US vetoes settlement resolution Watch

Aeolus
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#21
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#21
(Original post by JakePearson)
The USA is a society based on property rights.

:rofl: This is hilarious. It's either intentionally simplistic or intellectually dishonest. The USA is a society based on many, many things that directly contradict their actions here.

The five or so European societies are also based on property rights. Why did they oppose the illegal settlements?
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Organ
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#22
(Original post by JakePearson)
As I just said it strengthens their close ally in a geopolitically strategic region.
You haven't actually said what is derived. It generates at best a sense of distrust from around a billion people towards the USA (at worse real, real hatred) - what tangiable benefits does Joe American get from financially and politically supporting Israel above and beyond reasonable diplomacy.?

By the way, do you oppose US aid to Saudi Arabia as vociferously as you do aid to Israel?
I would imagine so, I don't know much about american aid to Saudi (I know it isn't as much as what is given to Israel) but if it's going to the house of saud then yes.
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Rhadamanthus
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#23
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(Original post by Aeolus)
:rofl: In the loosest sense of course.
Well yes, I don't think it's the ideal society in terms of property rights but it is better than most other countries, especially the Arab nations which proposed this resolution.
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Mujeriego
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#24
(Original post by JakePearson)
Of course. But the Arab world are not always right either and may be wrong in proposing this resolution? Surely using your logic that is possible. I'm aware of the consequenes of the USA's actions here but it is a country governed by a democratic mandate and what the people say often goes. This isn't to say it is morally right though. My own opinion is that vetoing this is good in theory but not in practise.

It is possible but it is not true on this occasion. The Arab and European world are not proposing this resolution out of ignorance or just because they have the ability in being the majority. It is clear as daylight that US-backed expansionism is detrimental to Palestinian livelihood first and Israeli survival second. It's an own goal.
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Rhadamanthus
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#25
(Original post by Organ)
You haven't actually said what is derived. It generates at best a sense of distrust from around a billion people towards the USA - what tangiable benefits does Joe American get from financially and politically supporting Israel above and beyond reasonable diplomacy.?
I made a post here a few hours ago detailing why Middle Eastern hatred of the West is most definitely not derived from US foreign policy. As I say, the US by funding Israel is seeking a partner in this region in order to spread its influence.
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Rhadamanthus
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Mujeriego)
It is possible but it is not true on this occasion. The Arab and European world are not proposing this resolution out of ignorance or just because they have the ability in being the majority. It is clear as daylight that US-backed expansionism is detrimental to Palestinian livelihood first and Israeli survival second. It's an own goal.
You do know that all settlement building which takes place is constrained to the areas assigned to Israel's control - i.e. Area B and Area C in the West Bank? These areas were agreed upon by the Palestinian leadership themselves in the Oslo Accords.
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Einheri
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#27
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#27
O N03z 1Ts tha JEWZ!!!1
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Organ
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#28
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#28
(Original post by JakePearson)
I made a post here a few hours ago detailing why Middle Eastern hatred of the West is most definitely not derived from US foreign policy. As I say, the US by funding Israel is seeking a partner in this region in order to spread its influence.
That's an interesting post and not one that I wholly disagree with. American support for Israel - particularly regards issues like the illegal construction of settlements and cast iron lead does generate anger in almost every branch of the muslim world - as does the fact that Israel is the largest recipient of US aid after Iraq - despite being a highly developed nation (http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/31987.pdf).

I really do struggle to think of any tangiable measurable advantages of supporting Israel - it's hardly a useful ally given the fact it's such an isolated country with no other close allies bar the USA.
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jakemittle
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Mujeriego)
Weren't the AIPAC or ZOA looking to make criticism of Israel illegal in the States as a result of anti-Zionist campus protests?
Really?...source?
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jakemittle
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#30
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#30
(Original post by JakePearson)
I don't care what you think of the American public, but the Christian Right have far more influence than this supposed "Jewish lobby" and you'll find it is the Christians who wish to continue funding Israel. No point attacking me: I'm against excessive aid to Israel as much as you seem to be. The US has considerable reason to keep ties with Israel though - an ally in such a stragetic position helps America more than it harms them.
This is very true, although Jake you have to admit that there is a powerful Jewish lobby in America.
Also what strategic position are you talking about?...I believe that there are no bases in Israel...the US has Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia etc..so what strategic position does Israel offer that the other states do not?
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ma3eeni
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#31
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#31
(Original post by JakePearson)
You do know that all settlement building which takes place is constrained to the areas assigned to Israel's control - i.e. Area B and Area C in the West Bank? These areas were agreed upon by the Palestinian leadership themselves in the Oslo Accords.
Assigned for their control, as a safety measure to protect Israelis and offer some (although extremely limited) autonomy for the Palestinians. Not for Israelis to build on and basically annex.
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Made in the USA
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Organ)
Really? I am curious, how does it help the national interest of the United States?
Lots of different ways. Israel and the US have teamed up on counter-terrorism measures. The two countries cooperate in information sharing, training, investigations, R&D and policymaking. There is close Israeli-American cooperation on Homeland Security, with officials regularly meeting in both countries to study new ideas and techniques regarding intelligence gathering and threat prevention. Both countries share with one another intelligence on covert espionage operations.
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lumberjack77
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#33
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#33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA-mMA18dXU
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lumberjack77
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#34
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#34
I would be ashamed to be a yank right now over that UN vote.
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Joinedup
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#35
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#35
That's david duke you just linked to... Formerly known as Ku Klux Klan grand wizard David Duke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_duke

His opposition to Obama isn't just down to UNSC vetos and his hatred of Israel isn't merely out of love for Palestinians.
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lumberjack77
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Joinedup)
That's david duke you just linked to... Formerly known as Ku Klux Klan grand wizard David Duke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_duke

His opposition to Obama isn't just down to UNSC vetos and his hatred of Israel isn't merely out of love for Palestinians.
Looking him up on you tube at the min, says he was KKK over 30 years ago though:

Wolf Blitzer versus David Duke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2QMQi-m63E

He even went to Iran lol He hangs about with Nick Griffin FFS

http://usa.altermedia.info/images/DSC00028.jpg
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leeber
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#37
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#37
Oh David Duke, the voice of reason.

*sarcasm*
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B-Man.
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#38
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#38
LOL Never, ever, ever post a video of David Duke. He may seem to have left his racist past behind but there will always be doubt of his intentions.
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lumberjack77
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#39
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#39
(Original post by B-Man.)
LOL Never, ever, ever post a video of David Duke. He may seem to have left his racist past behind but there will always be doubt of his intentions.
I believe in free speech and debate:eek:
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B-Man.
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#40
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#40
(Original post by lumberjack77)
I believe in free speech and debate:eek:
Yes but people dismiss his videos without even watching them so posting his videos are rendered pointless.
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