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Advice on how to avoid friend-zone Watch

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    In a conversation, slip in that you don't think men can be friends with women without trying to win them over.
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    I just bypass the friend zone completely. Either a girl wants to be lovers...or I want nothing to do with her. I don't keep them around as 'platonic friends'. It's ok to be friends and lovers all in one, but never just friends....unless you truly have no sexual attraction towards the girl.

    If a girl doesn't want to hook up with me as lovers, there's a 99.9% chance she'll never see or hear from me again.

    You've got to make this clear to them, and so you're either in the 'lovers zone' or the 'I want nothing more to do with you' zone, and never in that purgatory place of 'just friends' when secretly you want something more.
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    as a girl I'd say "friend-zoned" is non existant, considering more successful relationships probably start of as friendships.

    Motto: Love is like friendship on fire.

    Advice to take it to the next step? Tell her. Be yourself. If you're not a flirt. Well, don't flirt. But I can probably say on behalf of most girls, I'd rather be told out right that a friend of mine liked me than them going all randomly flirty/weird on me.
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    Why don't you just concentrate on this girl you'd like to know better. If you've been speaking to her for a while now, there's a chance she may feel the same way. You only live once so you may as well ask her to hang out with you, go for a drink or something - what's the worst that can happen? Is there a chance she may already know how you feel about her? Has she picked up on any hints or has a mutual friend mentioned it?
    If you don't go for it, you'll end up wondering "What if?" and regretting it.
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    (Original post by Neil_K)
    It's a sign of how confused people in society are when they think they have to resorts to games, lies, manipulation, dishonesty etc to meet, date and have sex with the opposite sex. Most of the people on TSR are no exception.

    I'm all about honesty, trust and respect. In the long run, you'll do better with dating and relationships if you go by honesty, trust and respect rather than lies, games, manipulation etc.



    At first you've got to force yourself to get out of the house and approach some girls. There is no 'magic secret'....you've just got to go out there and start approaching girls. Slowly but surely you will build your confidence up.



    You don't have to change who you are fundamentally. You don't need to become someone you're not. That is why I dislike all the PUA stuff, because it teaches men to develop false 'PUA persona' instead of just being their true selves. What you have to do is simply be who you truly are, but not hide you sexual interest in girls.

    The street and other everyday situations are fantastic for meeting girls. I'd recommend them!



    On a typical night out to a club, I might talk to 5, 10, 15 or 20 girls...I don't count and I don't have a specific number of women in mind when I go out. I simply approach as many girls I'm attracted to and let them know my intentions in the most direct and honest manner....and I see who's interested in me/who is not.

    That said, I rarely go to bars and clubs these days. I prefer daytime approaches, since I don't drink any more and I'm not as into the whole bar/club scene. I prefer to meet girls in the daytime when they're sober and I can get to know the true them rather than fake club persona they're putting on.



    In the daytime, generally I approach girls who are either by themselves or in twos. See, women act differently when they're around their friends....a guy could approach a girl and she could be interested in him, but if she's around her friends and worried how they might react, she might 'reject' that guy for no other reason than she cares too much what her friends think.

    On the other hand, that same girl could act totally differently towards you when alone or with one other friend.

    At night in bars and clubs, you're correct that girls tend to go out in groups in a lot of case. You can still approach a girl even if she's part of a group in bar or club. Just get her attention, then say what you've got to say to her. And a lot of the time girls will split up from their group anyway and have a wander round the club....so there are plenty of opportunities to approach them on their own or when they're with no more than 1 other friend.



    It's very rare I go out with other guys if I am looking for to meet girls. Very few of my male friends are on the same wavelength as me when it comes to meeting and dating women, and as much as they are great guys, they are a hindrance to me when it comes to meeting women.

    If I go to a bar or club, or if I go out in the daytime to a shopping mall etc, I don't want to be stood around talking to my male friends...I want to be approaching and meeting women, and I want to keep focused on that with no distractions.

    That said, I do have a couple of friends in different parts of the UK who understand this whole direct/Mode One philosophy of meeting women and we occasionally go out together to meet women. They are cool guys and the only ones who are on my wavelength when it comes to approaching women. But 99% of the time I work alone.

    Also, a confident guy doesn't need to be surrounded by an entourage of friends in order to meet women. My advice to you is always work alone.



    Your only goal should be to go out and approach all girls you're attracted to and let them know honestly that you find them attractive, and let them know what you are looking for from them. The results will take care of themselves.

