UCL vs St. Andrews Watch

notepad
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#21
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#21
(Original post by therealOG)
They're all flawed to some extent because it's extremely hard to rank universities accurately as the weightings of the criteria are subjective.

I can equally counter your argument by saying that domestic rankings place stupid emphasis on student satisfaction - this is 100% subjective and will differ from person to person. At least the proportion of international students and staff members is 100% objective, and gives you an idea of how well the university's reputation attracts the world's best international academics.

The world rankings place large emphasis on academic citations (i.e. research strength) and on employer reputation (i.e. how impressive this will look on a CV, the "brand name") - areas that UCL far outperforms St. Andrews.

Then you have the reality of things, on the streets. Ask people, students, teachers - 9 out of 10 will say that UCL is a better university than St. Andrews. At my school (which sends around 25 people to Oxbridge annually), UCL is seen as 1st or 2nd choice for top students, whereas as far as I can tell, no alumnus has ever gone to St. Andrews. It's just not on the radar.

UCL is part of the golden triangle and the G5 group (Oxbridge, LSE, UCL and Imperial). The Times has stated that UCL is the best multi-faculty university in the UK after Oxbridge. The fact that it's ranked 4th in the world by QS must indicate something to you. You'd be deluded otherwise...

And a final point, UCL is regarded as having the best English department in the UK, above Oxbridge in fact.
Bias.

I recognise that UCL has great Economics and English departments and a great medical school, but apart from that UCL is incredibly over-rated. The sole reason why UCL has sky-rocketed to number 4 was because, due to excess funding, they've upped their research - a lot. A lot of the league tables nowadays are very research heavy. I must say that outside those three departments, I would not consider UCL world class at all.

Yes, the best multi-faculty university outside of the UK because you're not including Imperial (and probably LSE, too).

Everyone knows that UCL is not consider number 4 in the world, it's considered number 4 in the UK, though (Oxbridge, Imperial ~). The majority of the Ivy League universities are much better than UCL; realistically, it's in the world top 20-25.

EDIT: I'm not anti-UCL or anything, but it's a little annoying about how over-rated it is :P 50% of the factors making up the QS ranking are Student Faculty; International Faculty; and International Students! I'm not going to base where I pursue my studies on those statistics (and that's the another major reason why it overperformed, here, beating MIT; Oxford; Imperial; Princeton; Stanford ... you kidding me??)

EDIT 2: Although I was wrong about the 50% thing, UCL is still over-rated and my other points still stand. All of you know it.

EDIT 3: :fan: Stupid UCLers negging me (joke) :aetsch: =P
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simon-leeds
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#22
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#22
(Original post by therealOG)
They're all flawed to some extent because it's extremely hard to rank universities accurately as the weightings of the criteria are subjective.

I can equally counter your argument by saying that domestic rankings place stupid emphasis on student satisfaction - this is 100% subjective and will differ from person to person. At least the proportion of international students and staff members is 100% objective, and gives you an idea of how well the university's reputation attracts the world's best international academics.

The world rankings place large emphasis on academic citations (i.e. research strength) and on employer reputation (i.e. how impressive this will look on a CV, the "brand name") - areas that UCL far outperforms St. Andrews.

Then you have the reality of things, on the streets. Ask people, students, teachers - 9 out of 10 will say that UCL is a better university than St. Andrews. At my school (which sends around 25 people to Oxbridge annually), UCL is seen as 1st or 2nd choice for top students, whereas as far as I can tell, no alumnus has ever gone to St. Andrews. It's just not on the radar.

UCL is part of the golden triangle and the G5 group (Oxbridge, LSE, UCL and Imperial). The Times has stated that UCL is the best multi-faculty university in the UK after Oxbridge. The fact that it's ranked 4th in the world by QS must indicate something to you. You'd be deluded otherwise...

And a final point, UCL is regarded as having the best English department in the UK, above Oxbridge in fact.
I didn't know that what lecturers at other universities thought was more important than what students at the university thought. There is a good Times article on the issue of International vs. UK rankings and in fact mentions how smaller universities suffer in International tables: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle6866395.ece

Really? Someone should have told the people who make the league tables. 9 out of 10 people could quite easily be convinced that Thames Valley is considered to be better than LSE for economics. And we've already established that UCL is in London. The Sunday Times also said the same about St Andrews. The fact that St Andrews has finished above UCL in 76% of the domestic league tables published in the last 5 years must indicate something to you. You'd be deluded otherwise...

