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Labour MP wants all drugs legally available Watch

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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    Is he being srs? Do I really wanna see people snorting coke on the streets and going insane - hell naw.
    Already happens.
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    (Original post by thisisnew)
    He proposed that hard drugs such as cocaine be available on prescription. I can't even comprehend how insane it would be for a government to be manufacturing hard drugs to appease unrelenting addicts and users. Just ****ing madness.
    If anything its madness to deny people safe substances if they wish to use them and continue to let criminals make huge profit when the money made from taxes, cost of substances etc could be spent on something beneficial.

    (Original post by thisisnew)
    Why don't we legalize child trafficking so we can marginalize the gangsters that run those circles?
    Null point, child trafficking is immoral and wrong. Smoking a spliff or whatever is what people want to do, it is safe and should be allowed. Daily mail readers comment really, take the very worst scenario and use its emotive content to sway peoples opinions when really your not addressing any points, just waffling. Child trafficking will always be a crime, narcotics have always been in society and its best to make them safe as possible as there is huge evidence against prohibition.

    (Original post by thisisnew)
    Also some of his arguments are way too broad. He says it would take the gangs out of drugs... No it wouldn't.They would still be there... dealing illegally perhaps for cheaper prices but at a greater demand due to limits on prescriptions.
    Now, i dont know how much you know about drugs and street value.. but most people pay £10 a gram for quality cannabis rather than £20 for 3.5grams of contaminated rubbish. The same fact for some people i know who spend £50 - 80 a gram on MDMA instead of the standard £40 because of the quality.

    My point is, people will pay more if they know they are getting proper goods, unless criminals provide pure substances for cheaper (which i doubt based on society nowadays) and undercut whatever the cost of getting them off the NHS this point very assumptive and ignorant. This is also putting aside that if you could go down your pharmacy and pick up whatever, you need not pace up and down streets wondering whos got what or drive to random peoples houses or meeting spots or go to the toilets in clubs etc for dodgey deals which is a very appealing factor.


    (Original post by thisisnew)
    Also does he think the people involved in drugs would simply give up and become good citizens? Really? They'd just move on to other stuff.
    I disagree saying that every single one will move onto another crime. Having meet a lot of dealers of a lot of different substances they are either selling to get by because its easy and if it was legal they would get a job as no one would buy off them, or merely funding their habit through selling small amounts off trusted suppliers or growing their own cannabis, things they no longer have to deal with.

    When it comes to heroin and coke.. well, most people who earn a substancial amount will have fingers in other pies as they are criminal businessmen not small time dealers.


    (Original post by thisisnew)
    Does he propose legalizing EVERY drug? Because if he doesn't then there will still be dealers and perhaps an increased demand in whatever remains illegal. This would also perhaps increase drug related violence as gangs now compete against each other regarding whatever remains illegal. If every drug is made legal then I leave it to you as to what madness will ensue.
    'Drugs gangs' are usually the last resort and they will have no business even if the prices of drugs tripled if legalised.

    I have no problem with every drug being legal, why should you? If a grown adult wants to do heroin then let him, his funeral and he knows the risks.

    In regards to 'party drugs' MDMA, speed, cocaine etc are used so much more than you think and create less social problems than Alcohol and research says taking ecstasy on a weekend is better for you than binge drinking.


    (Original post by thisisnew)
    Also just because they'd be legal doesn't mean the stigma surrounding users wouldn't disappear. Surely it would be available on some sort of record and many would turn to dealers for anonymity.
    Thats an individual insecurity about how one is perceived in society and not an issue here.

    (Original post by thisisnew)
    Granted it could slightly reduce drug related crime and the risks of impure drugs it would open up much more people to the risks and effects that come with use of such drugs. Do we really need that on top of alcohol?

    Madness.
    Please state the actual risks of using drugs (as vague a term as that is) that are not obvious (IE Smoking is bad for your lungs), melodramatic or from an alcohol company funded 'Talk to frank' esk website then..

