Am I the only one who finds many LGBT people to to highly annoying hypocritical? Watch

donuticus
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Moleymann)
An example of such "two-faced"ness?
Gay only bars.

I live in Soho and on several occasions have been refused entry to certain nightclubs because I am not gay. Imagine the uproar if a gay person was told he wasn't welcome in a bar because he was gay.

People either want equality for all or they don't. I quite frankly don't care where or in whom you stick your bits it is of no concern to me but don't chant the mantra of equality when in some cases that is clearly not what is wanted.

A small minority of gay people scream discrimination when they want one thing but would seek to deny that equality from others under the guise of expressing their freedom.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

I dare say I'll be accused of homophobia but that is my experience of a minority of gay and lesbian people.
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TwoDot
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#22
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As a gay person I find a lot of gay people are as ignorant as a large majority of straight people. For example a lot of gay people think it's wrong that gay people shouldn't be able to give blood. They seem to think that the decision was made as some form of discrimination against gay people for no reason. Then when I try and explain that it's because they are a high risk group in terms of having HIV they don't care and want to give blood because they feel as if they're being unfairly persecuted against. Even the NUS believes gay people should be able to give blood just because they can't and completely ignores the valid reasons why they shouldn't.

It's made even worse by groups such as stonewall who supposedly fight for gay rights. They are currently giving advice to a council on how to make the workplace more suitable for gay people. Gay people are attracted to the same sex, they're not special needs. All this rubbish about giving special treatment is what stops me from telling people i work with that I'm gay because then they treat me differenly and it's horrible. Stonewall needs to stop shoving their rubbish messages and advice in peoples faces. I don't deserve special treatment and I don't want it!

I know gay people won't like what I'm saying but someone has to say it.
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jumpingjesusholycow
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#23
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#23
(Original post by kerily)
Firstly, this is one person. She's not a spokesperson for the entire LGBT+ community and she doesn't represent everyone else's actions.
He didn't say 'I find all LGBT people annoying', he said 'I find many LGBT people annoying'. While that is completely subjective and unquantifiable, his statement is perfectly valid.

Secondly, no, they wouldn't be crying homophobia. Both actions and statements are wrong, but as you're presumably heterosexual and cisgender, I doubt you have much first-hand experience of what it's like not to be. If someone told a bisexual girl it was not ok for her to date a girl, it's highly likely that everyone around her would join in with saying 'eww, yes, that's disgusting' and 'lesbians can't have sex properly anyway' and 'you can only really love a boy if you're a girl' and the like. We don't exactly live in a very tolerant society, especially at school age. While what she's said is wrong, she's only saying to other people what they would probably have said to her.
What planet are you living on? Presumably you're talking about the United Kingdom. If so, you are severely mistaken, the UK is one of the most socially liberal countries in the world, far more so than the US and many other countries in Europe. If you want to see intolerant, try living in Saudi Arabia :facepalm:

Whilst I get the point that you're making about school, I don't necessarily agree. I suffered a lot of racism at school. I had a hard time and people didn't give me an easy time for having brown skin. That said, I recognise that this is pretty much down to immaturity and ignorance. Having grown up a tad more, I haven't experienced intolerance on a scale even nearly comparable and I think it's the same when it comes to homophobia. Homophobia really is tabboo these days - and that's a good thing. I just think that you're not only being hypersensitive and exaggerating the issue, I think you're doing exactly the same thing as what you're decrying: i.e. "HOW DARE YOU THINK LGBT PEOPLE ARE ANNOYING! That's only one person! YOU'RE ALL HOMOPHOBES THIS COUNTRY IS SO INTOLLERANT".


Thirdly, considering that you sound like you're about 15, I really wouldn't be surprised if she's still working out her own sexuality.
So heterophobia and anti-straight discrimination is okay if you're 'still working out your sexuality'?

