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Why are people so ignorant about suicide and depression? Watch

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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Aren't you a self proclaimed right wing Thatcherite? :hmm:

    Pot calling the kettle black....
    Being a Thatcherite doesn't make me heartless and ignorant.
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    To be fair, most people get depression from being utter pussys and crying that they do not have a girlfriend or a really big house or something equally pathetic. This then leads to the chemical imbalance etc. It is very rare that the person is born with this problem.
    Of course when it is with children it is different because children are more emotionally vulnerable due to their age, but for older folk - grow a pair, it could be far far worse.
    well. this is a huge generalisation.


    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    He was actually referring to the common trend in rap culture, where the black rapper will go to a club and be surrounded by white / mixed-race girls.
    If he had said, "Go down to a club, all the girls that are white caucasian there will be all over you, since all white causasian girls are total whores." then you'd be justified. This wasn't like that, it was obviously a joke.
    TBF, that was a pretty bad example to use if you wasn't to show up the OP as thin-skinned. That guy was an actual ****, he posted a few times...read the rest of his posts on that thread.
    Unless of course, he was a massive troll.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    A lack of serotonin, and in some cases, dopamine (but that depends on the specific case).
    So why don't patients with sepiapterin reductase deficiency typically show depressive symptoms? They barely produce any serotonin!

    Why is it that typtophan depletion doesn't cause depression in most individuals?

    Why is it that SSRE (Re-uptake enhancers) can alleviate depression?

    You also describe different etiologies of depression depending on which neurotransmitter is 'deficient'.. So why is it that in rotatory clinical trials (in which patients go through a range of different anti-dep drugs which target all of the major suspect NTs) that one patient can respond to numerous different NT-targetting drugs? In addition, why is it that this selective response can change within the same patient?

    Contrary to popular belief, the chemical imbalance theory does not stand up well against empirical evidence. The phrase itself originates from pharmaceutical advertising in the US, who have since been forced to remove it from their adverts (pharma TV advertising is legal in the USA) because it was considered to be so misleading.
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    So why don't patients with sepiapterin reductase deficiency typically show depressive symptoms? They barely produce any serotonin!

    Why is it that typtophan depletion doesn't cause depression in most individuals?

    Why is it that SSRE (Re-uptake enhancers) can alleviate depression?

    You also describe different etiologies of depression depending on which neurotransmitter is 'deficient'.. So why is it that in rotatory clinical trials (in which patients go through a range of different anti-dep drugs which target all of the major suspect NTs) why is it that one patient can respond to numerous different NT-targetting drugs? In addition, why is it that this selective response can change within the same patient?
    Because not enough is known about it and different treatments respond differently in different people.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Because not enough is known about it and different treatments respond differently in different people.
    So you can't answer any of my questions then?

    So why are you pushing it as a confirmed and established fact?
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    So you can't answer any of my questions then?

    So why are you pushing it as a confirmed and established fact?
    I've answered it. I've never claimed doctors know everything about depression. You can't dispute a chemical imbalance is a factor though.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    You can't dispute a chemical imbalance is a factor though.
    What? I just did. I just cited to you multiple areas of research which actively contradict the serotonin deficiency hypothesis.

    Sorry, but I find it incredibly ironic that you've made a thread about the ignorance surrounding depression and you come out with speil that is considered to be laughable in the scientific community.
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    As a culture we are ignorant and dismissive of the inner levels of reality. I mean that we tend to prize outer appearances over any inner experience.

    "Depression" is basically the normal reaction of a certain type of person (introvert, HSP, whatever other label you want) to the horror, madness and intense pain of being alive. Our society doesn't have much respect for these kinds of "pussies", oh I mean "personalities".

    Depression is not an illness, it is a label. As such, the whole concept tends to get in the way of a meaningful debate.

    The following link is probably too much information for those who aren't really interested in finding out the whys and wherefores:

    http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk...learning-path/

    Anyway, the positive thing to take from the research going on in behaviour science and evolutionary biology, etc. etc., is that of course it is possible to change one's way of thinking and dealing with life to improve one's state of mind. Labelling it or trying to reduce it down to a physical "illness" is at best plain wrong and at worst, keeps people trapped in intense and needless agony.

    Just my two cents.

    KG
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    To be fair, most people get depression from being utter pussys and crying that they do not have a girlfriend or a really big house or something equally pathetic. This then leads to the chemical imbalance etc. It is very rare that the person is born with this problem.
    Of course when it is with children it is different because children are more emotionally vulnerable due to their age, but for older folk - grow a pair, it could be far far worse.
    How do you therefore explain the people that have a big house, success, family, everything you mentioned and more?
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    I agree and I think it is a chemical imbalance which could be hereditary or caused by the environment. As has been said it usually is related to dopamine and serotonin. But there are so many other factors hence why different treatments work for different people. Same with ADHD, general anxiety, social anxiety etc. For example, more dopamine dramatically reduces ADHD symptoms in almost every one. Those with social anxiety a have low D2 receptor (A specific dopamine receptor) density. SSRI's usually significantly help those with depression, but sometimes MAOI's etc are needed because of other factors. It is pretty obvious that the brain is one big chemical mess and there is an imbalance for those with various disorders.
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    (Original post by kratos90)
    I agree and I think it is a chemical imbalance which could be hereditary or caused by the environment. As has been said it usually is related to dopamine and serotonin. But there are so many other factors hence why different treatments work for different people. Same with ADHD, general anxiety, social anxiety etc. For example, more dopamine dramatically reduces ADHD symptoms in almost every one. Those with social anxiety a have low D2 receptor (A specific dopamine receptor) density. SSRI's usually significantly help those with depression, but sometimes MAOI's etc are needed because of other factors. It is pretty obvious that the brain is one big chemical mess and there is an imbalance for those with various disorders.
    Aspirin reduces my headache. Does that mean headaches are caused by a lack of aspirin?
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    When things go wrong in life you're name is often affected, a recent example is Mark Madoff [son of the Ponzi Bernie Madoff]. Even though Mark Madoff made his living from a genuine company he still felt that he couldn't have pride in his name and family history. Sadly, if your name has a bad reputation then for some people life is too much to bare.
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    Aspirin reduces my headache. Does that mean headaches are caused by a lack of aspirin?
    That is a weak weak argument. You have pretty much contradicted yourself already by saying SSRE's help alleviate depression. Yes, they are the opposite of what is usually used but you are changing the chemical balance of your brain i.e reducing serotonin. This is effectively saying there was an imbalance before and you are correcting the chemical imbalance albeit in an unconventional way. Then you go on to reject a theory about imbalance. Laughable.
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    What? I just did. I just cited to you multiple areas of research which actively contradict the serotonin deficiency hypothesis.