I would also like to add that I'm not anti UCL at all either. I belive UCL and St Andrews are almost impossible to separate in the UK top 6 along with Imperial and LSE and that both belong firmly in the top 25 in the world. I just want to tackle the clear London bias that is present on TSR.
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therealOG
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#23
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#23
(Original post by notepad)
Bias.

I recognise that UCL has great Economics and English departments and a great medical school, but apart from that UCL is incredibly over-rated. The sole reason why UCL has sky-rocketed to number 4 was because, due to excess funding, they've upped their research - a lot. A lot of the league tables nowadays are very research heavy. I must say that outside those three departments, I would not consider UCL world class at all.

Yes, the best multi-faculty university outside of the UK because you're not including Imperial (and probably LSE, too).

Everyone knows that UCL is not consider number 4 in the world, it's considered number 4 in the UK, though (Oxbridge, Imperial ~). The majority of the Ivy League universities are much better than UCL; realistically, it's in the world top 20-25.

EDIT: I'm not anti-UCL or anything, but it's a little annoying about how over-rated it is :P 50% of the factors making up the QS ranking are Student Faculty; International Faculty; and International Students! I'm not going to base where I pursue my studies on those statistics (and that's the another major reason why it overperformed, here, beating MIT; Oxford; Imperial; Princeton; Stanford ... you kidding me??)
That is complete BS:
The "International faculty and students" criteria only take up 5% of the overall weighting.

I won't argue with straight up fools.
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therealOG
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#24
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#24
(Original post by simon-leeds)
I didn't know that what lecturers at other universities thought was more important than what students at the university thought. There is a good Times article on the issue of International vs. UK rankings and in fact mentions how smaller universities suffer in International tables: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle6866395.ece

Really? Someone should have told the people who make the league tables. 9 out of 10 people could quite easily be convinced that Thames Valley is considered to be better than LSE for economics. And we've already established that UCL is in London. The Sunday Times also said the same about St Andrews. The fact that St Andrews has finished above UCL in 76% of the domestic league tables published in the last 5 years must indicate something to you. You'd be deluded otherwise...

I would also like to add that I'm not anti UCL at all either. I belive UCL and St Andrews are almost impossible to separate in the UK top 6 along with Imperial and LSE and that both belong firmly in the top 25 in the world. I just want to tackle the clear London bias that is present on TSR.
UCL's brand name >>>>>>>>>>> St. Andrews' brand name

Deal with it. I'd never rate St. Andrews on the same level as UCL.
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simon-leeds
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#25
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#25
(Original post by therealOG)
UCL's brand name >>>>>>>>>>> St. Andrews' brand name

Deal with it. I'd never rate St. Andrews on the same level as UCL.
And clearly you represent anyone who knows anyone about tertieary education in the world.
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Mechie
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#26
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#26
(Original post by therealOG)
UCL > St. Andrews

They are both very good uni's, but UCL has definitely got the edge when it comes to prestige and employability. UCL's English department is very highly regarded as well.

Do you want to live in the heart of the UK's capital, or do you want to live in an isolated town? That's what it boils down to.

Edit: Haters gonna hate.
St Andrews isn't isolated.
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Mechie
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#27
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#27
(Original post by therealOG)
UCL's brand name >>>>>>>>>>> St. Andrews' brand name

Deal with it. I'd never rate St. Andrews on the same level as UCL.
:rofl: You don't have a clue.
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therealOG
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#28
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#28
(Original post by davidmarsh01)
:rofl: You don't have a clue.
Lolz. I don't have a clue, I have the facts and know-how buddy.

I see you have an offer from Warwick. Being the deluded fanboy you are, I'm guessing you're going to ignore the facts and firm St. Andrews. Am I correct?
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Mechie
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#29
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#29
(Original post by therealOG)
Lolz. I don't have a clue, I have the facts and know-how buddy.

I see you have an offer from Warwick. Being the deluded fanboy you are, I'm guessing you're going to ignore the facts and firm St. Andrews. Am I correct?
I'm not a deluded fanboy. You are correct in saying I'm not going to firm Warwick, yes. But it might not be St Andrews I firm, it could just as easily be Edinburgh or Glasgow.