Maybe she has a hangup about men because she's mentally thinking 'well, I'm bi - or am I a lesbian, oh my God, how confusing - and anyway it would be easier if I hated men for a bit'.
I wonder if you'd feel comfortable if I felt this way towards gays. Some people are complete hypocrites, and such people (like yourself) are the main instigators of homophobia. Such a shame you have to ruin it for the rest, I know many well adjusted gay individuals who would be disgusted by you.

I doubt she has a coherent and fully-formed worldview yet; nobody does at 15. How she's acting is probably influenced by whatever's going on in her head. While that doesn't make it ok, it does explain it.
So if you're straight, and don't have a fully-formed world view, you're a demon, and a reason to show that British society as a whole is intolerant. But f you're gay, and don't have a fully-formed world view, it's absolutely fine and is something to be pitied?
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WelshBluebird
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#24
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#24
(Original post by TwoDot)
Then when I try and explain that it's because they are a high risk group in terms of having HIV
Being in a high risk group does not mean they have it though.
Its complete rubbish that gay people can't give blood cos of HIV. Straight people get it too you know!
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Sephiroth
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Martyn*)
Gay people can be *****y; not all of them, but many can be. Many gay people I have known have a tendency to criticise everything especially when it comes to class, and that might involve where you work, what clothes you buy, and even what kind of music you like. They can be just as prejudiced as the rest of us. Many gay men I have known only have one dimenisional points of conversation; they are often just like young girls and don't really care for deep conversation, but go for chit-chat instead, which usually often involves some *****yness. Gay men and women can be cruel sometimes, but we all can be too.
Totally agree. Almost every one I've met has been like this.

But on topic I find there's more discrimination within the gay community than outside of it. LGB people discriminate against Ts, LGTs discriminate against Bs, Ls discriminate against men, Gs discriminate against straights, LGBTs discriminate against ugly people, racism is rampant, ageism is rampant, disabilities are discriminated against, the list could go on.

If you're not a perfect looking white queen between the ages of 18-25 who only likes one gender and who's conversational skills amount to talking about Lady GaGa's current fashion then you're screwed.

I must add this is a generalisation before Captain Obvious comes along to point that out, but it's true in 99% of cases. Almost every gay person I've met discriminates against one of the things I mentioned.
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TwoDot
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#26
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#26
(Original post by WelshBluebird)
Being in a high risk group does not mean they have it though.
Its complete rubbish that gay people can't give blood cos of HIV. Straight people get it too you know!
A significant amount of gay people don't get tested and have HIV. Ignorance is the problem here as people like that could decide to give blood without a single thought of the risks. You're right that straight people obvously can have HIV but a larger proportion of gay people are more likely to be infected.

This isn't some sort of attack against gay people. Based on the facts it just makes logical sense to be this strict on who gives blood.
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WelshBluebird
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(Original post by TwoDot)
A significant amount of gay people don't get tested and have HIV. Ignorance is the problem here as people like that could decide to give blood without a single thought of the risks.
Then make it so that a gay person can have a HIV test, and if its clean, then they can give blood.

A gay person giving blood and a straight person giving blood is the same thing. They both have the chance of carrying HIV (and other deseases).
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TwoDot
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You need to wait three months after the last time you've had unprotected sex before you can get a blood test as before that it's unlikely to be able to tell if you have HIV or not but what if the person frequently has sex with people unprotected, then this isn't possible. Condoms splitting as well is also a frequent problem.

You say it's the same thing but it's not as gay people have a much higher chance of aquiring HIV and that's the main problem. Even with what you're suggesting it's still very risky.
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WelshBluebird
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#29
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(Original post by TwoDot)
You need to wait three months after the last time you've had unprotected sex before you can get a blood test as before that it's unlikely to be able to tell if you have HIV or not but what if the person frequently has sex with people unprotected, then this isn't possible. Condoms splitting as well is also a frequent problem.

