Child Mortality is down - this is not good news Watch

Made in the USA
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Jimbo1234)
You completely missed the point and clearly did not read what I posted.
Room is not the issues, but resources.
We do not have enough resources to sustain the current develop population for more then a few decades, let alone have enough to increase it. So unless we start culling people or master space travel, your children are ****ed.
I read what you posted, I just think it's nonsense. We have been told that we only have 50 years left of oil until it all runs out for over 50 years now and we keep discovering more. US has huge reserves of coal, shale oil, and natural gas that we haven't even touched. And when I say huge reserves, I'm talking 100-500 years worth.
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whyumadtho
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#22
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#22
(Original post by J.tytler)
Obviously, they on't be able to. The world population will continue to mushroom... and nature has a way of dealing with species which overconsume to the extent that they ultimately destroy their environment.

Seems pretty inevitable at this point that, well, the future ain't looking to great :/
I agree. I think the constantly increasing fuel prices will be one of the primary triggers that cause the collapse of modern civilisation.

Should be interesting...
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Mad Cat Lady
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#23
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#23
On the surface it appears you make a good point, but what exactly do you expect TSR users to do about it? You appear to suggest we should go out killing children or something...

It is not the child mortality rate that must be fixed but the number of children people have. And as people have said, it's decreasing. So what's your point in posting this? There's nothing WE can do.
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Paint-a-Picture
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#24
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#24
Hmm, I suppose this will be quite fun to watch. I would like this process to be made quicker so that I can witness it in my lifetime please. Otherwise I dont want to know about what will happen. I will not be there to say, 'I told you so' .
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Unbiased Opinion
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Jimbo1234)
2012 : end of terbium
2018 : end of hafnium
2021 : end of silver
2022 : end of antimony
2023 : end of palladium
2025 : end of indium
end of gold
end of zinc
2028 : end of tin
2030 : end of lead
2038 : end of tantalum
2039 : end of copper
2040 : end of uranium
2048 : end of nickel
2050 : end of oil

2064 : end of platinum

2072 : end of natural gas

2087 : end of iron
2120 :end of cobalt
2139 : end of aluminium
2158 : end of coal

Go read this: http://www.naturalnews.com/028028_ra...ts_mining.html

Yeah, kiss goodbye all your 'green energy' schemes in the next 50 years.

Even if they did manage to find more, is it going to be 10,000 yrs worth? Or enough to get us through but **** over the rest of humanity?

EDIT: Wouldn't it be ironic that after all this time we are forced back to middle age lifestyle because we could not bring ourselves to control our own population - something nature does perfectly well but we deem it ok to fight against.
Where did you pull this 80% figure from? Can't find it on your source.

Of course we deem it ok to fight against it, all organisms do... that's the whole idea of the selfish gene!
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J.tytler
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Made in the USA)
I read what you posted, I just think it's nonsense. We have been told that we only have 50 years left of oil until it all runs out for over 50 years now and we keep discovering more. US has huge reserves of coal, shale oil, and natural gas that we haven't even touched. And when I say huge reserves, I'm talking 100-500 years worth.
So we should continue to go down the route of dependance on oil dispite the fact that it is not sustainable? We will one day have to find alternative energy sources... be it now or in 500 years.

A stich in time saves 9... surely a gradual shift to renewable energy sources will be much easier, cheaper and more beneficial now than after 500 years of further dependancy on oil.
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Unbiased Opinion
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Paint-a-Picture)
Hmm, I suppose this will be quite fun to watch. I would like this process to be made quicker so that I can witness it in my lifetime please. Otherwise I dont want to know about what will happen. I will not be there to say, 'I told you so' .
Fun to watch?

Want to be there?

Really not sure if serious...
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Intensity
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Paint-a-Picture)
Hmm, I suppose this will be quite fun to watch. I would like this process to be made quicker so that I can witness it in my lifetime please. Otherwise I dont want to know about what will happen. I will not be there to say, 'I told you so' .
I just totally negged you by accident. Sorry :puppyeyes:.

I'm sure they'll find other ways to sustain us. Either way, there's not a lot we can do about it; so no real point in endlessly worrying.
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Made in the USA
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#29
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#29
(Original post by J.tytler)
So we should continue to go down the route of dependance on oil dispite the fact that it is not sustainable? We will one day have to find alternative energy sources... be it now or in 500 years.

A stich in time saves 9... surely a gradual shift to renewable energy sources will be much easier, cheaper and more beneficial now than after 500 years of further dependancy on oil.
I have faith in technology to come up with innovative sources of renewable energy. I am in no way advocating staying on the same path, I just believe there is plenty of energy available to us to sustain us until we can come up with alternatives.
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kingal86
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#30
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#30
Surely the only thing you could do if you truly believed this (since you obviously can't murder 80% of the world's population) is start an armed tribe of male and female survivalists with a wide gene pool, and start hoarding food and re-learning subsistence agriculture?

I agree there should be more planning for a post-oil or post-fossil fuels future, but will just have to hope human ingenuity will thing of something, like it did after Malthus' time. Otherwise most of us will starve to death, and we're screwed and there's little we can do about it.

If there's enough coal to last until the late 22nd century wouldn't we burn all of that to keep civilisation going in a worst case? And turn some of the coal into oil to make oil-based fertilisers. Is it possible to build and maintain nuclear power stations without fossil fuels?

Though I guess that coal figure may be at current usage.

There's a book called a "Planet For the President" where the US plots to kill all non-Americans for these sort of environmental/Malthusian reasons. There are some very bleak, apocolyptic Peak Oil books that argue similar to the OP, but some of them seem disturbingly happy when predicting a return to pre-industrial society and the starvation of most of the world's population.
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Paint-a-Picture
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Intensity)
I just totally negged you by accident. Sorry :puppyeyes:.