    In fact, for the next 2 weeks, approach 5 girls a day. That's 70 girls you'll have approached by the end of the 2 weeks. If you can stick to this, you'll definitely be over your fears of women by the end of the 2 weeks. Start as of tomorrow....no excuses! Go to your local town or city centre or shopping mall or go to a nightclub, I don't care....but just make sure you approach 5 girls a day for the next 2 weeks. You'll get this down no problem if you can do that.



    I can understand what it must be like to be frustrated about this. Eventually, you'll get to the point where you'll realise dating and sex are not the be all and end all of life and you'll calm down and stop caring about 'getting girls' so much. That's the stage I've personally reached. And ironically, when you stop caring about sex so much, women actually want you more.

    You'll get plenty of girls soon enough if you follow my advice.



    Well first of all, don't compare yourself to your friends. Who cares if your mates have slept with more women than you? It means NOTHING. It's not a contest. And you shouldn't base your self-worth or 'manliness' on how many women you have or haven't slept with. It's just sex. They're just women (i.e. just people). You should sleep with women because it's something you and the girl you've met enjoy, and not to impress your mates or look good in their eyes etc. You're not a better person just because you've 'lost your virginity'. Too many people base their self worth on whether they are a 'virgin' or not. It's bull**** really. Nothing changes after you've lost your virginity.

    As for 'opening lines'....the idea behind Mode One is that you don't use any 'per rehearsed' 'opening lines' etc....you simply say WHATEVER IS ON YOUR MIND when you see a girl you are physically attracted to. Just walk over to her and let her know you think she's attractive and that you'd like to get to know her. Make sure you look her in the eyes when you approach, and talk with a clear and loud enough voice. No mumbling, or you'll come across as creepy and under-confident.

    You can also compliment her appearance, her outfit or whatever else about her you like. Then suggest getting together with her sometime to get to know her. See what she says. If she seems interested, give her your number and tell her to call you when she's not busy and if she fancies getting together.

    Don't take a girl's number unless she offers it to you. You want girls to have to call you, thereby putting you in the power position and leaving you with the upper hand when they call you.

    So in summary....just approach whoever you like the look of, any time, any place...let them know you're attracted to them in the most honest, charming and direct manner, and suggest meeting up with them so you can get to know each other. Give the girl a way to contact you so if she's interested then she can get in touch with you. The girls who are interested WILL call.

    Once a girl calls you, keep the conversation brief, arrange to meet up with her for a cup of coffee or a drink in a quiet bar. Get to know each other, let her know what you're looking for, then get her back to your place (or go to her place) and have sex with her.

    For bars and clubs, if you want a girl to take home the same night, then you can bypass the number bit and just tell them straight that you're looking for a girl for one night of no strings casual sex and then ask her if she's interested. Ask her what she's up to later in the night and suggest going back to yours or her place later. Tell her to come and find you later in the night if she's interested. You can also give her your number so she's got a way to get in touch with you later in the night if she can't find you. Then basically later in the night you get together with them again and take them back to yours or their place to have sex.

    This has worked fine for me in the past...the bold, straight up approach turns girls on (the ones who think you're attractive anyway) and if they're interested they WILL seek you out later in the night. No beating around the bush, just be honest with girls in bars and clubs that you think they're attractive and tell them what you're looking for and then see who's interested/who isn't.



    You need to come out of your shell more and as I said it's not about changing who you are fundamentally, you just need to be a more confident version of yourself.

    If you can start walking up to 5 women a day for the next couple of weeks and just let them all know you think they're attractive and that you're interested in getting to know them, and suggest getting together with them, you'll be over your fears in no time. And you'll probably get a few dates here and there too.

    Another thing....if all you want from a girl is just sex, SAY SO. Don't hide your intentions. Just be honest. A lot of girls will appreciate the honesty, even if they're not interested. And by being straight up and honest, you'll weed out who's interested in you sexually from who isn't without wasting time, money and emotional energy on those girls who aren't genuinely interested.
    Cheers for that man... I will change myself. I am determined. End of day it will only make me a better person and more successful i would imagine too career wise. High confidence often seems to correlate with success from what i have seen. I know losing the virginity etc isn't the be-all-and-end-all, but i just want to move on with my life and not live regrets and have some fun. Frustration at all my friends having sex at least once will get to me but i understand in the future when i'm more confident etc and having lost it it will seem a lot more trivial.

    Couple more qs, what is generally your success rates with who you approach? Do you generally get better averages in a club over approaching on street? And for approaching on the street i would imagine not everyone stops. Do you generally make eye contact and walk up to them and saying a confident greeting? Makes sense i spose... Have you always been mode one too, or in the past have you been mode 2/3/4? Do you imagine general alternative clubs/club nights (general proper clubs with proper music with good dance/dnb djs) are likely to be any different from the mainstream clubs? How do you feel being on your own in clubs/bars too? Surely the people you approach notice this or do they not care?