You say it's the same thing but it's not as gay people have a much higher chance of aquiring HIV and that's the main problem. Even with what you're suggesting it's still very risky.
But again that all applies to straight people too.
You can say gay people have a higher chance all you want - that doesn't change the fact that most gay people do not have HIV, the same as most straight people don't have it.
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DJkG.1
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(Original post by kerily)
... genderqueer, intersex etc
Are these new kinds of devient 'orientations'?
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TwoDot
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#31
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(Original post by WelshBluebird)
But again that all applies to straight people too.
You can say gay people have a higher chance all you want - that doesn't change the fact that most gay people do not have HIV, the same as most straight people don't have it.
"we must remember that gay and bisexual men are still the people most affected by HIV here in the UK - with one 1 in 20 gay and bisexual men infected with HIV."

That is a very high proportion of gay people with HIV and the infection rate amongst straight people is no where near as bad. Gay people not being allowed to give blood really is justified in my opinion.
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Cities
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(Original post by DJkG.1)
Are these new kinds of devient 'orientations'?
No, intersex is not "devient", it's caused by genetic or gonadal abnormalities. But then again, you probably think hermaphroditism is a choice and "devient". :facepalm2:
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SuperSam_Fantastiche
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#33
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(Original post by TwoDot)
"we must remember that gay and bisexual men are still the people most affected by HIV here in the UK - with one 1 in 20 gay and bisexual men infected with HIV."

That is a very high proportion of gay people with HIV and the infection rate amongst straight people is no where near as bad. Gay people not being allowed to give blood really is justified in my opinion.
Which means that 19/20 gay and bisexual men are discriminated against...
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TwoDot
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(Original post by SuperSam_Fantastiche)
Which means that 19/20 gay and bisexual men are discriminated against...
It's not that simple though.
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SuperSam_Fantastiche
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(Original post by TwoDot)
It's not that simple though.
Why not? Why should 19 gay and bisexual men be dismissed for something thats only true of one other person?
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B-Man.
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Sexual orientation does not effect your world views or any prejudices you may or may not have. One thing we need to do is stop stereotyping LBGT groups - both positive & negative stereotypes are illogical. Homosexuality does NOT affect your beliefs or thoughts about the world or it's population.
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SuperSam_Fantastiche
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(Original post by B-Man.)
Sexual orientation does not effect your world views or any prejudices you may or may not have. One thing we need to do is stop stereotyping LBGT groups - both positive & negative stereotypes are illogical. Homosexuality does NOT affect your beliefs or thoughts about the world or it's population.
/Thread.
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TwoDot
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(Original post by SuperSam_Fantastiche)
Why not? Why should 19 gay and bisexual men be dismissed for something thats only true of one other person?
The risk is you could get a higher majority of people with HIV giving blood than gay people who aren't infected. Taking that risk would be irresponsible.
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username457532
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(Original post by Sephiroth)
But on topic I find there's more discrimination within the gay community than outside of it. LGB people discriminate against Ts, LGTs discriminate against Bs, Ls discriminate against men, Gs discriminate against straights, LGBTs discriminate against ugly people, racism is rampant, ageism is rampant, disabilities are discriminated against, the list could go on.
I'm sure we've clashed on this before. A persons gender identity, physical sex, sexuality, race, age, or (dis)abilty whether physical or mental doesn't change the way I see them.

(Original post by TwoDot)
You need to wait three months after the last time you've had unprotected sex before you can get a blood test as before that it's unlikely to be able to tell if you have HIV or not but what if the person frequently has sex with people unprotected, then this isn't possible. Condoms splitting as well is also a frequent problem.
Well why is that not the rule for everyone? Why are men who've only slept with one or two other men in their lives and have never had unprotected sex more at risk than heterosexual men and women who've had lots of unprotected sex with many different people? They're not. It's just discriminatory.

(Original post by DJkG.1)
Are these new kinds of devient 'orientations'?
Errr... NO. Genderqueer is when someone feels they don't fit with the gender binary. Intersex is when someone is physically male and female or neither male of female.
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kerily
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(Original post by DJkG.1)
Are these new kinds of devient 'orientations'?
No, they're not. Being intersex is a physical condition caused by either not having XX or XY chromosomes, or having these but having ambiguous genitalia. Being genderqueer means you don't identify as 'male' or 'female'. Being asexual has a historical precedence, and means that your life doesn't revolve around sexual attraction.

(Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
What planet are you living on? Presumably you're talking about the United Kingdom. If so, you are severely mistaken, the UK is one of the most socially liberal countries in the world, far more so than the US and many other countries in Europe. If you want to see intolerant, try living in Saudi Arabia :facepalm:

Whilst I get the point that you're making about school, I don't necessarily agree. I suffered a lot of racism at school. I had a hard time and people didn't give
me an easy time for having brown skin. That said, I recognise that this is pretty much down to immaturity and ignorance. Having grown up a tad more, I haven't experienced intolerance on a scale even nearly comparable and I think it's the same when it comes to homophobia. Homophobia really is tabboo these days - and that's a good thing. I just think that you're not only being hypersensitive and exaggerating the issue, I think you're doing exactly the same thing as what you're decrying: i.e. "HOW DARE YOU THINK LGBT PEOPLE ARE ANNOYING! That's only one person! YOU'RE ALL HOMOPHOBES THIS COUNTRY IS SO INTOLLERANT".
Perhaps we live in very different parts of the world or country, but I honestly would not say that homophobia is taboo where I live. I've experienced it on every level; from at home to at school, and from medical professionals and school teachers. When complaining about a girl who was making death threats about me last year, I was told by school that this was my own fault because I was in a relationship with a girl and that was why she was picking on me. Now, I imagine other people have more tolerant parts of the country, and the level of discrimination LGBT+ people face in Britain isn't comparable to what they face in Iran etc. But it's still very real, and I have never experienced any of this 'how dare you pick on gay people, you have to be politically correct' that other people seem to complain about. I'm not saying that everyone else is homophobia, just that the people I've met are - and I don't think it's hypersensitive to complain about homophobia when the suicide rate for LGBT+ young people is exceptionally high, people are still beaten up or thrown out of their homes because of their sexuality, and we don't even have the same civil rights as heterosexual cisgender people.

So heterophobia and anti-straight discrimination is okay if you're 'still working out your sexuality'?
I'm not saying that it is acceptable; I'm saying that it's understandable. I suspect from the tone of the OP that we're talking about people who are in their mid-teens, which is a time where nobody is very mature or sensible in their attitudes to other people, no matter what their sexuality is. I did say several times in my post that I don't think it's ok to insult someone for whatever sexuality they have, but there is a context to what this girl is saying, and you can understand why she's saying it (without condoning it) if you look at the context.

I wonder if you'd feel comfortable if I felt this way towards gays. Some people are complete hypocrites, and such people (like yourself) are the main instigators of homophobia. Such a shame you have to ruin it for the rest, I know many well adjusted gay individuals who would be disgusted by you.
If your opinion of gay people was the same as my opinion of straight people - total tolerance and a desire for better understanding on both sides - then I would be entirely comfortable :rolleyes: I'm not an instigator of homophobia and I don't think that I'm 'ruining it for the rest' by refusing to roll over and say 'yes, you're right, we are too vocal in our demands for equal treatment'. I'm also not sure what I've done which is so 'disgusting'. Nowhere did I say that it was acceptable to discriminate against people, no matter what category they fit into. All I'm saying is that it's wrong to discriminate. If you know someone who's 'disgusted' by that and you still consider them 'well-adjusted', I am quite concerned about the criteria you're using.

So if you're straight, and don't have a fully-formed world view, you're a demon, and a reason to show that British society as a whole is intolerant. But f you're gay, and don't have a fully-formed world view, it's absolutely fine and is something to be pitied?
No. I'm not saying that this girl deserves special consideration because her worldview isn't formed yet; I'm just saying that you have to understand it in context, no matter whether someone is gay or straight or whatever they are. I do think that British society as a whole is intolerant, mainly because I've experienced more examples of discrimination than I can list; now, this may be related to where I live and I imagine that not everywhere is the same, but the fact is that some pockets exist where being LGBT+ is downright terrifying. I am not criticising or picking on straight people, and I find this belief that straight people are somehow oppressed by LGBT+ rights quite confusing.
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