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    (Original post by Law123mus)
    But why, these are just material things.
    You might as well say the US Declaration of Independence is just a piece of paper, flog it off for millions and have it written up on a piece of 0.1p printer paper. The material value of a piece of cloth is negligible, but the symbolic value is enormous.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    You might as well say the US Declaration of Independence is just a piece of paper, flog it off for millions and have it written up on a piece of 0.1p printer paper. The material value of a piece of cloth is negligible, but the symbolic value is enormous.
    Fair point.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    You might as well say the US Declaration of Independence is just a piece of paper, flog it off for millions and have it written up on a piece of 0.1p printer paper. The material value of a piece of cloth is negligible, but the symbolic value is enormous.
    More Humans on this planet value the Quran than those who gave a toss about the US Declaration of Independence...
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    People get annoyed because of the message of hate people try to send out when they burn things that represent people. It's just not nice to be hated? I don't think you should do it really... Whether it be a Qu'ran or a flag because it's only going to make things worse.

    The most annoying thing is that everyone has pretty legitimate reasons to hate the people they hate, but people always go that step further and hate every single thing associated with the thing/person/place they hate and then we get flags being burnt etc...
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    (Original post by 4TSR)
    More Humans on this planet value the Quran than those who gave a toss about the US Declaration of Independence...
    Doesn't change the value it holds to the people who do 'give a toss'
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    (Original post by Harry-AA)
    Doesn't change the value it holds to the people who do 'give a toss'
    Yes so burning the declaration of independence should be allowed then? Do I have the right to burn it? or would that be too offensive? I personally wouldn't I would rather, If I had anything against the US, to debate it and argue about it in an intellectual civilised manner.

    I'm just trying to make a point...
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    (Original post by L i b)
    You might as well say the US Declaration of Independence is just a piece of paper, flog it off for millions and have it written up on a piece of 0.1p printer paper. The material value of a piece of cloth is negligible, but the symbolic value is enormous.
    However you could also argue that whatever happens to the piece of cloth the constitution is written on is irrelevant, because the ideology behind it is imprinted in american society. You may destroy the constitution but you cannot destroy the ideology of americanism. And if anything destroying it will only serve to stregnthen the ideology....:dontknow:
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    (Original post by 4TSR)
    Yes so burning the declaration of independence should be allowed then? Do I have the right to burn it? or would that be too offensive? I personally wouldn't I would rather, If I had anything against the US, to debate it and argue about it in an intellectual civilised manner.

    I'm just trying to make a point...
    Ah I see, no you shouldn't. I'm also against the pretty retarded way of trying to make a point by burning your own money.
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    (Original post by Harry-AA)
    Ah I see, no you shouldn't. I'm also against the pretty retarded way of trying to make a point by burning your own money.
    Burning the Quran is as offensive and stupid as burning anything of value to anyone...
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    (Original post by 4TSR)
    Burning the Quran is as offensive and stupid as burning anything of value to anyone...
    I know it is, it's not going to come to any good, it's just going to make the people you hate do what you hate more...
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    (Original post by adam_zed)
    Yes but you can apply such sentimental value to any object. I could take offence next time someone burns a cigarette as it is disrespectful to those who were oppressed and forced to pick tobacco.
    Anything which holds sentimental value to someone shouldn't be burned by another.

    Like you say, if your aware that someone holds particular sentimental value over a book then you would be acting disrespectfully to burn it. And it's the same for the flag of a country. Many millions of people take pride in the American flag and therefore burning it will cause a reaction. The same with the Bible or the Qur'an.

    However I think that the smoking of Tobacco isn't the same as pride in ones country.
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    (Original post by S129439)
    Anything which holds sentimental value to someone shouldn't be burned by another.

    Like you say, if your aware that someone holds particular sentimental value over a book then you would be acting disrespectfully to burn it. And it's the same for the flag of a country. Many millions of people take pride in the American flag and therefore burning it will cause a reaction. The same with the Bible or the Qur'an.

    However I think that the smoking of Tobacco isn't the same as pride in ones country.
    So there are rules on what can be held to be sentimental and what cant? What about if that cigarette had in fact been a roll up which my favourite Grandad had rolled just before passing?

    By the way, I dont have a particular opinion on the subject, Im just playing devils advocate. I still stand by my idea that holding sentimental value to an inanimate object is pointless, but I can still emphasis how people are taught that burning the word of God is bad or the anger seeing a burning flag can stoke upon those who hold emotional ties with it.
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    (Original post by adam_zed)
    So there are rules on what can be held to be sentimental and what cant? What about if that cigarette had in fact been a roll up which my favourite Grandad had rolled just before passing?

    By the way, I dont have a particular opinion on the subject, Im just playing devils advocate. I still stand by my idea that holding sentimental value to an inanimate object is pointless, but I can still emphasis how people are taught that burning the word of God is bad or the anger seeing a burning flag can stoke upon those who hold emotional ties with it.
    There aren't rules per se but I think it's obvious what is right and wrong.

