Will you be voting Yes or No in the Welsh Assembly referendum (March 3rd)? Watch

Poll: Will you be voting Yes or No in the Welsh Assembly referendum (March 3rd)?
Yes (14)
35.9%
No (7)
17.95%
Undecided (0)
0%
Don't care/I am not Welsh (18)
46.15%
Lewis :D
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#21
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#21
Btw guys, does this mean it's actually a Parliament now?
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Curzon
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Lewis :D)
Btw guys, does this mean it's actually a Parliament now?
Yes, it can pass laws autonomously now. Wales still doesn't have the same extent of power that Scotland and NI have though, we are still part of the same legal system as England among some other stuff. Hopefully that will change.
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Kaiser MacCleg
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#23
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#23
Does it mean it gets the name, though? I have a feeling it'll still be referred to as an "assembly" just as a concession to those few reactionaries who want it abolished, just as the executive is referred to as the "Welsh Assembly Government" because a small few couldn't cope with the idea of a "Welsh Government".
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Curzon
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#24
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#24
"Assembly, "Parliament", doesn't matter what it's called... the Northern Irish government is called an "assembly" too.
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Renner
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#25
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#25
Slippery slope to independance.

Although as long as Westminster still has the power to abolish it, I dont care. Although I am against Wales having a seperate legal and education system like Scotland and NI, they've been the same as England for about 500 years.
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Kaiser MacCleg
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Renner)
Slippery slope to independance.
Ugh. :rolleyes:

In whose lifetime?
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Renner
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Kaiser MacCleg)
Ugh. :rolleyes:

In whose lifetime?
Its a very gentle slope...
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Craig_D
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Curzon)
Yes, it can pass laws autonomously now. Wales still doesn't have the same extent of power that Scotland and NI have though, we are still part of the same legal system as England among some other stuff. Hopefully that will change.
Why?
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Curzon
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Craig_D)
Why?
I want to see a federal UK and a Wales with as much autonomy as it can get. I want independence, but Plaid have yet to convince me how we could manage things financially. Being part of the UK has unfortunately reduced Wales to one of the poorest regions in Europe, nothing to do about that now though.

(Original post by Renner)
Although as long as Westminster still has the power to abolish it, I dont care. Although I am against Wales having a seperate legal and education system like Scotland and NI, they've been the same as England for about 500 years.
The Welsh might have been a conquered people since 1282, but we're still here and if we want a separate government and legal/education systems and you don't like it, well frankly you can bugger off.
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Lewis :D
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Renner)
Slippery slope to independance.

Although as long as Westminster still has the power to abolish it, I dont care. Although I am against Wales having a seperate legal and education system like Scotland and NI, they've been the same as England for about 500 years.
You're not even Welsh, so it has nothing to do with you. The vote on the referendum was pretty conclusive yesterday when only 1 country out of 22 votes No, and there was only 320 votes in it!
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WelshBluebird
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Renner)
Slippery slope to independance.
How on earth is it a slippery slope to independence?
In terms of that debate, nothing has changed.
Most people in Wales are hugely against it, and in any case, we still only have power in the devolved areas (it wasn't really about having "more" powers).

(Original post by Curzon)
The Welsh might have been a conquered people since 1282, but we're still here.
Er gwaetha pawb a phopeth, Ry'n ni yma o hyd.
Beautiful song, and so true
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Renner
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Curzon)
The Welsh might have been a conquered people since 1282, but we're still here and if we want a separate government and legal/education systems and you don't like it, well frankly you can bugger off.
The English conquered the Welsh people in 1282, and we're still there. You want independence but you arn't going to get it so frankly, its you who can bugger off.

I jest, I really dont care about all the petty home nations nationalism. I'm British, not English, Scottish or Welsh and don't see parts of my country breaking away as a good thing.

There is no reason, in law or logic, for Wales to have a separate legal/education system. Scotland has the Act of Union to support there system, Wales has no such thing. England and Wales are the same country in all but name when it comes to law and education and have been for so long that what is the point in changing it?

The Kingdom of Northumbria was subdued by other powers, yet anybody calling for a seperate nation now is crackers. I apply the same logic to Welsh nationalists
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Curzon
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Renner)
There is no reason, in law or logic, for Wales to have a separate legal/education system. Scotland has the Act of Union to support there system, Wales has no such thing. England and Wales are the same country in all but name when it comes to law and education and have been for so long that what is the point in changing it?

The Kingdom of Northumbria was subdued by other powers, yet anybody calling for a seperate nation now is crackers. I apply the same logic to Welsh nationalists
I want Wales to have a separate system because as I said above, I want a federal UK with Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland conducting their own affairs, and I'm not particularly alone in this view either.

