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Evaluate my diet for its strength/mass building merit.. Watch

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    (Original post by xc1991)
    i'm getting around 3500kcal, (i'm thinking about upping this to 4000kcal though), and normally i get around 200-240g protein (I weigh 207lbs at 6'2)
    You just need to find the balance between gaining good weight (i.e .5 - 1lb a week) and gaining bad weight (1.2lbs+). Ideally, for a lean bulk, .5 will be sufficient. It may be slow, but it makes you leaner than if you just ate **** loads. To lean bulk, you only need to be 300-500 calories over maintenence, to see good results.

    As long as you hit your protein and fat requirements for the day, then the rest of your calories can be made up of whatever.

    So for you.

    258.75g of protein per day, based on 1.25g of protein per lb of bodyweight.
    144.9g of fat per day, based on 0.7g of fat per lb of bodyweight.

    1032 calories to come from protein. Based on Protein being 4cal per g.
    1296 calories to come from fat. Based on fat being 9cal per g.

    2328 calories coming from both fat & protein, the rest, to be made up of carbs/fat/protein. The above workings are just your minimum.
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    (Original post by xc1991)
    i only work out 3 times a week, for about 1 hour though. do you think i need to up my carb intake on rest and training days? or just the training days?
    You need carbs the day before you train too, and unless you are a lazy tart when you are training I think you need to up your carbs on all days and stop fannying about
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    (Original post by uktotalgamer)
    You just need to find the balance between gaining good weight (i.e .5 - 1lb a week) and gaining bad weight (1.2lbs+). Ideally, for a lean bulk, .5 will be sufficient. It may be slow, but it makes you leaner than if you just ate **** loads. To lean bulk, you only need to be 300-500 calories over maintenence, to see good results.

    As long as you hit your protein and fat requirements for the day, then the rest of your calories can be made up of whatever.

    So for you.

    258.75g of protein per day, based on 1.25g of protein per lb of bodyweight.
    144.9g of fat per day, based on 0.7g of fat per lb of bodyweight.

    1032 calories to come from protein. Based on Protein being 4cal per g.
    1296 calories to come from fat. Based on fat being 9cal per g.

    2328 calories coming from both fat & protein, the rest, to be made up of carbs/fat/protein. The above workings are just your minimum.
    the body can't use that much protein without steroids
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    (Original post by MattGriff)
    the body can't use that much protein without steroids
    How much are roids mate? Would have made a good stocking filler now I think about it
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    (Original post by Lamps08)
    How much are roids mate? Would have made a good stocking filler now I think about it
    various amounts, but not for discussion on here
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    (Original post by MattGriff)
    various amounts, but not for discussion on here
    Are they not legal? I eat that **** for breakfast!

    edit: serious question though. I'm joining a gym next week, I hope, but I've never done squats b4 and am slightly concerned cause I have a messed up right foot and poor stability on it. Is there anyway of me knowing whether I will be able to perform a squat b4 going to the gym and making a fool of myself? Also I favour my left side because of the problem so how can I change that?
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    (Original post by Lamps08)
    Are they not legal? I eat that **** for breakfast!
    Legal for personal use, but illegal to sell or distribute in the UK
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    (Original post by sil3nt_cha0s)
    looks like you spend your whole time preparing and eating food, and going to the gym.
    looks like u spend your whole time on a forum hating on some1 who actually gets off his ass and does something.

    let me guess ur fat.
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    (Original post by MattGriff)
    the body can't use that much protein without steroids
    Are you for real? The guys 207lbs. Of course his body can cope. By all means he can use protein shakes to make up 50g of the protein, but 200+g of protein a day is nothing. Some people can easily get 400 a day. Don't be so stupid. Protein is an important part of gaining good muscle.

    At a minimum, an absolute minimum OP needs 207g of protein a day to gain some muscle. Another 50grams is nothing. Seriously.
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    (Original post by uktotalgamer)
    Are you for real? The guys 207lbs. Of course his body can cope. By all means he can use protein shakes to make up 50g of the protein, but 200+g of protein a day is nothing. Some people can easily get 400 a day. Don't be so stupid. Protein is an important part of gaining good muscle.

