White, middle-class rock buffs... Here's some hip-hop you'll enjoy... Watch

metalthrashin'mad
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#21
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#21
(Original post by spazman21)
An incoherent tired rant, but, nonetheless, a very intelligent one.

Regarding the bit in bold, I think it'd depend on the artist. Take, for example, Gil Scott-Heron: he's probably most famous for his political lyrics, which showed tremendous awareness and perceptiveness (listen to Johannesburg). Lyrics in hip-hop are, in fact, one of the most important aspects of the genre- that's why the "beats" are often repetitive: it puts lyrics at the forefront of the music. Also, the "beats" are often meticulously put together and are extensively sampled.

Drum and Bass is built on the Amen Break which originated from Hip-Hop's extensive sampling of the break. However, repetitiveness often makes for a great genre - take punk: it was synonymous with the angry, disenchanted 80's youth, who wanted nothing more than a repetitive, simple, short and sweet diatribe.
True, I think if it wasn't for his lyrics I wouldn't like Bob Dylan as much as I do, as his voice really isn't great, and his guitaring is fairly simplistic and I HATE the harmonica, all his songs could be improved tenfold without the harmonica.

Fair enough, I completely understand that the lyrics are the main focus of rap/hip -hop, but for me that's just not how I like my music, I prefer instruments.

With repetition I find it somewhat difficult to work out where I stand. With lyrics it's the worst, and with just the same beat over and over again it just gets on my nerves, like how an annoying noise gets more annoying the more you listen to it, but then again i like to listen to minimalist music like Drone or electronic/ambient stuff, yet that is fairly repetitive. I guess its just a lot slower, rather than hearing the same very quick beat a hundred times you are hearing something maybe ten times in the same timeframe so it doesn't annoy me. And with that sort of thing, especially Tomhet and Rundgang by Burzum, and Phase 3 by Porcupine Tree I just find it hypnotic and mesmerising, I guess it depends on how the repetition is used really, for hypnotic effect I really like it but not for much else. Minimalism ftw. (even though I don't know a great deal of artists, just not sure where to start)

Listened to the tracks btw, wrote about them in other edited post
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spazman21
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#22
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#22
(Original post by LabyrinthWonder)
Oh dear me, are we not free anymore from a world that continues to judge and dictate other peoples taste in music?!?

I can't stand it when people try to justify their taste/passion for a certain type of music they love. Its more than just rhythms and a beat, its also how you connect with it.

OP: Personally, its not my cup of tea at all. And calling the thread: "White, middle-class rock buffs..." ---REALLY???

Ermm.... The underlying point of this thread (if you had read the previous posts) is that people should be more open-minded about music. I just wanted to expose to people that hip-hip and rap shouldn't be catergorised as mindless banality or musically incompetent.

As for the thread title, I directed it at these people because I felt that these people tend to be most snobbish and allow genre to dictate what they listen to, when other aspects, such as lyricism, melody, composition arrangement, originality, creativity etc. are what's most important.
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Fumblenuts91
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#23
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#23
Listen to Aesop Rock instead.
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metalthrashin'mad
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#24
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#24
(Original post by LabyrinthWonder)
Oh dear me, are we not free anymore from a world that continues to judge and dictate other peoples taste in music?!?

I can't stand it when people try to justify their taste/passion for a certain type of music they love. Its more than just rhythms and a beat, its also how you connect with it.

OP: Personally, its not my cup of tea at all. And calling the thread: "White, middle-class rock buffs..." ---REALLY???
I think he is just trying to get people to be a bit more open minded, and dispel a stereotype that all rap lyrics are just based on women, drugs violence and money. In the same way I made a thread a while back to show that not all metal is screaming (in which I got extremely deserved comments of hypocrite by creating a troll thread ****ging off dubstep, I shouldn't have done that, it just showed closemindedness and ignorance, which is something I really try to get away from in music, I was just annoyed and felt like being a ****)

Anyway back to the point this guy knows a lot about music, and he is not instructing people that they HAVE to listen to this kind of music, just show that it's different to the common perceptions of the genre. My perception until about 6 months ago was that electronic stuff was all crap, and then when I actually listened to school of seven bells a shoegaze band with electronic elements I realized it can actually be really good and have a got into a fair amount of bands. Sort of since then really I have tried to be more open minded.
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Ano1
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#25
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#25
at least post something good.. not saying de la soul arent, but those arent the best options to "sell hip hop" to a different demographic to yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQTLDEgM9yI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1i6QfsMUug

:rolleyes:
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Hot Sauce
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#26
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#26
Reminds me of playing Grand Theft Auto. I actually like De La Soul. I have their album on tape.
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Reformed2010
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#27
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#27
I'm Black British with Afro-Caribbean heritage.