    If you know that something holds sentimental value to someone then you shouldn't defile it. No matter what that thing is or how much you personally disagree with attaching sentiment to something its still wrong to burn it or break it or whatever. In your example, how often do people have to get rid of cigarettes rolled by someone they loved before their untimely death and how likely is someone to know that's the case? If they knew what the cigarette represented then they are in the wrong and the same with people burning the American flag. However if they were unaware then they haven't purposely offended anyone and therefore should be forgiven.

    For me, the only rule is that if you KNOW something to have sentimental value then it is a different case if you burn/break it than if you had no idea what it represented.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...untry-11835253

    This is an example. The girl claimed to not know what the Qu'ran reprsents and therefore didn't realise the offence she was causing by burning it. However IMO that's a steaming pile of BS because everyone who lives in the UK knows what the Qu'ran is. But if she genuinely didn't know what it was then you can't hold her to account for it.

    I think the overall point is, regardless of how you feel about an object, if you know it to have sentimental value to another, you are committing a disrespectful act by burning it.

    A lack of respect is defined entirely by the views of the person who receives it.
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    (Original post by S129439)
    There aren't rules per se but I think it's obvious what is right and wrong.

    If you know that something holds sentimental value to someone then you shouldn't defile it. No matter what that thing is or how much you personally disagree with attaching sentiment to something its still wrong to burn it or break it or whatever. In your example, how often do people have to get rid of cigarettes rolled by someone they loved before their untimely death and how likely is someone to know that's the case? If they knew what the cigarette represented then they are in the wrong and the same with people burning the American flag. However if they were unaware then they haven't purposely offended anyone and therefore should be forgiven.

    For me, the only rule is that if you KNOW something to have sentimental value then it is a different case if you burn/break it than if you had no idea what it represented.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...untry-11835253

    This is an example. The girl claimed to not know what the Qu'ran reprsents and therefore didn't realise the offence she was causing by burning it. However IMO that's a steaming pile of BS because everyone who lives in the UK knows what the Qu'ran is. But if she genuinely didn't know what it was then you can't hold her to account for it.

    I think the overall point is, regardless of how you feel about an object, if you know it to have sentimental value to another, you are committing a disrespectful act by burning it.

    A lack of respect is defined entirely by the views of the person who receives it.
    decent answer but you rely imo on the concept of right and wrong which also imo suggests that there is a universal a nd concrete system of morals. those who burn flags probably think that they are fighting oppression with a symbolic act in the same way that we me defend ourselves from a theoretical oppressive and despotic government or occupying force. In our eyes it is bad but in their eyes it is not.
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    (Original post by ash92:))
    Okay, that's just silly, immature and immoral. religion and culture/politics should never be mixed - they're completely different.

    oh btw OP, it's stupid. burning a flag? big deal, people should get over it.
    This is very ironic. Religion and politics aren't different, they're actually very similar when you see their purposes and what they've done for humanity (both good and bad). You state that there isn't anything wrong with burning a flag and people should just get over it. But, when someone makes a point about the Qu'ran you get emotional. Why? Because the Qu'ran is a very personal thing to you and means a lot to you. Whereas, the American flag really doesn't. Now, try and see it from Sabertooth perspective. Americans are very patriotic and love their country, it means a lot to them. When you burn the flag, they feel what you feel when you see someone burning a Qu'ran. The Qu'ran doesn't mean anything to them, they have no reason to respect it other than because it is a very personal things to others and they should respect that. Now, if that's your argument, surely it could be applied to the American flag?
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    The idea I seem to be getting from this thread is we feel we should protect the koran more than our own flags and that is reflected in my own feelings towards flag burning; I find it funny how muslims are pissed off enough to show this much disrespect. One thing that is certain is that book or flag burning is born out of ignorance, which maybe should tell us we see the flaws in our society but try to see the best in others.
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    David Mitchell - brilliant comedian.

    Tbf, you could easily replace the word flag with anything of your possession.
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    (Original post by SomaliMan)
    I know bro, we see pics of this each day on TV, they don't as they're to bussy watching Jeremy Kyle and shagging people. But there's no point talking to them, especially Americans their whole country was build on crime, murder and slavery.
    Exactly bro. People in the west vote for governments who come into power and then send troops to kill muslim women and children. Blood is on they're hands imo and they don't care because they're out clubbing, boozing and getting f***ed by strangers every friday and saturday night. But they don't want to face the truth or debate about what the government are doing in Iraq and Afganistan. Shame on them!
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    It's the meaning behind the act. A very weird analogy just off the top of my head - when Prince Harry dressed up as a Nazi for a party, I thought he was a bit of an idiot but left it at that. If Prince Harry had dressed up as a Nazi in order to attend Holocaust memorial day, I would think he was expressing his hatred for Jews or something. The costume, like the flag, is just a bit of fabric, but like the flag it comes with huge connotations.
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    This proves nothing
 
 
 
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