    Apart from Crystal Meth, Heroin and Crack as these three, IMO, should stil be controlled and if you wish to use them you should go through a horrible side effects documentary/simulation and talk to users/addicts and be surrounded by the problems they cause before being allowed to even smell them lol
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    its all very well claiming that countries where drugs (or certain drugs) have always been legal dont have severe addiction problems, but legalisation (i.e. legalising drugs where they've always been illegal) may well be a completely different ball-game folks...
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    surely this will turn more gangs towards people-trafficking/prostitution etc...
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    Why?
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    Completely disagree. There seems to be a tension in society where drugs are concerned - there are the (Daily Mail) kind who want far more rigorous enforcement and far harsher penalties imposed, and the liberal (Guardian (for even-handedness)) kind who seem sympathetic to the legalisation arguments.

    For once, I think I actually agree with the Daily Mail on this. Keep them illegal.
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    :lolwut: legal? They've lost the plot...
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    (Original post by R£SP£CT)
    :lolwut: legal? They've lost the plot...
    Do you think the current policies are working? Are they keeping drugs out of the hands of people who want them?
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    I think people should be free to put whatever they want into their bodies. Also, the criminal element surrounding drugs comes from them being illegal, make them legal and the criminal element disappears.
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    (Original post by Super Collider)
    Do you think the current policies are working? Are they keeping drugs out of the hands of people who want them?
    It's not about "wanting" drugs, its about needing them. People are attached to drugs. Our policies may not be the most effective, however making them legal would only prove to worsen the situation we're in.
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    (Original post by Super Collider)
    Because child trafficking causes harm to other people.
    Whilst I'm not disagreeing with the proposals, nor agreeing, I think you'd need to expand on that a little bit more to put your argument forward - drugs abuse is notable for causing harm, through violence, through stealing, through personal problems such as addiction and loss of money, health, social disorders and so forth.
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    (Original post by DarkWhite)
    Whilst I'm not disagreeing with the proposals, nor agreeing, I think you'd need to expand on that a little bit more to put your argument forward - drugs abuse is notable for causing harm, through violence, through stealing, through personal problems such as addiction and loss of money, health, social disorders and so forth.
    Yes but it's pretty clear that the harm caused by drugs can be vastly reduced by making them legal. Most of the problems stem from the fact that drugs are criminalised and you can just look at the benefits Portugal's seen from decriminalising their drugs.
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    (Original post by Super Collider)
    Yes but it's pretty clear that the harm caused by drugs can be vastly reduced by making them legal. Most of the problems stem from the fact that drugs are criminalised and you can just look at the benefits Portugal's seen from decriminalising their drugs.
    Sure, it's just that what I quoted wasn't really saying what this is now; it suggested drugs didn't harm people, which legal or illegal, isn't true :p:
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      (Original post by Barden)
      surely this will turn more gangs towards people-trafficking/prostitution etc...
      Then legalise prostitution as well. I know some dealers of soft drugs anyway, they're not exactly going to turn to people trafficking just because drugs are legalised. If anything they'd just want to continue to sell drugs, but legally.
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      From a different thread, I think this post by Mr. Flipper is conclusive on the matter. It should be posted in every thread, be on every street and everyone should read it. It is truly fantastic.


      (Original post by CandyFlipper)
      The OP admitted that he didn't use a great specific example, I think too many people got caught up in literally comparing skiing to drug use. The principle is what matters, not skiing.

      Should the government legislate to stop us from doing harm to ourselves? If so, where do you draw the line? I think its wrong for the government to intervene to stop people harming themselves, especially when you consider that:

      - Not all drug users are even harming themselves, people only hear about drug abuse, you never see or hear about casual and safe drug use.

      - The prohibition of drugs itself is responsible for a huge amount of the harm related to drugs (you wouldn't want to drink alcohol under the prohibition of alcohol, it'd be more dangerous than alcohol is now.)

