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Poorest pupils '55 times less likely to go to Oxbridge Watch

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    Well it can't really be 55 times less, now, can it? I mean, what's 55 times less than, say, 1? -54?
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    (Original post by hobnob)
    I think this deserves the 'most bizarre mixed metaphor of the month award'.
    Thank you, you can make what you will of the comment hopefully to the person intended it will have the correct consequences to force a rethink
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    (Original post by jonnyboy1993)
    Generally it doesn't pay to be so sure in yourself when it comes to Oxbridge. No one can know for certain that they will have a good interview. Plus I saw you want to go for architecture, which is one of the most oversubscribed courses at Cambridge. If I were you I'd be more cautious in being so sure in yourself, it'll only lead to you being too confident and then you might end up under-preparing for your interview. I had people telling me I would easily get it, and I had a pretty amazing reference too, but even then I wasn't confident at all, I prepared loads and it paid off.
    I can assure you that I will be over preparing. I'm not too confident but I am confident, why have people on this thread got a problem with my confidence, confidence comes from self belief.
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    (Original post by comrade_jon)
    Thank you, you can make what you will of the comment hopefully to the person intended it will have the correct consequences to force a rethink
    Why do you want to force me to rethink, rethink what exactly?
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    good we need to keep some establishments for the upper class
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    Why do you want to force me to rethink, rethink what exactly?
    It is not unfair to suggest you are being a bit arrogant, and such a way of thinking would not reflect well in an interview and would prompt a shock. My original comment was more complex than I meant to be - I merely insinuated that your confidence is, naturally, a result of being a big fish in the small pond of your school/area, where you may well be the most intelligent person there. However if you get into Oxbridge you may well find you're the worst in your year because of how intelligent students are.

    In turn, that means at interview you may well be up against people far far better. I know from coming from a grammar school of not much quality that I was miles ahead of everyone in my year, but some of the people I know at Cambridge are so much more intelligent than I am and were more intelligent than me at this stage too.

    Coming across as overconfident in interview would have dire consequences too. A big part of the interview is putting across your ideas to some world experts in your field, which they may well rip you apart (as kindly as possible) as they did to me on a few ideas. If you don't have the grace to be able to see that you're wrong and backtrack and then incorporate new ideas in place of your old ones, you will guaranteed be declined. Remember at Oxbridge the interview is there not to see if you're intelligent but to see if you fit the supervision/tutorial system.

    Hope this, just like the interview, merely makes you ponder a bit rather than be super confident.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    Lol, sh!t! Well, thats not a very modest statement, my apologies. Well, it is a good personal statement and it should get me an interview... I assume I'm going to be disadvantaged because of my background.. Hence why I'm bigging myself up (compensation). Well, I calculated/deviced (which ever word is more appropriate) a way to design something that couldn't be done as it had never been done before and you had to be exceptional in order to do so (my lecturers words, not mine), so that was an outstanding accomplishment, I feel. I am very confident :cool:, but I don't know about overly, even though my previous statement may portray that. The AA?? I may be poor now, I don't want things to stay that way.. By the way I didn't neg rep you... I will pos rep you after this post, compare the times..
    It's good that your so confident!
    Good luck in getting in to the uni.
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    (Original post by comrade_jon)
    It is not unfair to suggest you are being a bit arrogant, and such a way of thinking would not reflect well in an interview and would prompt a shock. My original comment was more complex than I meant to be - I merely insinuated that your confidence is, naturally, a result of being a big fish in the small pond of your school/area, where you may well be the most intelligent person there. However if you get into Oxbridge you may well find you're the worst in your year because of how intelligent students are.
    Yeah, I kind of got that! Me being the least intelligent or an average oxbridge student is not a certainty but a possibility.

    (Original post by comrade_jon)
    In turn, that means at interview you may well be up against people far far better. I know from coming from a grammar school of not much quality that I was miles ahead of everyone in my year, but some of the people I know at Cambridge are so much more intelligent than I am and were more intelligent than me at this stage too.
    Thats a fair point but it still is not a certainty. I would have to go there and find out. Just because you experienced something does not mean everyone will experience the same thing.

    (Original post by comrade_jon)
    Coming across as overconfident in interview would have dire consequences too. A big part of the interview is putting across your ideas to some world experts in your field, which they may well rip you apart (as kindly as possible) as they did to me on a few ideas. If you don't have the grace to be able to see that you're wrong and backtrack and then incorporate new ideas in place of your old ones, you will guaranteed be declined. Remember at Oxbridge the interview is there not to see if you're intelligent but to see if you fit the supervision/tutorial system..
    That is another fair point, I'm not over confident but I am very confident. Yes, if I am wrong, i am wrong. Life is a learning process and we can only better ourselves.

    (Original post by comrade_jon)
    Hope this, just like the interview, merely makes you ponder a bit rather than be super confident.
    Yeah, you have made me think but I'm still very confident, super is an exaggeration.

    Thanks for the advice I'm more than certain it will be invaluable.
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    (Original post by MrsCrackFox)
    It's good that your so confident!
    Good luck in getting in to the uni.
    Thanks, I hope so too.
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    I agree with one of the previous posters.

    Yes it is a serious problem - but we do not need to dilute the best institutions in the land. Instead, we need to focus on a more long term effort to improve the root causes, by investing heavily (and precisely) in the state education system. New Labour threw money at education - but that won't work. Its not about just investing money, but the right ideas and the correct implementation of those ideas.

