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The truth about the student protests... Watch

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    (Original post by Smiling...Rain)
    There was also a less biased report, where the wheelchair user in question was actually being used as a weapon (battering ram) just before this picture was taken, by his brother.
    If you've ever been rammed with the steel frame on a wheelchair, it is a force not to be reckoned with...

    A lot (NOT ALL) of these students are just protesting for the sake of protesting.
    Ah, I didn't see this. I'd like to check it out, do you have a link? That'd be great.
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      (Original post by Smiling...Rain)
      There was also a less biased report,
      Your following account is hardly "less biased"

      where the wheelchair user in question was actually being used as a weapon (battering ram) just before this picture was taken, by his brother.
      If you've ever been rammed with the steel frame on a wheelchair, it is a force not to be reckoned with...
      Why then, one wonders, didn't the police remonstrate with the one allegedly ramming the wheelchair and using it as a "weapon" instead of pulling the hapless cerebral palsy sufferer out of the wheelchair and dragging him along the road? Doesn't ring true at all, I'm afraid. :rolleyes:

      A lot (NOT ALL) of these students are just protesting for the sake of protesting.
      In a democracy we have the right to protest and no one has the right to question that right...or determine what is in the minds of those doing the protesting. Your comment is not only fatuous but also meaningless, imo.
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        (Original post by joni_richardson)
        Ah, I didn't see this. I'd like to check it out, do you have a link? That'd be great.
        You're very patient...and polite.
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        (Original post by yawn)
        Your following account is hardly "less biased"



        Why then, one wonders, didn't the police remonstrate with the one allegedly ramming the wheelchair and using it as a "weapon" instead of pulling the hapless cerebral palsy sufferer out of the wheelchair and dragging him along the road? Doesn't ring true at all, I'm afraid. :rolleyes:



        In a democracy we have the right to protest and no one has the right to question that right...or determine what is in the minds of those doing the protesting. Your comment is not only fatuous but also meaningless, imo.


        You think defacing statues of some of the the greatest men to ever live with one's urine is acceptable too?

        As per usual the media jump on one account of police violence, whereas the students were totally unnecessarily violent on far more occasions.

        Maybe if they concentrated on getting a decent degree and fighting the albeit pretty corrupt system with an educated point of view, some good may be done instead of this mindless rubbish.

        Oh and day we last had true freedom of sppech was quite a while ago.
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        (Original post by joni_richardson)
        I'm not saying the BBC are biased in general. Hell, I'm not saying the BBC itself are biased at all. Ben Brown's handling of the debates about the fees has been pretty poor though; don't know if you saw last Thursday's News 24? It was on in the background at mine pretty much all day and Ben Brown was pretty terrible about the whole thing.

        I didn't have any issues with the BBC until then, so it's not like I'm just saying these things because that's how I've always felt, I just think some of the journalists' ways of dealing with these issues has been pretty poor.
        I don't think Ben Brown's handling has been poor. Your implying that he was biased. He was playing "devil advocate". What do you want him to do? Say well done and pat Jody on the back. Jody was provided the opportunity to tell his story. He did so. I agree the police tactics was excessive and severe. Ben Brown highlighted that Jody did describe himself as a revolutionist. Ben Brown expanded on that point in order to get some answers. It was in no way biased at all.
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        (Original post by joni_richardson)
        I'm not saying that none of the protesters were in the wrong, but the majority of them were abiding by the rules. Looking over reports from the BBC displays a strong bias towards the police (which, it could be argued, is fair enough) but they've also interviewed students with a scepticism to almost everything the students are saying.

        The BBC are not the most unbiased corporation in the world. And I've watched Fox News with repulsion enough thanks.

        I assume you didn't watch BBC News 24 on Thursday?
        I'll also make the crazy assumption that you weren't actually at the protests and were not able to compare the actual situation with the reports from the BBC on it.
        I was at the protest
        You are right about what you say about the police. Some of the things they were saying to protesters was terrible. However a lot of the policeman were really decent as well. E.g. when they tried to kettle us in, this one policeman opened a gate and let a few of us out from a side exit. So i suppose just like some protestors were bad, some police were bad as well.
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          (Original post by Smiling...Rain)
          You think defacing statues of some of the the greatest men to ever live with one's urine is acceptable too?
          It's only a statue for heaven's sake...it's not as though Churchill himself (and many people would disagree that he was one of the greatest men to ever live anyway) was pissed on.

          As per usual the media jump on one account of police violence, whereas the students were totally unnecessarily violent on far more occasions.
          It certainly makes a change for the media to highlight police violence, and besides, the ensuing interviewing of both the police spokespeople and the victim was very uneven-handed as witnessed by videoed interviews on BBC in particular.