      I also see that a lot of people are talking about addicts committing crime, and that being a bigger problem than the drugs themselves. Well then, you better support the legalisation of drugs because that would clearly eliminate the supply-side of criminal activity, with meddling drugs cartels being put out of business by legitimate businessmen, who pay taxes on their income and who would probably need to have a lisence (would be very surprised if that stipulation wasn't involved in a legalisation of drugs policy.) For us, this would be a pretty good thing, but for a country like Mexico it is absolutely essential - drugs cartels are tearing their entire country apart, they're having to use the military to fight them at the moment, the the ex president of Mexico has just openly called for the legalisation of drugs to stop them.

      In terms of addicts causing crime, I assume people mean muggings etc. Well there have been various schemes across the world lately e.g. in Vancouver or Brighton, to provide heroin addicts with a refuge to legally inject, using clean needles and supervised by nurses (who even advise on which veins to use etc). Firstly this stops disease spreading, which is especially useful if the addict turns to prostitution where they could spread the disease to the wider public, but secondly it means that as soon as they feel they want to quit - they have doctors and nurses around them, prepared to give them a detox. These pilot schemes are regarded as a great success wherever they're tried, with more addicts seeking medical help to come off the drugs, with less disease spreading and to link it back into crime - with reduced crime and usage rates!

      "Offences down from 1,731 in 30 days to 547 in six months
      Spending on drugs down from £300 to £50 a week"


      There is just one problem with these schemes, and that is that the heroin they use is still illegal of course. If it was legally sold to these people it would be much better on many levels:

      - Drug cartels won't be enjoying the huge profits
      - The drugs would be purer and safer
      - The drugs would be much much cheaper

      Street heroin is very rarely pure, in fact the average purity of heroin is 40% pure - and this will cost you £40 per gram. The NHS can produce a gram of100% pure heroin for £5.

      There would be much less crime under legalisation, because drugs would be so much cheaper (even after taxes), and because more people would seek medical rehabilitation - and casual users (yes, casual heroin users DO exist) would be more likely to maintain a normal standard of life given the smaller costs to them, the purity of the drugs they are using etc.

      The alternative, to throw these people in prison, has been tried - and its been a total failure.
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      (Original post by DJkG.1)
      Completely disagree. There seems to be a tension in society where drugs are concerned - there are the (Daily Mail) kind who want far more rigorous enforcement and far harsher penalties imposed, and the liberal (Guardian (for even-handedness)) kind who seem sympathetic to the legalisation arguments.

      For once, I think I actually agree with the Daily Mail on this. Keep them illegal.
      Actually, the Daily Mail readers are generally supportive of drug legalisation - or at least if the highest rated comments are anything to go by. Same is true with other right-wing papers such as The Sun.

      Seems to me like the majority of people in the country actually support legalisation (although this is based on my own experiences, not exactly a reliable source but there we go). If a politician actually running for votes had the balls to include some of these ideas, it would be interesting to see if it would work.
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      One of the best economics articles I have ever read is an articel about why all drugs should be legalised.

      A good figure, alcohol raises 26 billion pounds in revenue for the government.
      The main cost of drinking, to the NHS, is 4 billion pounds... It's a great revenue raiser.

      But I'm not sure if drugs like heroin should be available really. It's a pretty ****ed up thing. And I genuinely can see more people taking drugs, especially the next generation if it was legalised tomorrow, because it would have been legal for the whole of their lifetime, so when they hit 18 they might give it a go...

      Having said that, there's a few drugs that should definitely be legalised, there are some great arguments for it. But plenty against as well *sighs*

      All I know is, no government will be the one to propose it.
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      (Original post by thisisnew)
      He proposed that hard drugs such as cocaine be available on prescription. I can't even comprehend how insane it would be for a government to be manufacturing hard drugs to appease unrelenting addicts and users. Just ****ing madness.