I hated the video, It gave me flashbacks of fresh prince bel air and saved by the bell. The 90's were great, but let them lay at peace!

She said your moving with your uncle and auntie in...

Oh and you want people to be open minded to hip-hop yet just read your thread title twice more. Clearly open minded to rock. Totally.
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Kikiyo
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#28
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#28
Wow this failed on so many levels :facepalm2:
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mc1000
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#29
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#29
(Original post by spazman21)
Robert Christgau, the dean of American rock critics, gave the album 3 feet high and rising (their debut) an A- (Christgau is a hard man to please) and said it's "unlike any rap album you or anybody else has ever heard."

He was one of the first rock critics to see the importance and brilliance of this revolutionary genre. If you could put whatever prejudices of hip-hop you have to one side, you'd be benefiting greatly from a broadened musical sense of perspective.

Sometimes I think people are too narrow-minded....


This album is regarded as the greatest metal album ever made, receiving no less than 5* from any competent reviewer. Does this automatically make it sound amazing to someone who loves cheesy dance music?



Likewise, this album is regarded as a revolutionary album and a high water mark within its specific genre (progressive metal).

It's positively reviewed across the board.

Does this mean that it's guaranteed to appeal to all fans of RnB? I think not.



This song is regarded as a classic. Does this mean I like it? No. I can appreciate that it's a classic, but to my ears it sounds sh*t.

Same goes for the stuff you posted.

Simply put, your argument is flawed. you can't play the "but it's praised by critics" card if you're playing against someone who just doesn't like the genre.
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Danny.
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#30
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#30
Not a fan at all.
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metalthrashin'mad
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#31
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#31
(Original post by mc1000)


This album is regarded as the greatest metal album ever made, receiving no less than 5* from any competent reviewer. Does this automatically make it sound amazing to someone who loves cheesy dance music?
It doesn't mean fans of thrash metal will like it in the slightest either.
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mc1000
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#32
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#32
(Original post by metalthrashin'mad)
It doesn't mean fans of thrash metal will like it in the slightest either.
Heh.

No... but most thrash fans do like it.

...even if it's overrated compared to certain lesser-known thrash albums which are far better *cough*Rust in Peace*cough*.
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metalthrashin'mad
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#33
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#33
(Original post by mc1000)
Heh.

No... but most thrash fans do like it.

...even if it's overrated compared to certain lesser-known thrash albums which are far better *cough*Rust in Peace*cough*.
Hell awaits, rust in peace, and most kreator and sodom. TBH I'm more of a death metal than a thrash metal fan.
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mc1000
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#34
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#34
(Original post by metalthrashin'mad)
Hell awaits, rust in peace, and most kreator and sodom. TBH I'm more of a death metal than a thrash metal fan.
Tbh, I barely know any thrash - just Metallica, Megadeth and Slayer really - the latter whom no-one seems to like, yet are still somehow counted above Megadeth in the Big 4 Sonisphere lineup... :/

That said, I've listened to some Testament - which I thought was decent; and also I was impressed by Sodom's latest album, even though I've never heard any more of their stuff.

Death metal - does this mean you like Opeth? Or is that too progressive?
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metalthrashin'mad
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#35
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#35
(Original post by mc1000)
Tbh, I barely know any thrash - just Metallica, Megadeth and Slayer really - the latter whom no-one seems to like, yet are still somehow counted above Megadeth in the Big 4 Sonisphere lineup... :/

That said, I've listened to some Testament - which I thought was decent; and also I was impressed by Sodom's latest album, even though I've never heard any more of their stuff.

Death metal - does this mean you like Opeth? Or is that too progressive?
I should probably try out some Testament, and Slayer are well loved by tons of people, they can almost be credited as one of the biggest influences on early death metal along with possessed and death. A lot of people say they went rubbish after seasons in the abyss, but I genuinely like everything they have done, and they were one of my favourite bands when I saw them live.