    At a minimum, an absolute minimum OP needs 207g of protein a day to gain some muscle. Another 50grams is nothing. Seriously.
    Yes I am for real, I don't suffer from the same bodybuilder flex promoted supplement company nonsense you do.

    Please provide the research that can show the body can use that much protein for muscle growth.

    If it could and you had say 400 a day as you suggest then add that up over a week
    2.8kg protein right? Ever built 2.8 kg of muscle in a week?
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    (Original post by MattGriff)
    Yes I am for real, I don't suffer from the same bodybuilder flex promoted supplement company nonsense you do.

    Please provide the research that can show the body can use that much protein for muscle growth.

    If it could and you had say 400 a day as you suggest then add that up over a week
    2.8kg protein right? Ever built 2.8 kg of muscle in a week?
    Bodybuilding flex promoted supplement company nonsense? I don't suffer from that. I just know the facts, unlike yourself.

    Im not saying that the body can gain 2.8kg of muscle per week from getting 2.8kg of protein. Of course not. That would be ridiculous.

    Im saying that OP needs a minimum of 207g of Protein per day, to aid muscle recovery. That is a fact. You need protein to grow. As much as you seem to focus on carbs, which in some part is correct. You need more carbs than protein to stop your body from going into a ketogenic state. But. Protein is so valueable while trying to build muscle, and that is a fact. You need a minimum, an absolute minimum of 1g per lb of bodyweight.

    What you have to realise, is that OP's weight requires him to eat a lot more than the average person to even maintain his weight. If OP did absolutely nothing in a day, as in, not even moving out of bed. He would still need 2166 calories to maintain his weight, despite being totally idle.

    I cannot be bothered to find research to back up my claims, as

    >It's late.
    >You seem to be the only one that thinks that a lot of protein is not needed to build muscle.

    However, I will post 3 articles below that back each other up. And as one of them says, there have been no studies conducted to show that a lot of protein is bad for you.

    http://www.musclehack.com/how-much-p...-build-muscle/

    http://stronglifts.com/protein-daily...urces-protein/

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/randy11.htm
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    (Original post by uktotalgamer)
    Bodybuilding flex promoted supplement company nonsense? I don't suffer from that. I just know the facts, unlike yourself.

    Facts? again by all means prove it

    Im not saying that the body can gain 2.8kg of muscle per week from getting 2.8kg of protein. Of course not. That would be ridiculous.

    Yes it would wouldn't it, but that does not have seem to have sunk in

    Im saying that OP needs a minimum of 207g of Protein per day, to aid muscle recovery. That is a fact.

    No, no it is not. It is what you are spouting based upon a common misconception. Stating something as 'fact' when you don't actually know it to be scientifically true is ridiculous

    You need protein to grow. As much as you seem to focus on carbs, which in some part is correct. You need more carbs than protein to stop your body from going into a ketogenic state.

    This is one one aspect of carbs, given you have missed the main one in regards to protein I know I am dealing with a student of the 'flex' generation

    But. Protein is so valueable while trying to build muscle, and that is a fact. You need a minimum, an absolute minimum of 1g per lb of bodyweight.

    Actually research shows that between .8-1.5g per KG no lb of bodyweight is sufficient without the use of AAS, pepties or HGH, and more and no further growth or recovery is noted. Much like filling up a car tank, it needs a full tank, but if you were to fill it twice the extra is just wasted


    What you have to realise, is that OP's weight requires him to eat a lot more than the average person to even maintain his weight. If OP did absolutely nothing in a day, as in, not even moving out of bed. He would still need 2166 calories to maintain his weight, despite being totally idle.

    That is very specific and it also shows me what I am dealing with in you. No two humans are exactly the same, his fitness level, thermogenic muscle mass, fat mass and so on will all have variable effects on the amount of Kcals he requires, as such that part of your post is utter uneducated nonsesne

    I cannot be bothered to find research to back up my claims, as

    You can't

    And, you can't

    >It's late.
    >You seem to be the only one that thinks that a lot of protein is not needed to build muscle.

