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Who do we owe all this money to?! Watch

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    (Original post by Huskaris)
    Why would we not be? :-S
    So are you saying that a couple of bankers and private sector people hold the billions of pounds worth of bonds?
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    (Original post by CoffeeStinks)
    So are you saying that a couple of bankers and private sector people hold the billions of pounds worth of bonds?
    No... Im saying millions of bankers and millions of private sector people hold the billions of pounds worth of bonds....
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    (Original post by Huskaris)
    No... Im saying millions of bankers and millions of private sector people hold the billions of pounds worth of bonds....
    Ok
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    (Original post by CoffeeStinks)
    So the government will be fully aware of this and allow it to create propaganda. If the government wanted to redistribute the money around then they would. They chose not to so that they have an excuse to put forth their proposals and make it seem in the interest of the government.
    What?

    I hate to be rude but are you really stupid or something?
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    (Original post by Huskaris)
    What?

    I hate to be rude but are you really stupid or something?
    Millions of bankers own the bonds.
    Government say that they need to pay back the money that the country owe.
    So they mean they need to pay back the money to the millions of bankers who now hold the bonds.
    While saying that it was the bankers who lost the money.
    Do you not see anything suspicious about that?

    And to answer your question, no.
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    (Original post by CoffeeStinks)
    Millions of bankers own the bonds.
    Government say that they need to pay back the money that the country owe.
    So they mean they need to pay back the money to the millions of bankers who now hold the bonds.
    While saying that it was the bankers who lost the money.
    Do you not see anything suspicious about that?

    And to answer your question, no.
    Person A gives bank £100k. Bank then gives person B £100k to buy a house. Bank owns house so has £100k in assets at that point. They do not however have any equity, therefore if person A went to the bank and asked for the £100k they would not be able to hand over the money.

    Bank gives mortgage to person who can't afford to keep up mortgage repayments. Person defaults on debt that they owe. Bank therefore gains no income, while holding an asset they cannot sell, while the person who gave them the money to buy the asset requires interest on that money. Customers try and withdraw their savings due to lack of confidence but find they cannot (re: Northern Rock). Bank fails.

    Similarly with nation states if they default on a loan their credit rating will plummet & they will not be able to get foreign loans (they cannot fail like banks can though). This is why the Eurozone could not allow Greece to fail for instance, since it would effect the strength of the European currency & their ability to take out loans. Greek bond prices will be worthless too, losing other European investors (re: Germany) huge sums of money.

    At least this is how I understand it.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Other countries, banks stuff like that people who buy and own government bonds
    Surely most of the gilts are owned by the UK?
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    (Original post by CoffeeStinks)
    Millions of bankers own the bonds.
    Government say that they need to pay back the money that the country owe.
    So they mean they need to pay back the money to the millions of bankers who now hold the bonds.
    While saying that it was the bankers who lost the money.
    Do you not see anything suspicious about that?

    And to answer your question, no.
    You're a muppet, the bankers are custodians of the money, its owned by people contributing to pensions in the main, also savings paid into banks.

    Where do you think 'bankers' get their money from?
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    (Original post by CoffeeStinks)
    Then could we not wipe the slate clean?
    Sure, if you want to eliminate all of the banks (and hence the bank accounts of the country), wipe out tax revenues to an enormous extent whilst simultaneously destroying the ability of the government to borrow, thus destroying almost all public services, bankrupting almost all of the private sector and destroying the value of all of the currencies of the indebted nations.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    You're a muppet, the bankers are custodians of the money, its owned by people contributing to pensions in the main, also savings paid into banks.

    Where do you think 'bankers' get their money from?
    So do you honestly think that bankers just 'look after' the money, with out any actual input in how it is used? If as you said that the money inside a bank is solely owned by the people who put money into it then banks would be unable to invest in other people, which they obviously do.

    The fact that they can lend the tangible money that other people invest into the bank to other prospective investors means that they are gambling with the money because it isn't a sure thing that they will receive it all back.
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    (Original post by CoffeeStinks)
    So do you honestly think that bankers just 'look after' the money, with out any actual input in how it is used? If as you said that the money inside a bank is solely owned by the people who put money into it then banks would be unable to invest in other people, which they obviously do.