As for Opeth they are pretty good, but too progressive for me I think, I appreciate that they are really good, and I'll listen to 3 or 4 songs in a row and really enjoy it, but more than that and I just tend to get bored, I am the same with most prog really, it seems I only really like porcupine tree and pink floyd, who I consider more of a psychedelic rock band anyway. As for dream theater I don't really like them much at all, yet somehow they have over 100 plays on my last fm. I love their cover of Queen - tenement funster/flick of the wrist/lily of the valley though, but I wouldn't say I'm a fan. Do you know much death metal? I can give you a list of some stuff I like if you want.
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mc1000
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#36
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#36
(Original post by metalthrashin'mad)
I should probably try out some Testament, and Slayer are well loved by tons of people, they can almost be credited as one of the biggest influences on early death metal along with possessed and death. A lot of people say they went rubbish after seasons in the abyss, but I genuinely like everything they have done, and they were one of my favourite bands when I saw them live.

As for Opeth they are pretty good, but too progressive for me I think, I appreciate that they are really good, and I'll listen to 3 or 4 songs in a row and really enjoy it, but more than that and I just tend to get bored, I am the same with most prog really, it seems I only really like porcupine tree and pink floyd, who I consider more of a psychedelic rock band anyway. As for dream theater I don't really like them much at all, yet somehow they have over 100 plays on my last fm. I love their cover of Queen - tenement funster/flick of the wrist/lily of the valley though, but I wouldn't say I'm a fan. Do you know much death metal? I can give you a list of some stuff I like if you want.
Barely any. I love Opeth... they're my favourite band, but I'm more a prog fan than a death metal fan, so that's probably why.

I like Bloodbath however, and Behemoth. Not to mention a fair bit of Dan Swano's stuff - eg. Edge of Sanity. Some melodeath as well; Scar Symmetry and Dark Tranquility come to mind...

Can't be doing with most brutal death metal though, where the growl is so low that you can barely hear it, let alone any of the lyrics...

But yeah, give me a few bands to listen to and I'll look them up on Spotify.

Also - if you like Pink Floyd's more psychedelic sound, you should listen to The Flower Kings. Modern band with a nice psychedelic prog sound.
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metalthrashin'mad
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#37
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#37
(Original post by mc1000)
Barely any. I love Opeth... they're my favourite band, but I'm more a prog fan than a death metal fan, so that's probably why.

I like Bloodbath however, and Behemoth. Not to mention a fair bit of Dan Swano's stuff - eg. Edge of Sanity. Some melodeath as well; Scar Symmetry and Dark Tranquility come to mind...

Can't be doing with most brutal death metal though, where the growl is so low that you can barely hear it, let alone any of the lyrics...

But yeah, give me a few bands to listen to and I'll look them up on Spotify.

Also - if you like Pink Floyd's more psychedelic sound, you should listen to The Flower Kings. Modern band with a nice psychedelic prog sound.
cool I'll do that. I don't really like brutal DM very much either, other than suffocation.

Dismember, Grave, Nihilist, Nirvana 2002, Unleashed, Merciless, Entombed Swedish death metal - bloodbath are pretty much a tribute to that kind of sound.

American stuff: Autopsy, death, master, malevolent creation, morbid angel (not the biggest fan), suffocation, deicide, immolation, nile, vital remains, necrophagia, funebrarum, obituary, dying fetus, atheist, cynic

other nations: the chasm, asphyx, pestilence, god dethroned, bolt thrower, Akercocke

melodic death metal - at the gates, dark lunacy, amon amarth, eucharist, arsis
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Einheri
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#38
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#38
I didn't like it. Reminds me of Will Smith's terrible rapping.
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Reformed2010
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Einheri)
I didn't like it. Reminds me of Will Smith's terrible rapping.
Snap.
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Arekkusu
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#40
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#40
(Original post by metalthrashin'mad)
Really? I can see how it would make it more accessible, but more original? Both slayer and Gorogoroth have satanic lyrics in a fair amount of their songs but they don't sound anything alike, and seem more original than something with extremely similar music and a different lyrical theme. There are only really several ways to convey lyrics (singing, rapping, growling, screaming, whatever) but so so many ways of making music instrumentally. Then again there can be so many different themes for lyrics. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but lyrics are just one entity, whereas the music can be a massive range of instruments and voices which is why I feel this is more of a scope for originality
I was getting at the idea that if the lyrics are (thematically) complicated and multi-layered, it's more accessible than if it's the music that's complicated and multi-layered (because most people have had emotions).

And there are only a few ways to convey lyrics, but lyric delivery - emphasising certain lyrics at a certain point in the music - is as complicated as you want it to be, just like when you play bass you can accentuate certain chords in infinitely complicated ways.
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