    I speak from experience. I am of a working class background. There were many factors that hindered my progress all the way from junior school through to college. These factors are varied, but they all have an under-lying element - the lack of direction. My parents are extremely well intentioned and they work their asses off to provide for me and my siblings, however neither have been to university or college. Their complete understanding of the education system was based on what I told them and almost nothing more. This means that they weren't able to help me make critical choices etc.

    In addition to this, I had many other social problems to face with. I grew up surrounded by a community riddled with drug abuse, crime and an obsession with violence. My parents tried effortlessly to keep me away from this, it didn't work all the time though :tongue:

    On the other hand they were always there to give me encouragement and motivate me to study. Thats a lot more than what other people from my background get and again I say that from experience.

    Even though I'm not at a great uni and have great a-levels, I am confident that I will find a good job and if I am lucky enough to have children, they will have a much better experience of the education system. Or atleast I hope so.

    :pierre:
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    (Original post by EnR)
    Well it can't really be 55 times less, now, can it? I mean, what's 55 times less than, say, 1? -54?
    Maths, my darling, maths! I recommend it. Specifically, stats.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    I think that my confidence is justified, still doesn't guarantee me a place but one can only try.
    pro tip: In the future don't "big yourself up"- firstly, you have no reason to do so. Secondly, it makes you look like a prat. Lastly, other people will certainly have much more impressive acheivements than being praised by a lecturer....
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    (Original post by Achajecki)
    pro tip: In the future don't "big yourself up"- firstly, you have no reason to do so. Secondly, it makes you look like a prat. Lastly, other people will certainly have much more impressive acheivements than being praised by a lecturer....
    First two points are valid, as for the third one, you don't know me nor what I have achieved.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    First two points are valid, as for the third one, you don't know me nor what I have achieved.
    Yes, we'll just have to take for it that you're amazing. And now can you please drop this, guys? This isn't the 'Give King-Panther the attention he so rightly deserves' thread, after all.:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by chai wallah)
    Maths, my darling, maths! I recommend it. Specifically, stats.
    Linguistics would help you more in the case of the above sentence.
    If x is 2 times bigger than y, then x = 3y. Then, conversely, if x is 2 times smaller than y (still in terms of y, as the sentence is put) then that would make x = -y as y - "2 times y" = -y. What you're looking for is "1/55 as likely" which isn't at all the same thing.
    Indeed, the best way to put it would be to focus on the well-off students and say "they're 55 times more likely" but because the article is trying to achieve a negative spin off the news, it would be counterproductive to focus on how much better off the well-off students are, rather than how much worse off the other guys are because the latter simply raises more sympathy for the group you're working for.
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    [QUOTE=GiddensFTW;29032913]I found this quite interesting - wondering what your views are...
    I was a FSM student up until going to the local FE college and got rejected from Oxford pre-interview despite having AAA predictions, decent PS+ Reference and good admission tests score, so I can see this makes sense.

    ^ Implying you got rejected because you are from a poorer background, not because Oxford is one of the most competitive universities in the world to get into and its admissions officers have to cherry pick the best candidates.

    Just because you "have AAA predictions and a good PS/reference" doesn't mean you are guaranteed to get an offer, or even an interview.
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    I doubt much is going to be done about it considering we have a Tory government. As long as there are private schools, the gap will remain.
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    (Original post by Hem)
    I doubt much is going to be done about it considering we have a Tory government. As long as there are private schools, the gap will remain.
    Its not the 'gap' that is important.

    The Labour Party always refers to the 'gap' between rich and poor; but it actually widened to record levels under their government.

    Its not the gap that is important in these things. Its about bringing up the level of education recieved at the very bottom of society. That is where the focus should be in my opinion.

    I for one don't care if the gap remains. If the gap was to be closed - it would rely on atleast one of two things:
    1) That the top institutions - across the board - slow down in progress; or
    2) That the top institutions - across the board - completely halt in any progress.

    Both would be extremely bad for the country.

    I'm not some tory toff - but Labour is much worse for poorer people than the tories are.

    "You'd rather the poor were poorer, as long as the rich aren't any richer." - or words to that effect were uttered by Margaret Thatcher. That is exactly what modern day socialism is (and probably was from the start). Fuelled by the lies and propaganda spread by Gordon Brown and Co.

    *awaits the neg rep* lol.
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    Oxbridge don't discriminate against poorer kids at all thats bull****! The problem is they're more inflexible with the grades (than other unis) which are obviously much harder to get from a poor performing school so it ends up looking that way. The interviewers at certain colleges e.g. Peterhouse have a particular 'mould' they like as is its similiar to their own interests/bias but as long as u are careful with the colleges u go for it shouldn't be a problem. Kings, Queens and Newnham are very good on access.

    I went to state skl 6th form with 250 people in my year and only 5 applied. My cousin went to rough inner city state 6th form with 200 in his 6th form and 2 applied. My gf used to go to an independent skl with 80 in her year and 30 applied to oxbridge. It's not particuarly suprising theres a high % of public skl kids at oxbridge considering the volume of those applying and the coaching they get. Its not Oxbridges fault.
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    (Original post by EnR)
    Linguistics would help you more in the case of the above sentence.
    If x is 2 times bigger than y, then x = 3y. Then, conversely, if x is 2 times smaller than y (still in terms of y, as the sentence is put) then that would make x = -y as y - "2 times y" = -y. What you're looking for is "1/55 as likely" which isn't at all the same thing.
    Indeed, the best way to put it would be to focus on the well-off students and say "they're 55 times more likely" but because the article is trying to achieve a negative spin off the news, it would be counterproductive to focus on how much better off the well-off students are, rather than how much worse off the other guys are because the latter simply raises more sympathy for the group you're working for.
    This is actually chewing up my brain - I'll check it out and report back!
 
 
 
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