    And the sports dietetic bodies, you know the actual scientists and athletes that have opened their mind to this

    However, I will post 3 articles below that back each other up. And as one of them says, there have been no studies conducted to show that a lot of protein is bad for you.

    http://www.musclehack.com/how-much-p...-build-muscle/

    http://stronglifts.com/protein-daily...urces-protein/

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/randy11.htm

    What if them, there is no actual evidence provided, they are internet articles - I can find ones that state the holocaust didn't exist - doesn't make it so though in the face of scientific discovery does it.
    Yawn, come back when you know anything other than broscience
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    (Original post by MattGriff)
    Yawn, come back when you know anything other than broscience
    We'll have to agree to disagree i'm afraid.

    Protein is needed for bulking up. That's for sure. It's strange how a lot of people seem to say things like 1g for every lb of bodyweight, yet you seem to be the only one not informed on this forum.

    How you can possibly come to the conclusion that eating 2.8kg of protein per week will lead to a 2.8kg weight gain, shows how ridiculous your argument is.

    I don't really agree with most things that you've said in the above post. You seem certain that you don't need that much protein and won't be moved. Your attitude is very patronizing, as of course. You cannot be possibly wrong.

    However, I must inform you, you are wrong. So, i'll stick to my 1.25g protein per lb of bodyweight per day, and you can stick to your recommeded 45g, with no doubt tons of Carbs, and we'll see who can gain the most muscle.

    Dear god, your so wrong, it's unbelievable. Like I said, i'll agree, to disagree.

    I'd love Bish's input on this. I really would.
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    (Original post by uktotalgamer)
    We'll have to agree to disagree i'm afraid.

    Protein is needed for bulking up. That's for sure. It's strange how a lot of people seem to say things like 1g for every lb of bodyweight, yet you seem to be the only one not informed on this forum.

    Of course protein is needed, but not as much as you claim. For bulking purposes more carbs are required for many many reasons

    How you can possibly come to the conclusion that eating 2.8kg of protein per week will lead to a 2.8kg weight gain, shows how ridiculous your argument is.

    Not my argument, you were the one talking of such high amounts of protein being the very minimum required. I am using an example which your simple little mind seems to miss, tell me then, what is all that protein doing as it is apparently not building muscle to the value of the protein you are consuming - care to enlighten us all

    I don't really agree with most things that you've said in the above post. You seem certain that you don't need that much protein and won't be moved. Your attitude is very patronizing, as of course. You cannot be possibly wrong.

    I believe in science, and I did once think the same way you do, then I was educated and my performance, lean mass and strength rapidly increased vs what they were doing before. As such it is not about me being right or wrong, but what the actual scientific evidence suggests

    However, I must inform you, you are wrong.

    It's all well and good informing me of that, but you have not offered a single argument other than 'you need it' against me - are you a simpleton?

    So, i'll stick to my 1.25g protein per lb of bodyweight per day, and you can stick to your recommeded 45g, with no doubt tons of Carbs, and we'll see who can gain the most muscle.

    Given I am the strongest member on the board, and carry alot of lean mass then ok bro, lets do it lol

    Dear god, your so wrong, it's unbelievable.

    hey like I said, prove it - its a very simple concept

    Like I said, i'll agree, to disagree.

    I am happy to believe you if you can prove it, all you have offered is words, no research

    I'd love Bish's input on this. I really would.
    Please give an actual argument next time not some uneducated drivel like a child just sating "Your wrong, your so wrong, I'm telling mum how wrong you are"

    Thanks for the zero power neg rep too - just about sums you up
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    (Original post by MattGriff)
    Please give an actual argument next time not some uneducated drivel like a child just sating "Your wrong, your so wrong, I'm telling mum how wrong you are"

    Thanks for the zero power neg rep too - just about sums you up
    I can see im never going to win this argument against such a bigot, therefore, i'll be the better man and won't argue anymore after this post, while you continue to give OP false information.

    How much protein would you personally recommend OP consumes per day then? Since your word, seems to be the word of god, please enlighten us all, while I bow infront of you, with your neverending fountain of knowledge.

    Im not claiming that you need ridiculous amounts of protein. 254g is nowhere near, ridiculous. Nor am I saying that you need more protein than carbs.