    Sorry, but I find it incredibly ironic that you've made a thread about the ignorance surrounding depression and you come out with speil that is considered to be laughable in the scientific community.
    No you didn't dispute that it was due to a chemical imbalance whatsoever. You disputed that depression was due to low serotonin which noone has disagreed with. As has already been said there re many other factors.
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    (Original post by AshleyT)
    Step-dad who moaps and sulks around the house all day. Moaning moaning, moaning and doing nothing about the things he's moaning about....When HE has the power to change them.
    Exactly the same as my brother

    I think there are two types of depressed people - Those who are genuinely depressed and then people who aren't genuinely depressed and constantly threaten suicide as a way of attention seeking/emotionally blackmailing people, my brother is the latter. I feel like I'm living his bloody life for him sometimes, sucks. I genuinely feel sorry for both though.
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    (Original post by kratos90)
    That is a weak weak argument. You have pretty much contradicted yourself already by saying SSRE's help alleviate depression. Yes, they are the opposite of what is usually used but you are changing the chemical balance of your brain i.e reducing serotonin. This is effectively saying there was an imbalance before and you are correcting the chemical imbalance albeit in an unconventional way. Then you go on to reject a theory about imbalance. Laughable.
    I haven't contradicted myself at all. I have simply sought to dispute the claim that "Depression = lack of serotonin" by stating drugs which work to reduce the longevity of serotonin in the synaptic cleft can alleviate depression. This is counter-evidence.

    What is this balance you speak of? What are the opposing forces? Where are they? How does the medication correct any imbalances?
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    A lack of serotonin, and in some cases, dopamine (but that depends on the specific case).
    Serotonin is only currently thought to be one of the causes of depression, as SSRI antidepressants only have a slighter better success rate than placebo, and if it was a predominantly serotonin-based illness, they would have a far greater success rate.
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    I haven't contradicted myself at all. I have simply sought to dispute the claim that "Depression = lack of serotonin" by stating drugs which work to reduce the longevity of serotonin in the synaptic cleft can alleviate depression. This is counter-evidence.

    What is this balance you speak of? What are the opposing forces? Where are they? How does the medication correct any imbalances?
    It is not counter-evidence in any way, shape or form. It is evidence that SSRE's will alleviate depression in some people. Nothing more and nothing less. Just as there is evidence that SSRI's will aleviate depression in some people. Why? We don't know. Dopamine, Noradrenaline, GABA, glutamate... (the list goes on and on) all play a part in mood, anxiety etc. as well as receptor densities etc. You have already stated one way in which medictions correct imbalances. SSRE's reduce serotonin. That corrects an imbalance for some people but not most. I see not logic in your arguments.
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    (Original post by AshleyT)
    Because there's a lot of depressed people who just moan and moan and moan and moan and moan and moan and moan and moan

    About the most trivial things... And use depression as an excuse? There's lots of people who say they are depressed & are going to commit suicide as a way of attention seeking (though i aim this less at people who are actually depressed because I know unfortunately that there's a large portion who also suffer in silence and really hide their sorrow).

    IDK, my Mum & step-dad both suffer depression. My mum tries to get on with it although will have the occasional day where she just cant and goes really suicidally down. Generally she tries to look on the bright side of things though etc.

    Vs

    Step-dad who moaps and sulks around the house all day. Moaning moaning, moaning and doing nothing about the things he's moaning about....When HE has the power to change them.

    Mum has tried suicide a few times, step-dad has not.

    But in general....idk....i'm just throwing things around :P

    EDIT: In general though people need to not be dicks on the internet - because you never know who is a real case, truely seeking help, and **** comments can really push them over that line.
    I may get flamed for this and i don't care. Those who claim to be depressed and moan and moan and moan and moan about it, i don't believe are really depressed, those who are really depressed, who have been medically diagnosed and had treatment for depression (like myself and my best friend) are actually really good at hiding it, for the most part they don't want people to know hence why so many depressed people go without treatment for so long.
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    I haven't contradicted myself at all. I have simply sought to dispute the claim that "Depression = lack of serotonin" by stating drugs which work to reduce the longevity of serotonin in the synaptic cleft can alleviate depression. This is counter-evidence.

    What is this balance you speak of? What are the opposing forces? Where are they? How does the medication correct any imbalances?
    LOL, why do you always argue over the smallest things and care so much about it, and believe people actually care? Do you enjoy wasting your time like that?

    I can imagine you getting annoyed behind your computer and being like GRRR HE SAID CHEMICALS ARE BALANCED AND THEY AREN'T GRRRRR and asserting your superiority over him as I mean come on this is just general knowledge, not like you learn it on a degree course or something is it..:rolleyes:
 
 
 
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