Criminal convictions and careers? Watch

donspy
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#21
Report 7 years ago
#21
Have similar situation nearly fin my degree in commerce, few weeks ago got done for 2x Common Assault Domestic- charges and I expect or community service or a fine.

The thing is after a period of time in NZ 7 years you don't have to disclose your past convictions anymore. I'm concerned about the same thing like you, the thing is you have to stay away of any trouble, otherwise could cost you another 7 years.
0
reply
Pindar
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#22
Report 7 years ago
#22
(Original post by bluepencil)
Again to keep the thread alive, I'll summarise.

One conviction for criminal damage

One conviction for assault (GBH)
Why would someone employ you if they think you are going to assault and brutally maim co-workers and cause criminal damage to company property?
0
reply
bluepencil
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#23
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#23
Both valid points.

Nobody got maimed though
0
reply
fauni
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#24
Report 7 years ago
#24
(Original post by Stefan1991)
Why would someone employ you if they think you are going to assault and brutally maim co-workers and cause criminal damage to company property?
Why not!? You ever heard of Rehabilitation?

It can clearly be seen that this guy in no way is a danger to anyone at all. And this is the point he needs to get across to the employer. His conviction for GBH can be seen as something indeed very serious but remember to always look at his circumstances and the background of his case. We can clearly see that he and his girlfriend were both in danger when being attacked and of course this lead to him doing what any person would do - defend himself and his girlfriend. He obviously used excessive force and correct me if I am wrong, but this is what probably lead him to being convicted for GBH. Now from my perspective, and I think I can speak for everyone here, anyone whose confronted with this sort of situation will do the exact same thing (maybe not use excessive force? - debatable). So you need to look at this case maybe a bit more in detail. Just because someone has a conviction for Assault/GBH doesn't automatically mean they will be a danger to someone, one obviously needs to look into the circumstances and see why/how it happened and what the chances are of something like that happening again.

In regards to the Crim dam, we can see that it was "overzealous spray painting of graffiti" something which I believe occured when he was young and probably has grown up from it now. From any employers perspective, this conviction should not hold him back. Applying for a MC role and declaring your conviction for crim damage (graffiti) will not hold him back from doing his job as the conviction is not related to his profession and as we can see from the nature of offence, he is not a risk to anyone in any sort of way.

OP, you need to just keep trying and not give up that easily. I can understand your situation is not the best and having your offers withdrawn from two excellent jobs obviously has had a massive impact on your motivation for trying to find a graduate job with a known company. Just remember, you need to prove to the employer that regardless of your 2 convictions, you present no danger to anybody. Nowadays there's so many discrimination laws out there so if a firm does reject you, they have to be standing on solid ground when rejecting you. Try and find out the exact reasons for the second company withdrawing your offer.
1
reply
bluepencil
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#25
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#25
@Fauni

Cheers bud, it is decent to hear that there are people who think I deserve a second chance. Currently sitting unemployed right now, it is difficult to remain motivated when from experience both my offers have been taken away - so why bother?

Have been attempting to call head of graduate HR for 2 weeks, always missed her! I do want answers though
0
reply
Lizzzle
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#26
Report 7 years ago
#26
That was a great story!

It felt like a movie in the Lifetime channel and I want to find out the ending.


But seriously, If I were you I would look into possible volunteering, internship, community services etc to show that you are a positive individual in society, you can't do anything about your conviction and i'm sure if you were given the chance to explain your story you'd find a great job. However in order to get to that position, employers will want to see some sort of growth and reflection on your part from your past.
0
reply
jumpinglunch
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#27
Report 7 years ago
#27
Why don't you bring it up at the end of the interviews...before it gets too a stage of being offered the job. Saves you any disappointment. I find disclosing things face to face will allow them to see that both crimes do not reflect who you are.Perhaps if you explain the situations in depth, they will understand. Very unlikely, but still worth a go.

Good luck.
0
reply
geekay1
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#28
Report 7 years ago
#28
(Original post by bluepencil)
Hello guys, have turned to TSR for some advice and to see if anyone else has shared a similar unfortunate experience.


So it goes.........

I was born into a family that lies somewhere between working and middle class.
Attended the local primary school along with the rest of my siblings.
Worked pretty hard to achieve good exam results even at a young age.
Thoroughly enjoyed completing school projects, won awards for them alongside having outstanding attendance.

Got to the age of 11, first big decision was about which secondary school to choose.
Majority of my then friends went to the local comprehensive, I wanted to do the same.
Parents locked me in a room every Saturday for 6 months to practice for the entrance exam to a renowned grammar school. (Incredibly grateful they did btw)
Failed the entrance exam to the school by 1 mark. Nightmare.
Thankfully a couple of people dropped out, and there I was - going to one of the best grammar schools in the country.

Started at the school, didn't really like the pupils - nothing like the kids I'd known before. Wanted to leave but parents told me to stay (again thanks for that).
Obtained a good set of GCSE's, by this point had made some really good friends.
Continued at the school for 6th form, captaining the inaugural 6th form football team.
Studied for my A-levels, receiving numerous offers for a university place.
Results day came, got the results I needed, off to a Russell Group Uni I go!

