proven method of crowd control because it costs money means you will end up ruling out almost all policing of these events.

    4. So the police should just leave them to smash stuff and attack people? Rioting students also cause broken bones and life long problems. You can't justify the unlawful actions of an unruly mob by saying 'the police started it' when in fact it was the rioters that started it. The police don't randomly assault people (99% don't, perhaps one or two individuals have) and so if rioters refrain from doing something stupid then they won't get hurt. Simples.
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    Damn right real cannon all the way
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    (Original post by Prince Rupert)
    The irony of the Tories ruling this out when they've been consistently labelled 'right wing' by the protesting morons on here and beyond is hilarious.'Right wing' is the BNP, who exclusively attract racists, homophobes and general facists, not a mainstream political party that 1 fifth of the population voted for at the last election
    I'm afraid you are demonstrating a complete misunderstanding of what the right wing is with this post
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    Spineless Tory *******s.
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    (Original post by S129439)
    1, 2 and 3. What's worse, a waste of water or dangerous rioters free to roam the streets doing damage as they wish? They aren't that expensive to run in comparison to the cost of policing the demonstrations anyway as we already has some water cannons. And I don't feel the economic repercussions are that important seeing as violent rioting causes huge amounts of damage and to justify not using an effective proven method of crowd control because it costs money means you will end up ruling out almost all policing of these events.

    4. So the police should just leave them to smash stuff and attack people? Rioting students also cause broken bones and life long problems. You can't justify the unlawful actions of an unruly mob by saying 'the police started it' when in fact it was the rioters that started it. The police don't randomly assault people (99% don't, perhaps one or two individuals have) and so if rioters refrain from doing something stupid then they won't get hurt. Simples.
    Was you at the protest? Because there were innocent people getting hit by the police - even women and teenage girls. My friend, who is a female, has a black eye due to one policeman. I've lost all respect for them.

    They started it by kettling students.

    Just wait until the police cuts kick in and they are all jobless with no badge to hide behind.

    Karma is a *****.
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Was you at the protest? Because there were innocent people getting hit by the police - even women and teenage girls. My friend, who is a female, has a black eye due to one policeman. I've lost all respect for them.

    They started it by kettling students.

    Just wait until the police cuts kick in and they are all jobless with no badge to hide behind.

    Karma is a *****.
    That's what happens at protests. You get kettled because it's an effective method of crowd control. If you don't control a crowd you get full scale riots. Which would you prefer?

    And yeah that happens too. I don't believe for a minute that your friend was completely innocent and even if she was then you have to be responsible and sensible and move away from trouble makers. It's very easily done. Standing there shouting and swearing and refusing to move when told to will result in force. If it didn't then the police would be powerless against crowds.

    And police cuts have kicked in. Besides not many actual officers are going, it's mostly civilian jobs.

    If you have no respect for the police then don't bother calling them next time your house gets broken into or someone you know gets stabbed. After all if you hate them so much then you shouldn't have to deal with them. Karma is a *****.
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    Karma works to even the score, in the long run. There is no righteousness in the 'might makes right' attitude of police who ENJOY kettling students then rushing and clobbering them with metal batons. They won't always be healthy and strong. When those violent cops face obstacles in their lives they will become believers in the notion that karma really IS a *****. The whole problem now is that they feel invulnerable and beyond reproach. They've been suckered.
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    All the people on here slating the police, I'm sure your story would be very different if you got bottled/stabbed and they helped catch the person who did it.

    The protesters are the ones who start the violence, you expect the police to just stand there and take it? In those sorts of highly fuelled situations the police officer needs to react quickly, put yourself in that situation and try and come up with a better solution than using force. Cops are humans to, and they damn well deserve to use violence against violence.
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Of course its a waste of water.

    They use approx 250 gallons per minute so therefore that is a substantial waste of water that could be used in a better way.

    The cost of using them will far outweigh the cost of fixing the damage done by the minority of yobs during the protests.

    Again, the police fail to think about the economic repercussions.