          Maybe if they concentrated on getting a decent degree and fighting the albeit pretty corrupt system with an educated point of view, some good may be done instead of this mindless rubbish.
          The protesters come from all sorts of situations. Some are graduates already and are attempting to fight a corrupt symstem with a well-educated argument. Others are already in the uni system and are protesting on behalf of those who follow them...and the poor old current lower 6th formers are those who are facing the swingeing increases that may very well affect their opportunity to access Higher Education. Repayment after graduation is no better than before graduation. Regardless, you still have the debt, and in the case of those starting uni in 2012, they'll have debts of three times those who enter in 2011.

          That's the whole point and that's the reason for the protests, especially since savings could be made in other areas as pointed out on other relevant threads.

          There is palpable anger that not only have those in power reneged on election promises - promises, that because they were instrumental in getting a party into power, should not be broken - but also the increases which will undoubtedly have a far greater impact on the less well off than the much wealthier, are seen as a tool of social engineering.
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            (Original post by The_Male_Melons)
            I don't think Ben Brown's handling has been poor. Your implying that he was biased. He was playing "devil advocate". What do you want him to do? Say well done and pat Jody on the back. Jody was provided the opportunity to tell his story. He did so. I agree the police tactics was excessive and severe. Ben Brown highlighted that Jody did describe himself as a revolutionist. Ben Brown expanded on that point in order to get some answers. It was in no way biased at all.
            Ben Brown should have then interviewed those who give the police on the front line their orders, and played 'Devil's Advocate' with them too...for the sake of balance.

            Why didn't he? I'll tell you why? Because the perpetrators of the violence meted out to the 'cripple' are totally unaccountable...and in a democratic society, that is against all natural justice.
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            (Original post by yawn)
            Ben Brown should have then interviewed those who give the police on the front line their orders, and played 'Devil's Advocate' with them too...for the sake of balance.

            Why didn't he? I'll tell you why? Because the perpetrators of the violence meted out to the 'cripple' are totally unaccountable...and in a democratic society, that is against all natural justice.
            How is it totally unaccountable? There is clearly another side to the story or he would have complained to the IPCC straight away. Why did he need to consider his options if it was such a clear cut case?
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              (Original post by Aj12)
              How is it totally unaccountable?
              It's totally unaccountable because we know the identity of the victim, but not of the perpetrators.


              There is clearly another side to the story or he would have complained to the IPCC straight away. Why did he need to consider his options if it was such a clear cut case?
              For heaven's sake. Why would you assume that because one does not act in a knee jerk action, but rather considers their options including legal advice before taking further action, that there is some sort of weakness in his case...a case where he was wrenched out of his wheelchair and dragged along the ground like a sack of potatoes in a most undignified manner?

              Not only was the action directed against him cruel, but displayed a lack of humanity on the part of the perpetrators, self-demeaning them to lower levels of animal behavioural instincts of a rabid pack. There is no mitigation.

              You might enjoy watching such violence...I certainly don't.
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              (Original post by yawn)
              It's totally unaccountable because we know the identity of the victim, but not of the perpetrators.




              For heaven's sake. Why would you assume that because one does not act in a knee jerk action, but rather considers their options including legal advice before taking further action, that there is some sort of weakness in his case...a case where he was wrenched out of his wheelchair and dragged along the ground like a sack of potatoes in a most undignified manner?

              Not only was the action directed against him cruel, but displayed a lack of humanity on the part of the perpetrators, self-demeaning them to lower levels of animal behavioural instincts of a rabid pack. There is no mitigation.

              You might enjoy watching such violence...I certainly don't.
              When was the interview. 3 or 4 days after the incident? Most people would ether complain that day or the day after. Considering his options? What bloody options? Why does he need legal advice> Its a complaint to the IPCC not a criminal case.

              Anyway your making your judgments on a 2 miniute video. And no doubt if the IPCC does not find in his favor you will assume that they are wrong and protecting the police.
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              What happened to the guy that killed Ian? Or Blair Peach, for that matter.
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                (Original post by Aj12)
                When was the interview. 3 or 4 days after the incident? Most people would ether complain that day or the day after. Considering his options? What bloody options? Why does he need legal advice> Its a complaint to the IPCC not a criminal case.
                You cannot get inside his head and make him act according to how you think he should act. He's one clever dude, and is obviously building up a stronger case with considered thought.

                Anyway your making your judgments on a 2 miniute video. And no doubt if the IPCC does not find in his favor you will assume that they are wrong and protecting the police.
                We've all seen acts of violence perpetrated by the police on innocent victims in recent years...and we've all seen them get away with it. Doesn't give us much cause to have 'faith' in the system, does it?

                My judgement on the Jody McIntyre case was made on a video that clearly recorded the sequence of events. There is no doubt...unless one is blind and can't see what was done...that the victim was wrenched out of a wheelchair and dragged along the ground. That is all that matters, not asides on hypotheticals.