    The fact that they can lend the tangible money that other people invest into the bank to other prospective investors means that they are gambling with the money because it isn't a sure thing that they will receive it all back.
    No I said that the money people hold with banks and pension funds is used for other things in order to provide them a return.

    Of course it isn't a sure thing, thats the whole point.

    You asked who owns the debt, its savers and people who are contributing to pensions where there money is used to buy gilts so they start with more money than they started with.

    Don't you think you're just stating the obvious? - I do...
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    There appears to be a lot of misinformation in this thread. Im a regular ol' lurker and I signed up out of frustration to reply to this thread.

    The current deficit in the UK is irrelevant. We hear a large multi billion pound figure and the media unleash a **** storm about it. My mum is a civil servant and works in HM Revenue and Customs (aka the Inland Revenue). It is NOT a secret that the total 'deficit' in the UK is less than the total amount of unpaid taxes. I cant remember specific figures but the amount of taxes that are unpaid could potentially be 4 times what the deficit is(I remember watching some BBC program, panaroma or something and those were their figures).

    The big question is why. Why the hell do so many people get away with paying NO taxes whatsoever or not as much as they owe? I cant really remember but I think there is only 1 Compliance office in the whole country and they have to deal with ALL of the unpaid taxes.

    And they are being shut down and replaced by private sector debt collection firms thanks to our good friend's the conservatives. Just so you know, this will cost even more than opening compliance offices in every major UK city.

    Yes there was a huge worldwide financial meltdown and yes there was/is a banking crisis. To be quite honest these have nothing to do with the deficit. NOTHING WHATSOEVER.

    Worldwide we are in economic turmoil however in the UK, OUR deficit dont mean **** so stop going on about it.

    ps. the US owe money to absolutely everyone, dont get me started...
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    There was a joke made exactly about this on Live at the Apollo by Tommy Tiernan.
    Just thought you'd all like to know. He seems to think it's some rich ******* that we should all hunt down and kill and then all our problems will be solved.
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    (Original post by CoffeeStinks)
    So do you honestly think that bankers just 'look after' the money, with out any actual input in how it is used? If as you said that the money inside a bank is solely owned by the people who put money into it then banks would be unable to invest in other people, which they obviously do.

    The fact that they can lend the tangible money that other people invest into the bank to other prospective investors means that they are gambling with the money because it isn't a sure thing that they will receive it all back.
    Yes that's correct, your point? :sigh: If they didn't reinvest the money you deposit they would charge you a fee to hold that money.
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    (Original post by wactm)
    I cant really remember but I think there is only 1 Compliance office in the whole country and they have to deal with ALL of the unpaid taxes.
    Can you ask your mum how HMRC have 80,000 staff but only one people to investigate if people are paying the correct level of tax?

    Perhaps she could suggest to the perm sec that perhaps a team of 4 or 5 might be needed for it?

    I know HMRC can't recruit until April so perhaps it'll have to wait until then.
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    (Original post by Ewan)
    Yes that's correct, your point? :sigh:
    Quite - I found the response very puzzeling too...
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    well maybe your not aware but a whole lot of hmrc workers are being made redundant in the next few years.

    also they got a new computer system about a year ago that still doesnt work. sometimes a whole floor at my mums office spend the day waiting for tech support.
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    (Original post by wactm)

    Worldwide we are in economic turmoil however in the UK, OUR deficit dont mean **** so stop going on about it.

    ps. the US owe money to absolutely everyone, dont get me started...
    Really? Unless I'm mistaken, if the government is spending more money than it receives, they have to borrow. As with any loan you pay interest. The bigger pot of money you owe, the more money you shell out on interest.



    This year, the government will spend £44 billion on loan interest. How does it not mean "****" if we're spending the equivalent of half the education budget on paying our debt interest?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Can you ask your mum how HMRC have 80,000 staff but only one people to investigate if people are paying the correct level of tax?

    Perhaps she could suggest to the perm sec that perhaps a team of 4 or 5 might be needed for it?

    I know HMRC can't recruit until April so perhaps it'll have to wait until then.
    :teehee: government efficiency at its best :teehee:
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    Well America are in debt to China, they literaly can only pay the intrest of these debts. But China can't really do anything for 2 reasons;

    1. The size of the US military
    2. The main importer of Chinese exports is America


    China hold the most bonds for countries.
 
 
 
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