Northumbria was an English kingdom of English people. Wales was also made up of separate kingdoms, or principalities more correctly, in those times. They had a separate language, separate customs, separate laws (which were mostly unanimous across the principalities). The Welsh and English are a separate people, whereas the Northumbrians were English so it's not really a valid comparison is it.
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Kaiser MacCleg
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Renner)
There is no reason, in law or logic, for Wales to have a separate legal/education system. Scotland has the Act of Union to support there system, Wales has no such thing. England and Wales are the same country in all but name when it comes to law and education and have been for so long that what is the point in changing it?
I take it in that saying "England and Wales are the same country in all but name" you are referring to the fact that Wales was annexed by England? Well, it was, but as you can see, the acts which annexed Wales to England have been repealed. Wales is not part of England, legally or in any other sense. Wales is a constituent country of the UK, of fully equal status with Scotland, England and NI. You're a bit behind the times in demanding Wales and England have exactly the same legal and education systems; there have been laws treating Wales as distinct since 1881 with the Sunday Closing Act, and by now there is a host of legislation, passed both by Westminster and the Assembly, that acknowledges Wales as a unique case within the union. We still use the same criminal law as England, which is the only reason the "England and Wales" jurisdiction still exists, and that shows no signs of changing in the immediate future.

Education also works differently in Wales - it is compulsory for all pupils in Wales to have been at least acquainted with another language -Welsh- and by now over a quarter of kids in Wales go through Welsh medium education. No problem with that. Its our language, after all, even if only some of us speak it. There are more recent developments, too - the foundation phase in primary education being the biggie.

So, in arguing for the status quo, you're actually arguing for a situation, in both law and education, where Wales and England are clearly distinct. Fine by me.

(Original post by Renner)
The Kingdom of Northumbria was subdued by other powers, yet anybody calling for a seperate nation now is crackers. I apply the same logic to Welsh nationalists
Northumbria was never a nation. It was a state whose people were part of the English nation. Wales was and is a nation.
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L i b
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Curzon)
This is the first time that Welsh laws will be passed exclusively by a native Welsh body since Glyndwr's parliament in the first decade of the 15th century! And even before then the last time was in the late 13th century before Wales was conquered. An exciting thought
I suppose you'd have to count the Queen as a native Welsh body too, as she is essentially one component of the Welsh devolved legislature.

(Original post by Curzon)
"Assembly, "Parliament", doesn't matter what it's called... the Northern Irish government is called an "assembly" too.
Agreed. In many ways, the Northern Ireland Assembly is more powerful than the Scottish Parliament. The name is irrelevant really, and the Scottish Parliament is still grouped in the 'the devolved assemblies' anyway.

(Original post by Lewis :D)
You're not even Welsh, so it has nothing to do with you. The vote on the referendum was pretty conclusive yesterday when only 1 country out of 22 votes No, and there was only 320 votes in it!
Yes it is. He is British, and constitutional matters are reserved to the British Parliament.

(Original post by Kaiser MacCleg)
Wales is a constituent country of the UK, of fully equal status with Scotland, England and NI.
None of these areas are really equal - they've all been devolved asymmetrically and their institutions have completely different powers and compositions.

Northumbria was never a nation. It was a state whose people were part of the English nation. Wales was and is a nation.
Northumbria existed long before any concept of England did.
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Kaiser MacCleg
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#36
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#36
(Original post by L i b)
None of these areas are really equal - they've all been devolved asymmetrically and their institutions have completely different powers and compositions.
Yes, the Welsh Assembly is not the equal of the Scottish Parliament - redressing that balance part-way is what this referendum is about. The Welsh Assembly is not Wales, though, and Wales, in theory at least, has equal status with Scotland as a country of the UK. The same applies to England, despite its lack of a devolved legislature.

(Original post by L i b)
Northumbria existed long before any concept of England did.
But not before the Anglo-Saxons did.
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Curzon
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#37
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#37
(Original post by L i b)
I suppose you'd have to count the Queen as a native Welsh body too, as she is essentially one component of the Welsh devolved legislature.
Well, no... she's not Welsh. I mean laws being passed in Wales by Welsh people, of course they have been now for a while but the yes vote means that there is no longer any outside interference from the UK government.
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Renner
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#38
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#38
Northumbria ran from the Firth of Forth to the Humber, so even if the concept of Englishness did exist back then it doesnt really apply.
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Kaiser MacCleg
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#39
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#39
So why bring it up?

EDIT: Unless you mean it is the idea of Englishness that doesn't apply to Northumbria, rather than Northumbria to Wales? That of course is true to an extent, and I did simplify in my reply. Northumbria was first forged as a union between the Anglian kingdoms of Deira and Bernicia, but extended over areas - Lothian in Scotland, the Pennines and Lancashire in England - whose people were predominantly Brythonic. But then that just backs up my point: Northumbria wasn't a nation. Wales was and is.
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