      1. Why don't we legalize child trafficking so we can marginalize the gangsters that run those circles? Also some of his arguments are way too broad. He says it would take the gangs out of drugs... No it wouldn't. They would still be there... 2.dealing illegally perhaps for cheaper prices but at a greater demand due to limits on prescriptions. Also does he think the people involved in drugs would simply give up and become good citizens? Really? They'd just move on to other stuff. Does he propose legalizing EVERY drug? Because if he doesn't then there will still be dealers 3.and perhaps an increased demand in whatever remains illegal. This would also perhaps increase drug related violence as gangs now compete against each other regarding whatever remains illegal. If every drug is made legal then I leave it to you as to what madness will ensue.

      Also just because they'd be legal doesn't mean the stigma surrounding users wouldn't disappear. Surely it would be available on some sort of record and many would turn to dealers for anonymity.

      Granted it could slightly reduce drug related crime and the risks of impure drugs it would open up much more people to the risks and effects that come with use of such drugs. Do we really need that on top of alcohol?

      Madness.
      1.I dont think i really need to point out whats wrong with this. (Its the children bit)

      2. Just likme all those damn alcohol dealers everywhere

      3.I'm trying to find any logic behind this at all but i dont think i have much hope
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      (Original post by I'mNewHere)
      1.I dont think i really need to point out whats wrong with this. (Its the children bit)

      2. Just likme all those damn alcohol dealers everywhere

      3.I'm trying to find any logic behind this at all but i dont think i have much hope
      1. As pointed out drug use, especially harder/addictive drugs, does in fact cause harm to other people through violence, stealing etc.

      2. The "point" you made makes no sense. Are you high right now? Do you honestly think if this were to happen doctors would at out prescription cocaine on demand to junkies? No there would be a limit. Where would the junkies turn then? People still dealing! Woah? Difficult thing to understand, I know.

      3. People will always gravitate to what's currently illegal and there will always be big and quick money to be made in illegal trades. Surely I don't need to explain (even to a user) what's wrong with legalizing all drugs.
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      (Original post by EggmanD)
      If anything its madness to deny people safe substances if they wish to use them and continue to let criminals make huge profit when the money made from taxes, cost of substances etc could be spent on something beneficial.
      Pretty sure the money you make from legalization would be offset by increases in other crimes (by the actual criminals not street corner kids), thousands and thousands needing hospital treatment due to adverse reactions, overdose, education on the drugs, production & regulation.

      Null point, child trafficking is immoral and wrong. Smoking a spliff or whatever is what people want to do, it is safe and should be allowed. Daily mail readers comment really, take the very worst scenario and use its emotive content to sway peoples opinions when really your not addressing any points, just waffling. Child trafficking will always be a crime, narcotics have always been in society and its best to make them safe as possible as there is huge evidence against prohibition.
      Plenty of horribly things have "always been in society" and on a more relevant note alcohol is an example. Sorry we don't need to spend our time on sorting out alcohol related problems and drug related problems. And somebody else pointed out drug use does cause problems for other people. Another example. Why don't we legalize what is currently illegal arms trading? So what if people want to shoot a burnt out car in their back yard or whatever? Yes, the examples are extreme but they are there to show how ****ing ridiculous the notion that legalizing drugs will stop drg related crime. I you think otherwise then don't respond to me because I can't be bothered.
      Now, i dont know how much you know about drugs and street value.. but most people pay £10 a gram for quality cannabis rather than £20 for 3.5grams of contaminated rubbish. The same fact for some people i know who spend £50 - 80 a gram on MDMA instead of the standard £40 because of the quality.
      All you're talking about is soft drugs that kids take. The person you're siding with is talking about legalizing ALL drugs.

      My point is, people will pay more if they know they are getting proper goods, unless criminals provide pure substances for cheaper (which i doubt based on society nowadays) and undercut whatever the cost of getting them off the NHS this point very assumptive and ignorant. This is also putting aside that if you could go down your pharmacy and pick up whatever, you need not pace up and down streets wondering whos got what or drive to random peoples houses or meeting spots or go to the toilets in clubs etc for dodgey deals which is a very appealing factor.
      Yeah and people can't always pay more can they? Do you think a pharmacy would hand them out on demand? Pretty sure there would be a record and a limit and that reason alone is enough for the continuation of dealing. Even a junkie admitted this might make it safer for new drug users it makes it worse for current addicts and the like.