    I can also see the use of water cannons leading to more violent attacks from students in retaliation. If bombs/fire bombs/guns/knives are used by the protesters in retaliation then the police only have themselves to blame for using water cannons that can break bones, blind people and cause other serious life long problems.
    I meant it as a joke that using it on students wasn't a waste but nevermind, I wouldn't expect you to understand.
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    (Original post by JohnC2211)
    All the people on here slating the police, I'm sure your story would be very different if you got bottled/stabbed and they helped catch the person who did it.

    The protesters are the ones who start the violence, you expect the police to just stand there and take it? In those sorts of highly fuelled situations the police officer needs to react quickly, put yourself in that situation and try and come up with a better solution than using force. Cops are humans to, and they damn well deserve to use violence against violence.
    The problem here is that we're talking about 'the cops' as a homogenous group, when they're anything but. For example, take that Met Police Commissioner who took the rap for the killing of that Brazilian immigrant on the tube.. Did the bobby-on-the-beat shoot de Menezes? Was it really Dixon of Dock Green who did that? No, of course not, it was some specialist armed plain-clothes anti-terror hitsquad under the Security Service or Special Branch who did it. Those guys probably don't even have a warrant card as their daily business isn't that of Dixon of Dock Green.

    Same with the guys doing the kettling. They are cops, sure, but most of them have level 2 riot training - they are riot specialists. MANY of those guys are ex-Forces personnel; they don't often get involved in finding the stray puppies or rescuing the stray cat in the tree.

    Regarding violence.. Suppose I,say an armoured, baton-wielding big guy, stand between you - say, a weedy vegetarian teenager - and the only available toilet, for hours on end. After 3 hours you will be argumentative, after 6 hours you will try your luck, out of sheer desperation. Then, because you're being 'violent', I smash your head in with my metal baton. And then proceed to arrest you for violent disorder, assault and criminal damage. Is your perspective on 'violence' still the same as mine in this situation? The temperature at the latest protests was between 0 and -5
    Celsius. Take that temperature, combine it with obstruction on the way to the toilet, and you have 'violence'. A totally dishonest trick by some violent maniacal 'cops'. No doubt the current Met Police Commissioner will take any and all responsibility if it secures him his knighthood. After all, that's the only thing those pompous types are interested in.
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    Water Canons can apparently cause internal damage such as damage to your spleen. So tell me is it not enough to beat the **** out of a disabled protester and bonk a guy on the head with a baton causing him to have a stroke. THEN when he arrives at hospital and then make him be in some sort of stand-off for hours on end before he finally gets treated AT ANOTHER HOSPITAL incurring in more travel and still having to wait for an Operating Theatre to be prepped , Equipment to be counted meticulously and surgeons to scrub up and do pre-surgical checks.

    If I were the doctor I would have told the Police to Sod off elsewhere and get treated. I would help the innocent protester. As Doctor in charge the hospital or at least your ward comes under your jurisdiction in this case. In effect the Doctor can call the police to get this..... remove the police. They actually can. And I would.

    Although Police do get a bit of stick and I am not generalising because I hate doing so. Some are fine enforcers of the law but others and take the show coppers for example , examples from the media and personal experiences : They need to be taken down a notch or two (quite a few of them)

    Our police men are too big for their truncheons. Remember it isn't how big it is. It's how you use it PC Plod. !

    Don't go negging me saying I hate cops because I don't. Half of my family are in the Police Forces worldwide. UK , USA and Caribbean. I respect the law and it's makers and enforcers but not the rotten ones.
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    (Original post by S129439)
    That's what happens at protests. You get kettled because it's an effective method of crowd control. If you don't control a crowd you get full scale riots. Which would you prefer?

    Kettling is proven ineffective - ask the Police Force in the USA and Germany about such an issue.

    And yeah that happens too. I don't believe for a minute that your friend was completely innocent and even if she was then you have to be responsible and sensible and move away from trouble makers. It's very easily done. Standing there shouting and swearing and refusing to move when told to will result in force. If it didn't then the police would be powerless against crowds.

