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Which has more power at the moment: atheism/secularism or religion? Watch

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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    I'm assuming your knowledge goes beyond simple "yes" and "no" answers?
    Well yeah, but you asked if that's what I meant and it was. So yes. If you want me to elaborate on that, systematic persecution of the clergy has been a fixture of most far-left revolutionary movements throughout history. That's not entirely atheist extremism on its own terms since it's part and parcel of a wider political ideology, but it's the foremost example. On top of that, movements like the Cult of Reason during the Enlightenment ransacked places of worship and killed believers/preachers.

    (Original post by lovely_me)
    Yes but no atheists led to extreme actions in the name of atheism, unlike many theists.
    Sir, your argument fails.
    Errrrrr yeah they did. Good use of the top hat emoticon though, props
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      (Original post by JCC-MGS)
      Well yeah, but you asked if that's what I meant and it was. So yes. If you want me to elaborate on that, systematic persecution of the clergy has been a fixture of most far-left revolutionary movements throughout history. That's not entirely atheist extremism on its own terms since it's part and parcel of a wider political ideology, but it's the foremost example. On top of that, movements like the Cult of Reason during the Enlightenment ransacked places of worship and killed believers/preachers.
      No, the original answer should have been "no". Nobody has killed people on the grounds of scepticism about God. You're simply picking incidences where atheists were involved in killing people, and saying "arh, atheism makes people kill". Hitler was a vegetarian, presumably vegetarianism is a sick cult of death?

      Religions, on the other hand, claim to be been doing God's work . This includes the Crusaders, the Inquisition, witch trials, Hitler himself with the aid of the Vatican, terrorist bombings, and so forth and so on.

      Edit: Theism is a belief system, and atheism isn't. Therein lies your flaw.
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      (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
      No, the original answer should have been "no". Nobody has killed people on the grounds of scepticism about God. You're simply picking incidences where atheists were involved in killing people, and saying "arh, atheism makes people kill". Hitler was a vegetarian, presumably vegetarianism is a sick cult of death?

      Religions, on the other hand, claim to be been doing God's work . This includes the Crusaders, the Inquisition, witch trials, Hitler himself with the aid of the Vatican, terrorist bombings, and so forth and so on.
      You mean to say that when a group called the Cult of Reason which preaches the sovereignity of the human intellect over the abuses of clericalism ransacks a church and kills the priests inside, that act is inspired by something other than atheism and it's merely a coincidence that I'm drawing imaginary links to, or when anarchist rebels during the Spanish Civil War slaughtered Catholic priests under the premise of 'No Gods, No Masters' it was actually just an aimless slaughter? Yeah, good one brah. Watch that your fingers don't get permanently stuck inside your ears with all this forced ignorance you're peeping, G.

      (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
      Edit: Theism is a belief system, and atheism isn't. Therein lies your flaw.
      You're a prat that can't tell when he's arguing himself into a corner, therein lies your flaw. Atheism lends itself to the secularisation of society through active means, in the same way as Islam lends itself to the Islamification of society, Christianity led to the Crusades etc. Atheism is a belief system when it is an active disbelief in God, which has happened throughout history and your tedious attempts to change the terms of the debate to suit your own agenda are completely transparent.
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        (Original post by JCC-MGS)
        You mean to say that when a group called the Cult of Reason which preaches the sovereignity of the human intellect over the abuses of clericalism ransacks a church and kills the priests inside, that act is inspired by something other than atheism and it's merely a coincidence that I'm drawing imaginary links to, or when anarchist rebels during the Spanish Civil War slaughtered Catholic priests under the premise of 'No Gods, No Masters' it was actually just an aimless slaughter? Yeah, good one brah. Watch that your fingers don't get permanently stuck inside your ears with all this forced ignorance you're peeping, G.

        You're a prat that can't tell when he's arguing himself into a corner, therein lies your flaw. Atheism lends itself to the secularisation of society through active means, in the same way as Islam lends itself to the Islamification of society, Christianity led to the Crusades etc. Atheism is a belief system when it is an active disbelief in God, which has happened throughout history and your tedious attempts to change the terms of the debate to suit your own agenda are completely transparent.
        Why are you quoting me? You add nothing new to the discussion. Once again, you have failed to substantiate the charge that people have killed in the name of scepticism over the existence of God. You're left having to awkwardly clutch onto *** hoc fallacies.

        You also sprout more nonsense which reveals a lack of understanding of what atheism means. You say: "Atheism is a belief system when it is an active disbelief in God". So what? You have an active disbelief in God? Where is the link between "an active disbelief in God" = killing people? This is what I meant when I said "Theism is a belief system, and atheism isn't." Embracing theism means holding a whole code of law on how you should live your life. Atheism has no such code. There is no atheist 10 commandments, or atheist Holy Scripture. I can't put it any plainer.
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        (Original post by Aj12)
        When is the last time a group of atheists flew planes into a building in the name of their own skepticism of God?
        Cant recall, but I can recall when one forced state abolishment and massive closures of Religious Institutions, from 44'000 Paris Churches to the low hundreds
        The shooting of over 100'000 Clergymen between 1937–1938.
        Russian Guy, Moustache, you probably know of him
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        (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
        Why are you quoting me? You add nothing new to the discussion. Once again, you have failed to substantiate the charge that people have killed in the name of scepticism over the existence of God. You're left having to awkwardly clutch onto *** hoc fallacies.