I'm sure they'll find other ways to sustain us. Either way, there's not a lot we can do about it; so no real point in endlessly worrying.
Lol, thats fine- dont worry.

You have just perfected my post.
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whyumadtho
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#32
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#32
(Original post by kingal86)
I agree there should be more planning for a post-oil or post-fossil fuels future, but will just have to hope human ingenuity will thing of something, like it did after Malthus' time. Otherwise most of us will starve to death, and we're screwed and there's little we can do about it.

If there's enough coal to last until the late 22nd century wouldn't we burn all of that to keep civilisation going in a worst case? And turn some of the coal into oil to make oil-based fertilisers. Is it possible to build and maintain nuclear power stations without fossil fuels?

Though I guess that coal figure may be at current usage.
The world has become dependent on capitalism. Even if we delay the inevitable, under this system renewable fuels will never be implemented on a global scale because in many cases it is not profitable to the shareholders. Irrespective of their societal benefits, if there is not a private incentive to build them, they won't be built, unfortunately.
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BlueJoker
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#33
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#33
The reason people have so many children in undeveloped countries is because child mortality rates are so high - they're trying to make sure at least some survive.

So, even if your hysteric, psuedo-science ramblings are accurate, you should want child mortality to continue to go down for the sake of a decreasing population.
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Paint-a-Picture
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Unbiased Opinion)
Fun to watch?

Want to be there?

Really not sure if serious...
Sure.
Why not?
Wouldnt it be fun?
The whole world is sinking, people running round crazy, people shouting at one another.... and you just sit there and laugh yourself dead.
Wow, Ima make a film out of this one.
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canimakeit
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Paint-a-Picture)
Sure.
Why not?
Wouldnt it be fun?
The whole world is sinking, people running round crazy, people shouting at one another.... and you just sit there and laugh yourself dead.
Wow, Ima make a film out of this one.
Yes so much fun people running attacking others, killing, destroying, stealing, raping total anarchy so much fun I wonder if you will find it fun if you find yourself in a situation where you have to sell your body for scraps of food.

You do not want to be around when/if civilisation gets ****ed
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*Lizzi*
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Jimbo1234)


http://www.childmortality.org/cmeMain.html


So, child mortality is coming down, more countries are becoming developed, this should be good news right?

Wrong.

We barely have enough resources to support less then a billion people in a 'developed' lifestyle, how can we possibly support more?

I am not talking just about oil, but other materials such as lithium (20 years supply left so you better start enjoying nuclear batteries), rare earth minerals which are key to electronic goods, and general power consumption. Unless we crack fusion there is no possibly way we can generate enough energy. Wind farms? The amount needed would screw up the wind patterns or completely stop wind in areas. Solar panels? They would take up such a large surface area that it would heat up the atmosphere and destroy the eco system.
The only solution I can see is that every country needs to put a population cap and reduce the worlds population by at least 90% otherwise humanity will be permanently stuck in the middle ages within 100 years.
l
I take it you're not going to have children then? And you won't be devastated should your child die?
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In the looney bin
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#37
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#37
(Original post by BlueJoker)
The reason people have so many children in undeveloped countries is because child mortality rates are so high - they're trying to make sure at least some survive.

So, even if your hysteric, psuedo-science ramblings are accurate, you should want child mortality to continue to go down for the sake of a decreasing population.
This.

Safety in numbers makes developing-country families ensure at least 1-2 children are alive to wipe their ass when they're an OAP.
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Scribblet
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Made in the USA)
Your warning about the risks of population growth was first voiced by Thomas Robert Malthus at the turn of the 19th century. For the most part all of his concerns were discredited. Last time I flew to Nevada I could see hundreds and hundreds of miles of nothing from the airplane window. There is plenty of room for the human race to grow.
I spy a Boserup fan...

Hmm... it's true that Malthus has so far been proved wrong in that humans have managed to find a way to make resources match population size. Another example of a Malthusian being wrong is Paul Erlich's 'The Population Bomb'. His predictions proved inaccurate and more than that whilst he predicted millions of deaths in the 1970s the birth rate actually rose.

And yet there seems to be infinite want for finite resources. I'm wary of being a technological optimist, it seems too be too great a leap of faith. I do wonder what people are going to do as we slowly run out of resources.

As for comments about there being plenty of open spaces on Earth - some of these places simply aren't inhabitable. Think of the energy cost of providing water and electricity to places in the desert.

But as Julian Simons said 'People are the Ultimate Resource'. Him and Boserup do seem to be consistently proved right. Take this for example:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/8586046.stm
I do have some hope that humans will manage to find a sustainable way of staying put.
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Pn94
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#39
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#39
Smoke some weed. Everything will seem OK.
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Paint-a-Picture
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#40
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#40
(Original post by canimakeit)
Yes so much fun people running attacking others, killing, destroying, stealing, raping total anarchy so much fun I wonder if you will find it fun if you find yourself in a situation where you have to sell your body for scraps of food.

You do not want to be around when/if civilisation gets ****ed
Why shouldnt it be?
We as humans have been planning to these last days from the beginning of time.
To destroy our kind, along with the world and all other creatures. We are so involved in our selfishness we do not understand, we try not to understand we dont ****ing give a damn. Why do we make out that all our hard work has gone to waste? Why did we do all of that for then? I thought we as humans have reasons? I thought we were smart, intelligent- the leading creatures? Where has that all gone to now? Why do we result to regret at the last minutes of our plans that had been successfull all this time?
Why shouldnt I be happy of the things that I have helped achieve?
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