    I am living just outside a city at the moment, 1 minute walk from the shops, and so i feel i should start when i go back there for Uni in a couple of days! I was just curious on quite a few things hence another question overloads above haha. End of day i imagine it to be really cool when you're into it, and just approaching attractive females but it's getting started which is always the hardest point with everything it seems!

    Cheers again mate.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Cheers for that man... I will change myself. I am determined. End of day it will only make me a better person and more successful i would imagine too career wise. High confidence often seems to correlate with success from what i have seen. I know losing the virginity etc isn't the be-all-and-end-all, but i just want to move on with my life and not live regrets and have some fun. Frustration at all my friends having sex at least once will get to me but i understand in the future when i'm more confident etc and having lost it it will seem a lot more trivial.
    I can understand you being frustrated and wanting to lose your virginity, that's perfectly normal. You'll get there don't worry....

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Couple more qs, what is generally your success rates with who you approach?
    Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, sometimes I get rejected, sometimes I get the girl. That's how this whole 'game' works (I hate the term 'game', but you know what I mean).

    I couldn't put a percentage on mine or anyone else's 'success rate', but what I'll say is I can go out any day of the week either in the daytime or to a bar or club, in any decent sized town or city, and I can approach any girls I like the look of and I can weed out which one's are interested in me from those who aren't. That's the point of Mode 1....it's the fastest and most efficient way to weed out which girls are attracted to you sexually, and which ones aren't.

    I usually do ok whenever I go out and am happy with my success rate over the years, and I'll match my 'game' against anyone. Ultimately, what matters is YOUR success rate, though, so start getting out there and meeting girls!

    My advice to you is simply to get out there and start approaching Mode 1...the results will take care of themselves.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Do you generally get better averages in a club over approaching on street?
    Most of the girls I've pulled in recent years have come from daytime approaches. I've spent more time doing daytime approaches than bar/club approaches in recent years, so obviously I've gotten better averages from daytime approaches.

    You can do well in either environment, though, it just depends which you prefer best.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    And for approaching on the street i would imagine not everyone stops. Do you generally make eye contact and walk up to them and saying a confident greeting?
    Well it's important to look a girl right in the eyes when you first approach her, yes. I don't wait for a girl to give me eye contact or a 'sign' BEFORE I approach generally...though if I'm walking around and I catch a girl 'checking me out' (in the subtle and sneaky way women do), then you can bet your life I'll be straight over there to talk to her. But ordinarily I just walk over to whoever I like the look of, whether they are walking or not, and look her in the eye and just let them know I think they're attractive and I go from there.

    It's easier to make eye contact with a girl before you approach if she's walking towards you in the street, but if she's walking in front of you and all you can see is her backside, you want to get alongside her first.

    No, not everyone stops, but that said, I very rarely get girls brushing me off and not stopping to talk to me these days, because I'm experienced enough to be able to get their attention in the right way.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Makes sense i spose... Have you always been mode one too, or in the past have you been mode 2/3/4?
    No, in the past I have been Mode 2, Mode 3 and Mode 4. I didn't used to be particularly good with women in my teens and early 20s.

    I am, however, almost ALWAYS Mode 1 when I approach a girl I'm attracted to these days!

    Nobody is born good with women....you have to work at it, and in fact most of the guys in history who were really good with women LEARNED this stuff and were not born that way.

    It doesn't matter where you are now....it's only where you want to go that matters. And Mode 1 is your golden ticket out of being bad with women, so start applying it soon as you can.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Do you imagine general alternative clubs/club nights (general proper clubs with proper music with good dance/dnb djs) are likely to be any different from the mainstream clubs?
    I wouldn't think so. When it comes to clubs, I've noticed a few things. There is a difference in general attitude and type of women who you'll meet depending on which night of the week you go out. For example, if you want to meet student girl in the 18 to 22 range approx, go out to a student night on a monday, weds or thurs night. If you want to meet women who are 25-35, or even older, then go out on a friday or saturday night....obviously this makes sense, because the women who go out on the weekends only go out on a friday and saturday night because they're working during the week.

    It can be pretty easy to pull women who are in the 25 to 35 year old age range, particularly if they are single or maybe recently divorced and on the prowl. See, once most women get past 25 and haven't met someone decent yet, they start getting a bit desperate and are easy as pie to pull. Same applies to recently divorced women...they will want to know they're still attractive and desirable to men, so all you have to do is compliment them and talk to them and you're in with these women.