        You also sprout more nonsense which reveals a lack of understanding of what atheism means. You say: "Atheism is a belief system when it is an active disbelief in God". So what? You have an active disbelief in God? Where is the link between "an active disbelief in God" = killing people? This is what I meant when I said "Theism is a belief system, and atheism isn't." Embracing theism means holding a whole code of law on how you should live your life. Atheism has no such code. There is no atheist 10 commandments, or atheist Holy Scripture. I can't put it any plainer.
        I think the only awkwardness here is that rather than trying to rebutt my clear illustration of atheist extremism throughout history or accepting it, you're fumbling to Google fallacies you have a tenuous understanding of to try and worm your way out of a concession that I'm right and you're being a numpty. You are arguing that the instances I gave are examples of coincidences where the atheism of the perpetrators is not an influence on their actions, and I'm arguing that when a movement of atheists ransacks a church and kills the priests inside against a wider backdrop of anti-clerical violence, their atheism might have a TINY BIT to do with it. Beliefs do not require ten commandments to be validated as beliefs, you prat. I don't believe that unicorns exist. My belief that unicorns do not exist means that I am somewhat resentful of the Church to the Unicorn down the road which I see as intellectually enslaving people on a faulty premise. I think I'll go and burn it down to free the people from such delusions. See? I've become an extremist and I haven't mentioned thy neighbour once, because your nonsense redefinition of what constitutes a belief is just that, nonsense. I'll put it in a diagram for you since you're obviously having trouble.

        Belief that there is no God -> belief that religion is illegitimate and as a result is undeserving of its influence -> belief that agents of said illegitimate belief system should be dealt with

        There you go, atheist extremism in three easy steps with historical examples to boot. Feel free to lazily link some Wiki articles of logical fallacies which are only vaguely appropriate though, that **** makes you look real pro.
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        Atheism does not have any power.

        Religion can influence governments and the people through its ideals.

        Atheism is void of ideals and purpose. It is just a state of confident skeptiscism.
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        (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
        No, the original answer should have been "no". Nobody has killed people on the grounds of scepticism about God. You're simply picking incidences where atheists were involved in killing people, and saying "arh, atheism makes people kill". Hitler was a vegetarian, presumably vegetarianism is a sick cult of death?

        Religions, on the other hand, claim to be been doing God's work . This includes the Crusaders, the Inquisition, witch trials, Hitler himself with the aid of the Vatican, terrorist bombings, and so forth and so on.

        Edit: Theism is a belief system, and atheism isn't. Therein lies your flaw.
        Why can't you keep consistent?

        No religion claims that terrorist bombings and the killing of innocents is God's work. Their followers may erroneously believe that it's the work of God, but it is not something religion sanctions. And therefore, you're back to square one.
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        Lord Hysteria knows he's getting bwoyed, it's just that his body toppled under the weight of the chip on his shoulder and fell on the keyboard, typing out his posts in an entirely random order. There is no explanation other than this freak accident for his insubstantial, inconsistent arguments. Either that or he is a numpty

        EDIT: That was an ad hominem by the way everyone, thought I'd save LH the trouble of Googling it
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        Religion is largely dominant in the world, secularism only seems to be growing currently in the developed west.
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        (Original post by JCC-MGS)
        Lord Hysteria knows he's getting bwoyed, it's just that his body toppled under the weight of the chip on his shoulder and fell on the keyboard, typing out his posts in an entirely random order. There is no explanation other than this freak accident for his insubstantial, inconsistent arguments. Either that or he is a numpty

        EDIT: That was an ad hominem by the way everyone, thought I'd save LH the trouble of Googling it
        buoyed, you mean?
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        (Original post by There will be Particles)
        buoyed, you mean?
        Nah, bwoyed. Like parred, boyd etc. Means he got made to look like a tit. Suppose you could say he is afloat his mire of pretension though, hardy-har
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        (Original post by Cringe)
        haha people still believe this...
        :facepalm2:
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        (Original post by Aj12)
        :facepalm2:
        Naive little kid.
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        Worldwide, clearly religion. Still less than 10% of the world's population are Atheists I imagine, but in the UK ... to be honest I don't know.

        I'd probably say secularism, as even the majority of religious people would rather politics and government don't mix, but nonetheless the religious influence is still there. The thing is it also depends on who is in government at the time, let's be honest. The Tories are far more willing to listen to religious figures than Labour ever were.
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        (Original post by turn and fall)
        Atheism does not have any power.

        Religion can influence governments and the people through its ideals.

        Atheism is void of ideals and purpose. It is just a state of confident skeptiscism.
        I'll ask you one question. Would you (be honest) rather live in Norway, or Saudi Arabia?
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        Speaking as an atheist myself, I think any philosophical viewpoint, be it a religion or absence thereof, or otherwise, can be hijacked by extremists and used to justifies great evils.

        There are examples of religion being used like this in the past, but then there are also ample examples of people doing amazingly selfless things, inspired by their belief in a God. It can be used to cause great pain and great relief.

        I see atheism as no less vulnerable to being hijacked by extremists.
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        (Original post by tieyourmotherdown)
        I'll ask you one question. Would you (be honest) rather live in Norway, or Saudi Arabia?
        Norway has a state church
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        (Original post by gladders)
        Norway has a state church
        Yes I know, but in reality it's a very secular country. Religion has little/no influence in the government whatsoever and church attendance is 3% or something ridiculously low. The fact that it has a state church doesn't really change anything as the most secular countries in the world have state churches, but that doesn't change the fact that religion has very, very little influence in their governments, and day to day life etc.
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        (Original post by tieyourmotherdown)
        I'll ask you one question. Would you (be honest) rather live in Norway, or Saudi Arabia?
        Norway I guess.
       
       
       
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