                Additionally, I have seen many other actions of unwarranted violence perpetrated by the police on students which have sickened me to the stomach and left me bereft of any confidence that they will resist from betraying the position of trust that is incumbent on them.

                Gosh! I've just looked out of the window and there's a real blizzard blowing heavy snow everywhere...and I'm supposed to be going on a short holiday tomorrow.:eek:

                Anyway, I'm done with debating for the meantime as I have to decorate our family's two Christmas trees before I go. Thanks for the chat.
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                (Original post by yawn)
                Ben Brown should have then interviewed those who give the police on the front line their orders, and played 'Devil's Advocate' with them too...for the sake of balance.

                Why didn't he? I'll tell you why? Because the perpetrators of the violence meted out to the 'cripple' are totally unaccountable...and in a democratic society, that is against all natural justice.
                The BBC have interviewed the police and played "devil's advocate". There is a balance.

                I agree the force used against Jody was excessive.

                Ben Brown has no say on who is interviewing or the guests. The people on top of him do.

                The thing is your forgetting in a democratic society, that the BBC's role as the fourth estate is to challenge both sides. The BBC has challenged the police. The same BBC has also challenged Jody on the protest and looked at it from the police perspective. Ben is not there to praise Jody in anyway. At the end of the day, Jody has been provided the opportunity to tell his side on the BBC.

                In this instance, I do not see any bias from the BBC or even any "bad handling".
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                  (Original post by channy)
                  What happened to the guy that killed Ian? Or Blair Peach, for that matter.
                  Nothing...
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                    (Original post by The_Male_Melons)
                    The BBC have interviewed the police and played "devil's advocate". There is a balance.

                    I agree the force used against Jody was excessive.

                    Ben Brown has no say on who is interviewing or the guests. The people on top of him do.

                    The thing is your forgetting in a democratic society, that the BBC's role as the fourth estate is to challenge both sides. The BBC has challenged the police. The same BBC has also challenged Jody on the protest and looked at it from the police perspective. Ben is not there to praise Jody in anyway. At the end of the day, Jody has been provided the opportunity to tell his side on the BBC.

                    In this instance, I do not see any bias from the BBC or even any "bad handling".
                    The BBC have interviewed Police spokespeople, but they have never challenged what they have said. Rather, they just gave them the opportunity to spin the truth.

                    I'm sorry folks, but I really have to go for now. Bye :ciao:
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                    a lot of the students seem perplexed by the heavy handed policing that they.

                    I think Millbank is the perfect example of what happens when a 'peaceful' protest is lightly policed.

                    Whilst the majority of the students were peaceful, the police had no choice but to be a bit more forceful.
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                    (Original post by yawn)
                    You cannot get inside his head and make him act according to how you think he should act. He's one clever dude, and is obviously building up a stronger case with considered thought.



                    We've all seen acts of violence perpetrated by the police on innocent victims in recent years...and we've all seen them get away with it. Doesn't give us much cause to have 'faith' in the system, does it?

                    My judgement on the Jody McIntyre case was made on a video that clearly recorded the sequence of events. There is no doubt...unless one is blind and can't see what was done...that the victim was wrenched out of a wheelchair and dragged along the ground. That is all that matters, not asides on hypotheticals.

                    Additionally, I have seen many other actions of unwarranted violence perpetrated by the police on students which have sickened me to the stomach and left me bereft of any confidence that they will resist from betraying the position of trust that is incumbent on them.

                    Gosh! I've just looked out of the window and there's a real blizzard blowing heavy snow everywhere...and I'm supposed to be going on a short holiday tomorrow.:eek:

                    Anyway, I'm done with debating for the meantime as I have to decorate our family's two Christmas trees before I go. Thanks for the chat.

                    Showing him being pulled out of his wheelchair is a reaction. There must be a cause. The officer clearly over reacted but what happened in say the half hour before that video was shot will be crucial.

                    Also your judgments of this case are clearly prejudiced by other police actions that have nothng to do with this case.

                    Have fun with decorating your tree.
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                    (Original post by yawn)
                    The BBC have interviewed Police spokespeople, but they have never challenged what they have said. Rather, they just gave them the opportunity to spin the truth.

                    I'm sorry folks, but I really have to go for now. Bye
                    You watched the 24 hours new channel all day, plus the political programmes on BBC 1, 2 3, and 4, bbc parliament, bbc red button, CBBC (newsround could have done a bit of challenging), BBC radio 2, 4 and local radio stations as well as BBC online as well...
                    and came to the conclusion that BBC just interviewed and not questioned the police.

                    How many television sets do you own? More to the point, you must spent a lot on freeview boxes? How many radio sets do you own? You must be running lots of tabs on internet explorer on that wee laptop.
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                    (Original post by yawn)
                    Nothing...
                    Exactly.

                    And what's going to happen to the man who bashed Alfie's brains out?
                   
                   
                   
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