      I disagree saying that every single one will move onto another crime. Having meet a lot of dealers of a lot of different substances they are either selling to get by because its easy and if it was legal they would get a job as no one would buy off them, or merely funding their habit through selling small amounts off trusted suppliers or growing their own cannabis, things they no longer have to deal with.

      When it comes to heroin and coke.. well, most people who earn a substancial amount will have fingers in other pies as they are criminal businessmen not small time dealers.
      Again your focusing on small drugs mostly. I honestly believe that there is a small case (on safety grounds more than anything) for legalizing cannabis and MDMA but as I've pointed out this guy wants to legalize all drugs (absolute madness, sorry) and if all drugs aren't made illegal then you're not exactly solving the problem only moving it and making a specific area worse.

      'Drugs gangs' are usually the last resort and they will have no business even if the prices of drugs tripled if legalised.
      Really? If the prices are tripled then you're shafting the biggest user group: poor people. They will still have business.

      I have no problem with every drug being legal, why should you? If a grown adult wants to do heroin then let him, his funeral and he knows the risks.
      I have no problem with <insert activity here> if a grown adult wants to do it. Sorry that's a stupid general statement that can be used to justify almost anything.

      In regards to 'party drugs' MDMA, speed, cocaine etc are used so much more than you think and create less social problems than Alcohol and research says taking ecstasy on a weekend is better for you than binge drinking.
      They are? Care to back that up? I mean studies also show that drugs are bad mmkay? Going to need arguments which are stronger ten fold to not only convince people but to get all drugs legalized. And will you people stop ****ing using Alcohol in juxtaposition. Alcohol is so deep rooted that it will never be removed. If alcohol was recently discovered it would be illegal. I've said it before and I'll say it again for the 100th time we do not need the problems of alcohol and the problems of a wider group of people using a wider range of drugs. I know alcohol is bad, you don't need to tell me that. You also don't need to mention it and start talking about individual drugs.

      Thats an individual insecurity about how one is perceived in society and not an issue here.
      Yes it is an issue and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who looks down upon drug use. Pretty sure you're in a minority if you don't.

      Please state the actual risks of using drugs (as vague a term as that is) that are not obvious (IE Smoking is bad for your lungs), melodramatic or from an alcohol company funded 'Talk to frank' esk website then..
      Please state the actual risks of using alcohol that are not obvious i.e getting drunk and falling or from some pro drug website etc blah blah. What a stupid ****ing thing to say. You're saying "please state the risks but you're not allowed to cite anything that states the risks" well done. Are you a revered professional in the field of substance abuse? Are you a professional in neurobiology etc? No? Then why do you look upon the risks stated by certain websites etc as if they are written by a ten year old?


      http://www.heroin-effects.com/
      http://www.cocaine-effects.com/
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbiturate_dependence
      http://www.drugs.com/methadone.html
      http://www.ketamine-effects.com/
      http://www.beatingaddictions.co.uk/P...sSolvents.html

      Solvents... That's a good one. Are we going to legalize something (the activity of using solvents as a drug) which has a real potential to be fatal upon one dosage? Just reading upon the immediate effects of heroin and cocaine is enough for them to remain illegal. In fact we'd be guaranteed to see a rise in the use of date rape drugs. And you say they don't affect other people?

      Apart from Crystal Meth, Heroin and Crack as these three, IMO, should stil be controlled and if you wish to use them you should go through a horrible side effects documentary/simulation and talk to users/addicts and be surrounded by the problems they cause before being allowed to even smell them lol
      Again you're leaning towards softer drugs. You want them to be "controlled" while every other drug is what exactly? Freely available? I'll leave you to see why that's retarded. Also there is education regarding alcohol which has little effect so what makes you think people are going to listen to education regarding any drugs? If they really want to take it then they'll find a way regardless.
     
     
     
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