Why do you care anyway?
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Mechie
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#30
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#30
(Original post by therealOG)
Lolz. I don't have a clue, I have the facts and know-how buddy.

I see you have an offer from Warwick. Being the deluded fanboy you are, I'm guessing you're going to ignore the facts and firm St. Andrews. Am I correct?
What makes you think you know so much anyway?
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Leenz
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#31
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#31
Simon-leeds, I figure you go to St. Andrews? Do you know if it's possible/easy to get internships, say for the summer, at St.Andrews? Or is it pretty hard to find work and internships of sorts? Thank you!
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simon-leeds
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Leenz)
Simon-leeds, I figure you go to St. Andrews? Do you know if it's possible/easy to get internships, say for the summer, at St.Andrews? Or is it pretty hard to find work and internships of sorts? Thank you!
Not yet, but I do know a couple of people there currently. Apparently you're much better off looking in Dundee. 4th biggest city in the country and only 15 minutes away. St. Andrews is much tougher, though if you are going to go the Uni might give you some help. Hope that helped!
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Leenz
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#33
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#33
(Original post by simon-leeds)
Not yet, but I do know a couple of people there currently. Apparently you're much better off looking in Dundee. 4th biggest city in the country and only 15 minutes away. St. Andrews is much tougher, though if you are going to go the Uni might give you some help. Hope that helped!
Thank you Maybe I'll see you there next year? I'm kind of leaning towards St. Andrews right now. Maybe UCL for my master's degree
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simon-leeds
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Leenz)
Thank you Maybe I'll see you there next year? I'm kind of leaning towards St. Andrews right now. Maybe UCL for my master's degree
Hope so! It's a win - win though whichever one you end up going with.
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M_E_X
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Leenz)
Simon-leeds, I figure you go to St. Andrews? Do you know if it's possible/easy to get internships, say for the summer, at St.Andrews? Or is it pretty hard to find work and internships of sorts? Thank you!
Depends which subject (assuming you want an academic internship based in the university) - what would you be studying? For physics/maths it is very easy, for example (my subject)

For non-university internships it is almost impossible, there isn't any industry here really: you'd have to look elsewhere.
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Leenz
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#36
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#36
(Original post by M_E_X)
Depends which subject (assuming you want an academic internship based in the university) - what would you be studying? For physics/maths it is very easy, for example (my subject)

For non-university internships it is almost impossible, there isn't any industry here really: you'd have to look elsewhere.
I'll be doing English. What about non-university outside of St. Andrews, it is possible to find them from St. Andrews, or do you think it's easier if I'm say at university in London and look for non-university internships there? I don't know if that made any sense...
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M_E_X
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Leenz)
I'll be doing English. What about non-university outside of St. Andrews, it is possible to find them from St. Andrews, or do you think it's easier if I'm say at university in London and look for non-university internships there? I don't know if that made any sense...
Hey,
It makes sense. I've been offered several internships for this summer in finance (different roles), and I'm a physics undergrad here. You have good job prospects coming out of here, and that includes good prospects for internships etc.

Of course, if you study in London and have a flat there then you'd be able to live in your flat over summer while you intern etc, which is a benefit of London vs St Andrews - but I don't think in terms of actually getting internship we're at a disadvantage.
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Leenz
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#38
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#38
(Original post by M_E_X)
Hey,
It makes sense. I've been offered several internships for this summer in finance (different roles), and I'm a physics undergrad here. You have good job prospects coming out of here, and that includes good prospects for internships etc.

Of course, if you study in London and have a flat there then you'd be able to live in your flat over summer while you intern etc, which is a benefit of London vs St Andrews - but I don't think in terms of actually getting internship we're at a disadvantage.
Sounds pretty cool Thanks for the info!
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s.findlay
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#39
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#39
St Andrews is anything but isolated, there's a bus every 15 minutes to Dundee (25 minutes away) and I think its only about 50 minutes from Edinburgh
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brownbear88
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#40
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#40
I don't normally reply to threads like this but really, the level of ignorance in some people is appalling. I'm graduating from St Andrews next month with an MA. None of this inferior brand name nonsense please. On the strength of its 'brand name', I studied for a year at UC Berkeley, and have accepted an offer to continue my postgrad studies at Oxford. UCL has its own strengths, I'm not putting it down, but I am SO GLAD I studied at St Andrews.
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