    My friend was innocent and I find it funny how you think you can just move away when you are being pushed by a police line in a containment. She asked to go to the toilet and tried to get through and was struck in the face, that is severe police brutality. There is a difference between a yob and a student yet the police assumed every single student there was being violent so acted indiscriminately against them all with forcefulness and violence. I love how someone who wasn't even there is commenting on it when all they've seen is the **** spouted on the news - its like someone trying to tell me about a whole football match when they've only watched the short highlights on Match Of The Day, they don't get the full picture.

    And police cuts have kicked in. Besides not many actual officers are going, it's mostly civilian jobs.

    Yes they have kicked in but no where near as bad as they will, just you wait and see. I hope the territorial army treat the police the same way the police have treated students.


    If you have no respect for the police then don't bother calling them next time your house gets broken into or someone you know gets stabbed. After all if you hate them so much then you shouldn't have to deal with them. Karma is a *****.

    I wouldn't phone them anyway. 9/10 they can't do anything anyway and its far more effective to have a dog in the kitchen to defend my property than it is to reply on the so called public service we call the 'police'. The police are far more interested in boosting their quota in speeding tickets and fines so they can get rewards for meeting targets at the end of each month. Do you really think I would trust the police? Anyone who does in this day and age is extremely naive. Its far more effective to defend yourself in this day and age and even if you do so you face prosecution by the police force and legal system for protecting your property, as you have to use what is deemed reasonable force. Well if the police did their jobs properly then criminals wouldn't be wandering the streets trying to break into properties would they? There is hardly a community police presence and the majority of the police you do see are in police cars trying to combat car crime and get rewards. The majority of criminals are drug addicts anyway that the police have let off with the oh so scary 'caution'. The police must be mentally retarded if they think a 'caution' is going to deter them from committing crimes for their next fix. They don't live in the real world - if someone broke into my home I'd do whatever to stop them stealing something, even if that meant killing them. At the end of the day, that criminal is showing me no respect by breaking into my home and trying to steal things I've worked for so why should I respect him?

    I also know someone who was stabbed - what happened? Nothing because the police haven't a clue. The force and system are so **** that even with a confession they can't put the perpetrator in prison as there is no evidence.

    :facepalm:

    the ******* admitted it. What more evidence do you need Sherlock '****' Holmes?

    The police in the UK are nothing more than uneducated power driven thugs who think they are above the law due to having a special badge. That sums them up. The entry requirements are a joke and I did harder Key Stage 3 tests in school.

    I'll never ever in my life ask for help from the police - Its easier to do it myself and I'll do a far more reliable job - that's why I have CCTV on my house - 2 Doberman pinchers' ready to own any criminals and other defensive weapons.

    I actually find it funny that some people still trust police. Never ever see police walking about, maybe if they did then people would realise there was more of a police presence and it would deter crime yet they are always in cars being fat, lazy and unfit and waiting for the next speeding ticket to issue.
    They should tackle real crime.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Nice idea of paint, I am sure people will appreciate iconic London buildings looking like a giant child's fingerpainting. I am also quite sure the painted targets will just lie down and play dead when they get hit, so that the police can arrest them 5 hours after they threw the first stone.
    paint is a proven method in other parts of the world - they could easily arrest those marked later on whilst slowly filtering people out of the contained area.
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Kettling is proven ineffective - ask the Police Force in the USA and Germany about such an issue.

    It's not ineffective because it's quite obviously working at these protests. The levels of violence are down on what they could be.


    My friend was innocent and I find it funny how you think you can just move away when you are being pushed by a police line in a containment. She asked to go to the toilet and tried to get through and was struck in the face, that is severe police brutality. There is a difference between a yob and a student yet the police assumed every single student there was being violent so acted indiscriminately against them all with forcefulness and violence. I love how someone who wasn't even there is commenting on it when all they've seen is the **** spouted on the news - its like someone trying to tell me about a whole football match when they've only watched the short highlights on Match Of The Day, they don't get the full picture.

