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Poorest pupils '55 times less likely to go to Oxbridge'

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Original post by bobbycrisp
logically - and not trying to sound arrogant or big headed or anything - but isn't it likely that richer people ARE richer because they are smarter, and so they've earned more money, and so they pass on their intelligence to their children, who can go to Oxbridge becuase they're smart enough?


You utter cretin.
Original post by Logi
This is TSR where people really are stupid enough to try and argue that point :rolleyes: One person already has in fact but there will be more.

As for the actual topic I'd agree the problem starts way before unis so putting the emphasis there is pointless.


Exactly, equal opportunities is not the same as making everyone equal. By uni the inequalities of opportunity have already made most of their damage. Really it's the education of their parents and the standard of early education as well as secondary which really needs looked at.
Original post by bobbycrisp
logically - and not trying to sound arrogant or big headed or anything - but isn't it likely that richer people ARE richer because they are smarter, and so they've earned more money, and so they pass on their intelligence to their children, who can go to Oxbridge becuase they're smart enough?


...No. Just, no.

It's an unfair system, of course.. but I don't think private education really affects your education. I have 10 cousins, all of which are privately educated, except for me (I go to a comprehensive). Two of my cousins are the same age as me and didn't perform as well as me in GCSEs this year..
(slightly going off topic mind you)

There's always a few people in my school who go to Oxbridge every year, usually about 2 or 3 (none last year). I think 4 or 5 people have had interviews this year. It's more about intelligence than social background, surely? Or am I just being naive..
Anyone else get bored of stupid people and their constant inferences of causation from correlation?
This is almost - almost - as dumb as that guardian article about Oxford and black applicants.
Shocker.
looks like someone understands statistics
Reply 26
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Liar
12
Original post by Delaney
Source - BBC News


So is this another example of eliteness in Britains top universities or just another case of statistics being used to encourage uni's to accept less able students?


Achieving high grades when you come from a poor background shows you're more able, if anything.
Reply 27
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.Ali.
3
Original post by OMGWTFBBQ
Poorest pupils '55 times less likely to go to Oxbridge'

Reads: Poorest pupils '55 times less likely to be bright enough go to Oxbridge'

Nothing wrong with taking the best of the best, and totally ignoring social factors.

Edit: By not bright enough, I mean 'not educated to the required (high) standard', rather than born without natural ability.


This, I don't get why you got negged for it. :facepalm:

Why does it matter? If the best students are all private schooled, take them. If the best are all poor, take those ones instead.

Oh and usually, if they're not educated enough, it's their own fault. Have you ever been into a state school where you have those idiots at the back of the class shouting, on their phones, bullying everyone else, etc. Yeah, exactly. To be honest, who would want those people (not all poor people!) at Oxford and Cambridge? They don't deserve to be there.

Bring on the negs for having an opinion...:rolleyes:
Original post by Billydodger
Yep, the systems ****ed. I agree with not trying to make everyone equal, but rather to give everyone equal opportunities...but it's clear this doesn't happen.


You can bring the poor from the breadline but it's almost impossible to make them all good parents? Poor parenting produces poorly behaved children who disrupt state school and ruin education for the better behaves ones, that's what I believe. I think state education system is fine, but the children in it are actually the ones who ruin it. Having said that, in my middle school I used to be responsible for teaching the socially challenged kids how to read and stuff because I was well behaved and timid.. I don't really think I should have been the person to do that as an 8 year old or whatever!
Reply 29
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.Ali.
3
Original post by TimmonaPortella
Anyone else get bored of stupid people and their constant inferences of causation from correlation?
This is almost - almost - as dumb as that guardian article about Oxford and black applicants.


Indeed. It really irritates me, it's things like this which promote positive discrimination.
Reply 30
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.Ali.
3
Original post by bobbycrisp
logically - and not trying to sound arrogant or big headed or anything - but isn't it likely that richer people ARE richer because they are smarter, and so they've earned more money, and so they pass on their intelligence to their children, who can go to Oxbridge becuase they're smart enough?


Lol exactly. I got flamed for saying this once. If you're more intelligent, you'll achieve better academically, usually you'll get a better job, have a better quality of life, spend time with your children and make sure they're brought up right, the children will see education as a poestive thing and have ambition etc...is it really that hard for people to see? :lolwut:
Reply 31
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Skaiyote
9
State schools need to be improved. I don't get why the blame is always put on Universities, particularly Oxbridge.
Has anyone ever thought that perhaps a significant proportion of comprehensive state-schoolers just don't want to go to Oxbridge?

:dontknow:
Original post by LufcEllandRoad
I don't think you can pass IQ on. I may be wrong.


Yes, you are. Up to 80% of intelligence is genetic. I would agree with the above poster that the richest people are also often the most intelligent, and pass on their genes. Other factors are involved though.
Original post by FatboyGinger
Yes, you are. Up to 80% of intelligence is genetic. I would agree with the above poster that the richest people are also often the most intelligent, and pass on their genes. Other factors are involved though.


Learn something new everyday then :biggrin:
Far too many confounding factors to claim any causal relationship between deprivation and Oxbridge attendance.
Reply 36
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xRosieMx
Just got back from interview at Oxford, out of the 15 maths people i befriended, only the two going to private schools got a place, they weren't even in the right school year. Everyone else was from a state school and got rejected outright not even pooled. They get extra tuition and help to prepare for the MAT test, and we are invited for interview just as bums on seats. They don't care whether we have had preparation or went in blind. Who knows what kind of brown envelope underhand dealings are going on between these posh private schools and the Universities.
I am going to appeal against the decision. TBH i wouldn't go now anyway. Oxford is full of geeks and snobs, either people who have no life and study around the clock, or people who have been tutored all the way and fit the bill from a private school. There are very few normal kids from state schools who are just bright. And they're overrated anyway. I've heard they work you to the bone, and i've been advised to go elsewhere, there are plenty of unis with just as good reputations that allow you to have a social life too!!
They really aren't the Be all and End all...
:biggrin:
Reply 37
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bobbycrisp
Original post by loafer
next headline:

Richest private school pupils 237 times less likely to become Premiership footballers


Oh the injustice and inequality! Surprisingly relevant.


haha!
The problem is with the education system, not discrimination from Oxbridge. At the moment Oxbridge chooses the best academically gifted students. There will be disproportionately more students who are academically gifted from private schools, because they have had a better education.

What we need to do is work towards abolishing private schools and make sure every person has an equal education and is given equal opportunities. Until then unis will continue to choose the best students; unfortunately more of these will come form private schools than state schools.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by LufcEllandRoad
I don't think you can pass IQ on. I may be wrong. Plus IQ doesn't really equal salary, there are plenty of people without any qualifications and couldn't hack it at school that are billionaires.

You are wrong. See, e.g. Wikipedia on heritability of IQ. There's really no doubt that there's a significant correlation between parental IQ and the IQ of their children, and this holds true even in the case of e.g. adopted children.

And, no, IQ does not equal salary, but it is correlated with it. I think most of the research indicates their are diminishing returns to it, after which e.g. ambitition and interpersonal skills play a greater role.

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