    You claim my argument is based on "Your wrong, your wrong" yet all you spout out is "prove it, prove it" and then go on to question my intelligence.

    You post some of your scientific research, and I will honestly be open to changing my opinion.

    However, at the moment, i'll agree to disagree.

    EDIT: Since you claim to be the biggest member, maybes you could advise me on something. I've been barbell benching uptill now, but my gym has a weights limit. I can only put 70kg on each side of the barbell. So, basically, would I be ok, switching to dumbell pressing, since they go upto 80kg each? Would I find it harder?
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    (Original post by uktotalgamer)
    I can see im never going to win this argument against such a bigot, therefore, i'll be the better man and won't argue anymore after this post, while you continue to give OP false information.

    How much protein would you personally recommend OP consumes per day then? Since your word, seems to be the word of god, please enlighten us all, while I bow infront of you, with your neverending fountain of knowledge.

    Im not claiming that you need ridiculous amounts of protein. 254g is nowhere near, ridiculous. Nor am I saying that you need more protein than carbs.

    You claim my argument is based on "Your wrong, your wrong" yet all you spout out is "prove it, prove it" and then go on to question my intelligence.

    You post some of your scientific research, and I will honestly be open to changing my opinion.

    However, at the moment, i'll agree to disagree.
    Lol, the attempts at sarcasm are poor to say the least.

    The op does not need more than 1.5g per kg of bodyweight, especially at a sub advanced level where the damage level to the muscle and neurological efficiency of the body are sub optimal.

    The op will do better ensuring he consumes more complex carbohydrate to allow energy for application to training, more sugary carbs post workout to restore glycogen levels and actually allow the protein consumed to be used for muscular development


    A quick link for you http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...99900704001005

    if that doesn't work try this http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...99900704001005

    Not one of the studies I was talking of but very interesting read, again the numbers used are not massively high and do not suggest 1g per lb as a bare minimum.

    Strength-trained athletes should consume protein consistent with general population guidelines, or 12% to 15% of energy from protein.
    We have greater calorific needs so the % of energy means yes we have an increase, but nothing like what you are talking about

    I will locate some others for you if you don't know how to use scholar?
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    (Original post by MattGriff)
    Lol, the attempts at sarcasm are poor to say the least.

    The op does not need more than 1.5g per kg of bodyweight, especially at a sub advanced level where the damage level to the muscle and neurological efficiency of the body are sub optimal.

    The op will do better ensuring he consumes more complex carbohydrate to allow energy for application to training, more sugary carbs post workout to restore glycogen levels and actually allow the protein consumed to be used for muscular development


    A quick link for you http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...99900704001005

    if that doesn't work try this http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...99900704001005

    Not one of the studies I was talking of but very interesting read, again the numbers used are not massively high and do not suggest 1g per lb as a bare minimum.



    We have greater calorific needs so the % of energy means yes we have an increase, but nothing like what you are talking about

    I will locate some others for you if you don't know how to use scholar?
    It wasn't sarcasm, I assure you. I've only been weightlifting for a year, so im open to new ideas. Plus, I just realised who you are. Powerlifter?

    Increase in protein by how much? I realise that the RDA is *******s. 45g would be nowhere near enough. But from a years worth of reading, i've always followed 1.25g per lb of bodyweight. As a result though, because I started off at a ridiculously low weight, as in 120lbs at 5"8, my calorific needs were low, therefore, while I did get my alloted protein for the day I had to keep the carbs and fat lowish, so that I woulden't put on more than 1lb a week. If 1g per lb of bodyweight isn't the minimum, surely it's the recommended, atleast? Protein aids recovery in muscle right? Surely the more the better.

    I understand all the complex carbs stuff, and the sugary carbs after a workout, thus why Banana's mashed in a protein shake have served me well.

    If I understand the article correctly, which I probably dont, the protein requirements that we take in, are only to aid the protein which we enevitably lose throughout the day? Therefore, as long as that protein amount that we take in, covers that loss, which our bodies naturally produce, then anything extra would be a waste?
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    (Original post by uktotalgamer)
    It wasn't sarcasm, I assure you. I've only been weightlifting for a year, so im open to new ideas. Plus, I just realised who you are. Powerlifter?