    Actually i asked my step-dad who has been policing riots and many worse ones before it for decades. So shut up. I have both friends who have been in protests and family members policing them so the only person who is speaking as if they know the whole picture when really they only know one side of it is you.

    Yes they have kicked in but no where near as bad as they will, just you wait and see. I hope the territorial army treat the police the same way the police have treated students.

    LOL! You can hope if you want but that isn't going to happen. And 'you just wait and see' is such a weak argument because it relies on future knowledge. Get a grip.

    I wouldn't phone them anyway. 9/10 they can't do anything anyway and its far more effective to have a dog in the kitchen to defend my property than it is to reply on the so called public service we call the 'police'. 1. The police are far more interested in boosting their quota in speeding tickets and fines so they can get rewards for meeting targets at the end of each month. Do you really think I would trust the police? Anyone who does in this day and age is extremely naive. Its far more effective to defend yourself in this day and age and even if you do so you face prosecution by the police force and legal system for protecting your property, 2. as you have to use what is deemed reasonable force. 3. Well if the police did their jobs properly then criminals wouldn't be wandering the streets trying to break into properties would they? 4. There is hardly a community police presence and the majority of the police you do see are in police cars trying to combat car crime and get rewards. 5. The majority of criminals are drug addicts anyway that the police have let off with the oh so scary 'caution'. The police must be mentally retarded if they think a 'caution' is going to deter them from committing crimes for their next fix. 6. They don't live in the real world - if someone broke into my home I'd do whatever to stop them stealing something, even if that meant killing them. At the end of the day, that criminal is showing me no respect by breaking into my home and trying to steal things I've worked for so why should I respect him?

    1. Quota's were introduced by Labour and are awful measures of policing. For example where I live in the country there is like one murder a year, so if there is 2 next year then murders are up 100%. Targets and quotas are BS and nobody likes them other than useless Labour MP's who have no idea about policing.

    2. What's wrong with 'reasonable force'? It's completely logical. If someone shouts at you then you can't just shoot them. But if they pull a knife and try and run at you then you could shoot them. If you allow people to do whatever they want to intruders then people could start justifying murders with 'oh he was in my house so I shot him in the head'. The term 'reasonable' is used to ensure nobody goes overboard with home protection and the UK doesn't end up like the USA where everyone has a shotgun under the bed and a pistol in the drawer.

    3. LOL! So the police are responsible for crime? What the hell man. If the police weren't around then crime would go up. Simple. You can't accuse the police of not doing their job properly just because some crime exists. Crime has existed since before Christ.

    4. There is plenty of community policing, namely COMMUNITY support officers and local policing teams of which their are numerous. The Conservatives are going to get more police officers on the street by abolishing quota's and stupid levels of paperwork. Admittedly with the cuts this will take time but expect that to be solved soon.

    5. There will always be drug addicts. If someone with a previous caution for possession is cautioned again then it gets more serious. You seem to think that drug addicts can roam freely with drugs and never get arrested or go to court. If they are let of for it then that isn't necessarily the police's fault because it's often up to the magistrate/judge to decide upon a sentence.

    6. I don't respect criminals. Neither do the police. Hence why they arrest them. And as said in point 1., if you use reasonable force to defend yourself then you can kill someone. Furthermore the police DO live in the real world. It's stupid people sat behind a screen who want to have a go at the establishment about things they don't understand who have never been the target of thousands of protestors who 'don't live in the real world'. Trust me of all the police officers I've met, they all have a reasonable head on their shoulders. I know that doesn't account for all and there are undoubtedly cases of police abusing their power or doing something dangerous but you can't criticise all of them.


    I also know someone who was stabbed - what happened? Nothing because the police haven't a clue. The force and system are so **** that even with a confession they can't put the perpetrator in prison as there is no evidence.