    As for student girls, there's a lot of them who have 'never had a boyfriend' or are still horny virgins and up for some good sex, so you should do ok at the student nights too.

    But as for alternative nights vs mainstream clubs, I've never found any real difference in terms of being able to pull. If anything, I've had less success in alternative type places simply because I would go there for the music rather than to pull. But you can pull in either....the Mode 1 principles apply equally to both.

    The only thing I'd say about clubs is AVOID the trendy, expensive, upmarket clubs with VIP areas and that. These attract a lot of REALLY SHALLOW, superficial type women who will just use you for attention and free drinks but won't put out. Stick to the normal, more down to earth clubs.

    Myself, although I rarely go to nightclubs as much these days, I'd definitely prefer a student night in the week rather than the weekends. There's less trouble, less fights and more of a fun vibe on those nights too.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    How do you feel being on your own in clubs/bars too? Surely the people you approach notice this or do they not care?
    Nobody cares and nobody will even notice if you're on your own. Unless you stand in the corner holding your drink with a miserable look on your face, nobody will know you're there alone.

    And besides, what's so bad about being in a club by yourself? You're there TO MEET PEOPLE (specifically GIRLS) and hopefully get laid, so you don't need to invite all 'the lads' with you.

    I feel perfectly comfortable going to bars and clubs alone. It has NEVER been a problem or an issue for me. Nobody has EVER asked me if I'm out alone or who I'm with etc. Never ever. And if they did, I'd be honest and tell them I'm alone and that I came out tonight to meet a girl to take home with me because I'm horny and want to get laid.

    It really isn't an issue. As long as you are approaching people as soon as you get there and enjoying yourself, nobody will notice or care that you're there alone.

    Plus, after you've been there once alone and approached some girls and maybe made a few guys friends too, the next time you go there you'll bump into some people you met first time round and you'll look like you are the life and soul of the party because people will be talking to and approaching you!

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I am living just outside a city at the moment, 1 minute walk from the shops, and so i feel i should start when i go back there for Uni in a couple of days! I was just curious on quite a few things hence another question overloads above haha. End of day i imagine it to be really cool when you're into it, and just approaching attractive females but it's getting started which is always the hardest point with everything it seems!
    It takes guts and balls to get started....but once you do, you'll never look back. It does actually get quite addictive to go out to meet girls, and the thrill of Mode 1 approaches is quite a buzz.

    It's like jumping out of a plane on a parachuting jump....first time, you're **** scared, but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th times etc you CAN'T WAIT to jump out. Same applies with approaching girls.

    If you need to have a few drinks on your night out before you approach, then by all means do...just don't get too drunk though, just slightly 'oiled'. After a while you'll be able to approach whether you've had a drink or not. Of course, stay sober in the daytime at your local shopping mall though!
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    The general rule is to stay away from women when they are in a bad mood, because most of the time the outcome is either one of two things: you will not make her feel any better and she will then relate those bad feelings to you, or you WILL make her feel better, and all of a sudden you are now her shoulder to cry on... welcome to the friends zone.

    When a chick is being a party pooper, just neg her and leave it at that: "Damn girl you are bumming me out, call me later when you're fun again."

    Put it into your own words, use it, problem solved.
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    (Original post by Neil_K)
    I can understand you being frustrated and wanting to lose your virginity, that's perfectly normal. You'll get there don't worry....



    Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, sometimes I get rejected, sometimes I get the girl. That's how this whole 'game' works (I hate the term 'game', but you know what I mean).

    I couldn't put or percentage on mine or anyone else's 'success rate', but what I'll say is I can go out any day of the week either in the daytime or to a bar or club, in any decent sized town or city, and I can approach any girls I like the look of and I can weed out which one's are interested in me from those who aren't. That's the point of Mode 1....it's the fastest and most efficient way to weed out which girls are attracted to you sexually, and which ones aren't.

    I usually do ok whenever I go out and am happy with my success rate over the years, and I'll match my 'game' against anyone. Ultimately, what matters is YOUR success rate, though, so start getting out there and meeting girls!

    My advice to you is simply to get out there and start approaching Mode 1...the results will take care of themselves.



    Most of the girls I've pulled in recent years have come from daytime approaches. I've spent more time doing daytime approaches than bar/club approaches in recent years, so obviously I've gotten better averages from daytime approaches.

    You can do well in either environment, though, it just depends which you prefer best.



    Well it's important to look a girl right in the eyes when you first approach her, yes. I don't wait for a girl to give me eye contact or a 'sign' BEFORE I approach generally...though if I'm walking around and I catch a girl 'checking me out' (in the subtle and sneaky way women do), then you can bet your life I'll be straight over there to talk to her. But ordinarily I just walk over to whoever I like the look of, whether they are walking or not, and look her in the eye and just let them know I think they're attractive and I go from there.