    Increase in protein by how much? I realise that the RDA is *******s. 45g would be nowhere near enough. But from a years worth of reading, i've always followed 1.25g per lb of bodyweight. As a result though, because I started off at a ridiculously low weight, as in 120lbs at 5"8, my calorific needs were low, therefore, while I did get my alloted protein for the day I had to keep the carbs and fat lowish, so that I woulden't put on more than 1lb a week. If 1g per lb of bodyweight isn't the minimum, surely it's the recommended, atleast? Protein aids recovery in muscle right? Surely the more the better.

    I understand all the complex carbs stuff, and the sugary carbs after a workout, thus why Banana's mashed in a protein shake have served me well.

    If I understand the article correctly, which I probably dont, the protein requirements that we take in, are only to aid the protein which we enevitably lose throughout the day? Therefore, as long as that protein amount that we take in, covers that loss, which our bodies naturally produce, then anything extra would be a waste?
    Correct, and yes I am powerlifter. One of the oft overlooked elements of protien consumption/use is that in order to use protine for recovery etc the body MUST have sufficient energy first and the body takes energy from the easiest source first.

    So in a diet high in fats, low in carbs and high in protien once the carbs are all used the next easiest source is the protien, this gets broken down first which is not the purpose of consuming it.

    If you are trainng very intensly your energy expenditure increases massively, this must be replaced before the effective uptake of protien into the muscles. Studies suggest around 5-7g per kg of lean mass which would make most people look in horror.

    However as per the article this does not men taking in say 700g carbs AND 400g protien along with fats, with the 700g carbs you do not NEED 400g protien becuase you are not wasting 2/3 of it replacing energy.

    Protien is harder to break down than carbs and fills you more, that is why so many noobs strugle eating enough with these high protien diets.

    One of the reasons alot of guys don't get really big is thier diet is all back to front, protiens are expensive to buy, carbs are cheap cheap cheap. I keep my dietary costs down despite eating huge volumes of food.
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    (Original post by MattGriff)
    Correct, and yes I am powerlifter. One of the oft overlooked elements of protien consumption/use is that in order to use protine for recovery etc the body MUST have sufficient energy first and the body takes energy from the easiest source first.

    So in a diet high in fats, low in carbs and high in protien once the carbs are all used the next easiest source is the protien, this gets broken down first which is not the purpose of consuming it.

    If you are trainng very intensly your energy expenditure increases massively, this must be replaced before the effective uptake of protien into the muscles. Studies suggest around 5-7g per kg of lean mass which would make most people look in horror.

    However as per the article this does not men taking in say 700g carbs AND 400g protien along with fats, with the 700g carbs you do not NEED 400g protien becuase you are not wasting 2/3 of it replacing energy.

    Protien is harder to break down than carbs and fills you more, that is why so many noobs strugle eating enough with these high protien diets.

    One of the reasons alot of guys don't get really big is thier diet is all back to front, protiens are expensive to buy, carbs are cheap cheap cheap. I keep my dietary costs down despite eating huge volumes of food.
    Im guessing though, that while bulking up, the last thing you want your body to do is use the protein for energy? You want the protein to repair your muscles after a workout, not to power you through the day.

    So if you can provide your body with enough carbs to fuel you, then the need for protein goes down, because it will be used solely for muscle recovery rather than energy?

    Even so, surely 200g of protein would be no overestimate for a 207lb man? Depending on the intensity of his workouts of course.
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    (Original post by uktotalgamer)
    Im guessing though, that while bulking up, the last thing you want your body to do is use the protein for energy? You want the protein to repair your muscles after a workout, not to power you through the day.

    Spot on

    So if you can provide your body with enough carbs to fuel you, then the need for protein goes down, because it will be used solely for muscle recovery rather than energy?

    again correct

    Even so, surely 200g of protein would be no overestimate for a 207lb man? Depending on the intensity of his workouts of course.

    it is vary variable to be honest, its not going to hurt him if he has it provided he has enough energy it will just get wasted away. trouble is first thing peole do is cut back on carbs, its like taking petrol out of a car, it can have as many HP as you want but without the fuel is going nowhere
    ...
 
 
 
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