    99.9% of the time a confession will result in a conviction. If someone confesses wholly you don't need evidence as there cannot legally be a defence. You might be looking at one example when it hasn't gone right compared to all the times it has. Besides that's more likely a failing on the behalf of the judiciary.

    the ******* admitted it. What more evidence do you need Sherlock '****' Holmes?

    What are you on about?

    The police in the UK are nothing more than uneducated power driven thugs who think they are above the law due to having a special badge. That sums them up. The entry requirements are a joke and I did harder Key Stage 3 tests in school.

    LOL!. The two year apprenticeship is worth a foundation degree so it isn't as easy as a Key stage 3 test. And the majority of police officers have A-levels or degrees. Because the police rarely recruit below 19 so people go to uni to fill the time before joining and the police prefer to hire educated people. And no 'uneducated power driven thug' could pass the conditioning and personal assessments. Those kind of people are weeded out.

    I'll never ever in my life ask for help from the police - Its easier to do it myself and I'll do a far more reliable job - that's why I have CCTV on my house - 2 Doberman pinchers' ready to own any criminals and other defensive weapons.

    Good for you. I hope anyone who breaks into your house regrets it. Much cheaper on the tax payer as well, because like it or not your taxes fund the police and so if you refuse to use the service that benefits the rest of society so thanks

    I actually find it funny that some people still trust police. Never ever see police walking about, maybe if they did then people would realise there was more of a police presence and it would deter crime yet they are always in cars being fat, lazy and unfit and waiting for the next speeding ticket to issue.

    They should tackle real crime.

    You need to live in the real world mate. REAL policing isn't about running round after murderers and 100MPH police chases. You just complained about the lack of community policing and now say that most police are on the street! Make up your mind! And speeding is real crime. It kills thousands of people a year. You would feel differently if you knew someone hit by a car.
    Your whole argument is one MASSIVE bigoted uninformed fail. The majority of this should be directed at the government.
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    I would prefer rubber bullets and tear gas than a water cannon to be honest for most of the protesters it'll be their first shower in about a month!
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    What I'm saying is instead of wasting a resource like water which could be used to keep OAP's homes warm they should just use a bit of common sense - its obvious that they should just use paintball guns to shoot yobs.

    Then those covered in paint are obviously the ones they should arrest later on, or those who have stripped off to get the paint off them.

    These can be fired directly at the culprits whilst also making London more colourful.

    Its only painful, less likely to hit yobs in the face and cause serious issues as its a precision used weapon and the pain aspect alone will deter rioters, never mind the prospect of being arrested later if covered if marked.

    Pepperball rounds
    Pepper-spray projectiles, commonly called pepperballs[2], are direct-fire paintball-like capsules filled with a pepper spray solution of capsaicin. They provide a longer range, more user-friendly way to disperse pepper spray. Many sorts can be fired from paintball markers. Other sorts are designed to be fired from specially-designed pepperball guns whose muzzle velocity is greater than a paintball marker: if the velocity is not high enough the projectile will not break. As a paintball impact is mildly painful, it can discourage rioters by itself, but the pepper spray incapacitates and discourages a larger number of rioters with each shot.
    That... is actually a good idea. Then the police would know who to arrest, so they may not need to kettle them anymore. Well done
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    They're not jammed up like sardines.
    Try being in a kettle
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    (Original post by Prince Rupert)
    students who think the world owes them a living
    It doesn't seem to me that the students who oppose the fee rises think the world owes them a living. Many feel that the increase is too steep and the long term effects of the reforms have not been thought through and some are not convinced that the reforms are more progressive than the current system or will reduce the deficit.

    Even some conservative MPs stated that the fee increases could have been introduced more gradually.

    State funded university education is an investment and would improve the economy.
    Benefit scroungers do not.
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    (Original post by The_Male_Melons)
    Agreed. Water is a waste. Instead the police should throw dictionaries, books, and encyclopaedias at the rioters. So that they know instead of wasting time on a riot that they can put that time to studying.
    Funny you say that. Some students made giant foam shields as 'books' with titles e.g. Brave New World and used these to protect themselves from police
 
 
 
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