    It's easier to make eye contact with a girl before you approach if she's walking towards you in the street, but if she's walking in front of you and all you can see is her backside, you want to get alongside her first.

    No, not everyone stops, but that said, I very rarely get girls brushing me off and not stopping to talk to me these days, because I'm experienced enough to be able to get their attention in the right way.



    No, in the past I have been Mode 2, Mode 3 and Mode 4. I didn't used to be particularly good with women in my teens and early 20s.

    I am, however, almost ALWAYS Mode 1 when I approach a girl I'm attracted to these days!

    Nobody is born good with women....you have to work at it, and in fact most of the guys in history who were really good with women LEARNED this stuff and were not born that way.

    It doesn't matter where you are now....it's only where you want to go that matters. And Mode 1 is your golden ticket out of being bad with women, so start applying it soon as you can.



    I wouldn't think so. When it comes to clubs, I've noticed a few things. There is a difference in general attitude and type of women who you'll meet depending on which night of the week you go out. For example, if you want to meet student girl in the 18 to 22 range approx, go out to a student night on a monday, weds or thurs night. If you want to meet women who are 25-35, or even older, then go out on a friday or saturday night....obviously this makes sense, because the women who go out on the weekends only go out on a friday and saturday night because they're working during the week.

    It can be pretty easy to pull women who are in the 25 to 35 year old age range, particularly if they are single or maybe recently divorced and on the prowl. See, once most women get past 25 and haven't met someone decent yet, they start get
    getting a bit desperate and are easy as pie to pull. Same applies to recently divorced women...they will want to know they're still attractive and desirable to men, so all you have to do is compliment them and talk to them and you're in with these women.

    As for student girls, there's a lot of them who have 'never had a boyfriend' or are still horny virgin and up for some good sex, so you should do ok at the student nights too.

    But as for alternative nights vs mainstream clubs, I've never found any real difference in terms of being able to pull. If anything, I've had less success in alternative type places simply because I would go there for the music rather than to pull. But you can pull in either....the Mode 1 principles apply equally to both.

    The only thing I'd say about clubs is AVOID the trendy, expensive, upmarket clubs with VIP areas and that. These attract a lot of REALLY SHALLOW, superficial type women who will just use you for attention and free drinks but won't put out. Stick to the normal, more down to earth clubs.

    Myself, although I rarely go to nightclubs as much these days, I'd definitely prefer a student night in the week rather than the weekends. There's less trouble, less fights and more of a fun vibe on those nights too.



    Nobody cares and nobody will even notice if you're on your own. Unless you stand in the corner holding your drink with a miserable look on your face, nobody will know you're there alone.

    And besides, what's so bad about being in a club by yourself? You're there TO MEET PEOPLE (specifically GIRLS) and hopefully get laid, so you don't need to invite all 'the lads' with you.

    I feel perfectly comfortable going to bars and clubs alone. It has NEVER been a problem or an issue for me. Nobody has EVER asked me if I'm out alone or who I'm with etc. Never ever. And if they did, I'd be honest and tell them I'm alone and that I came out tonight to meet a girl to take home with me because I'm horny and want to get laid.

    It really isn't an issue. As long as you are approaching people as soon as you get in and enjoying yourself, nobody will notice or care that you're there alone.

    Plus, after you've been there once alone and approached some girls and maybe made a few guys friends too, the next time you go there you'll bump into some people you met first time round and you'll look you are the life and soul of the party because people will be talking to and approaching you!



    It takes guts and balls to get started....but once you do, you'll never look back. It does actually get quite addictive to go out to meet girls, and the thrill of Mode 1 approaches is quite a buzz.

    It's like jumping out of a plane on a parachuting jump....first time, you're **** scared, but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th times etc you CAN'T WAIT to jump out. Same applies with approaching girls.

    If you need to have a few drinks on your night out before you approach, then by all means do...just don't get too drunk though, just slightly 'oiled'. After a while you'll be able to approach whether you've had a drink or not. Of course, stay sober in the daytime at your local shopping mall though!
    Good Advise

    Hey you into PUA?
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    (Original post by Fresh_Azimiz)
    Good Advise

    Hey you into PUA?
    Well I never refer to myself as a 'pickup artist' and I don't class myself as part of the 'seduction community' as such. I prefer to apply Alan Roger Currie's 'Mode One' philosophy of approaching women by being honest, direct and by being myself...rather than using a bunch of pickup techniques, tactics, routines etc.

    But each to their own :-)
 
 
 
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