Pivotal time in my life, 18 years old, living away from home for the first time.
Thoroughly enjoying university, getting on well with my course.
Made plenty of friends, taking responsibility for myself.
Start my 2nd year - then bam! Manage to ger myself in bit of bother with the police.
Keep my head down, get on with my studies. Matter still going round in my head, what will be my fate.
Heading into my final year, another stroke of bad luck! Get into further trouble with the police after doing what I thought was the right thing at the time.
Both matters still continuing as I take my final exams, stressful time.

Results day, yes! I've done it, I got my precious 2:1.
Both matters still being dragged out, playing on my mind, but try to start finding some temporary work.
Work in temporary positions for 18 months as I have no idea what is going to happen to me.
Thankfully matters are resolved, community orders and 2 nice convictions to my name.

Can finally begin my graduate job search!
3 months down the line, I am offered a position as a management consultant with a major corporation.
I've made it, I'm in the money, all my life's hard academic work has paid off!
Oh wait, we don't want to give you that. Why's that? Because you are a criminal. OK fair enough, perhaps I couldn't do the job as wouldn't get public sector clearance. Understood.

Back on the job hunt again. Fantastic opportunity arises.
I seize it with both hands, get myself a position with a global brand as the assistant to their CFO.
Great news, now comes the disclosure bit again.
OK - so I contact them, need to be upfront, let them know I am not trying to hide away from my past.
'Thanks for your letter - errrrr no thanks, the offer is recinded' This time no explanation given.

Hmmmmmmmm what am I to do.

A 23 year old graduate who has shown he is capable but has a conviction for criminal damage, and an assault conviction for defending his girlfriend and himself when under attack.

Is my career over before it has even began?
GBH or ABH ??
0
reply
bluepencil
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#29
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#29
@ Lizzle

I have done so. Last summer I set up my own youth project which ran successfully for a couple of months. In the disclosure I gave, I mentioned what I had done and achieved, didn't help much that time though!

@Teshla

I have considered bringing it up at interview but it is not easy. The management consultancy job was an assessment centre, there was never a good time to mention! Again in the second job offer, which was 2 stages of interviews/presentations it didn't feel right to mention it. I have been trying to minimise the impact of it without shying away from the facts. Both times I asked for face to face interviews to explain but was declined them. Criminal convictions never seem to be a particular topic people want to discuss!

@geekay1

It was for GBH, albeit the lesser serious; S.20 charge
0
reply
geekay1
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#30
Report 7 years ago
#30
(Original post by bluepencil)
@ Lizzle

I have done so. Last summer I set up my own youth project which ran successfully for a couple of months. In the disclosure I gave, I mentioned what I had done and achieved, didn't help much that time though!

@Teshla

I have considered bringing it up at interview but it is not easy. The management consultancy job was an assessment centre, there was never a good time to mention! Again in the second job offer, which was 2 stages of interviews/presentations it didn't feel right to mention it. I have been trying to minimise the impact of it without shying away from the facts. Both times I asked for face to face interviews to explain but was declined them. Criminal convictions never seem to be a particular topic people want to discuss!

@geekay1

It was for GBH, albeit the lesser serious; S.20 charge
how was you able to get a GBH charge and still call in self defence, you no doubt went above and beyond self defence,but i suppose when your angry and attempting to defend someone you care for going a bit ott is not uncommon.
But anyway back to the point at worse you may have to start a little bit lower down the ladder, however if you are still willing to spend a lot of time looking and make sure to explain your why and how you got your convictions when stating what they are, i think you will find it very difficult right now as your convictions have been committed quite recently. it should get easier as time passes though just keep looking and dont give up.
0
reply
Pindar
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#31
Report 7 years ago
#31
(Original post by fauni)
Why not!? You ever heard of Rehabilitation?

It can clearly be seen that this guy in no way is a danger to anyone at all. And this is the point he needs to get across to the employer. His conviction for GBH can be seen as something indeed very serious but remember to always look at his circumstances and the background of his case.
The employers don't get any of that information though, they get a piece of paper saying "convicted of causing Grievous bodily harm". It's not exactly like it's easy to cause someone grievous bodily harm. How were you defending yourself OP, with a machete?

(Original post by fauni)
We can clearly see that he and his girlfriend were both in danger when being attacked and of course this lead to him doing what any person would do - defend himself and his girlfriend.
The courts obviously did not agree he used reasonable force, otherwise he would have been acquitted on grounds of self-defence.

There is no justification for excessive force, it means you are just trying to hurt somebody and not simply defending yourself.
0
reply
bluepencil
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#32
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#32
@Stefan1991

Only start making assumptions on the law if you understand/know it.

Put in the context of this case, it was one punch. It was however one strong punch which fractured a small bone (the zycoma/cheekbone) of an individual.

Dressed up as GBH things can sound a whole lot worse than they actually may be.
0
reply
geekay1
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#33
Report 7 years ago
#33
(Original post by bluepencil)
@Stefan1991

Only start making assumptions on the law if you understand/know it.

Put in the context of this case, it was one punch. It was however one strong punch which fractured a small bone (the zycoma/cheekbone) of an individual.

Dressed up as GBH things can sound a whole lot worse than they actually may be.
ohh i understand now and obviously because it broke the bone it was then seen as permanent damage causing the charge to be GBH.
if anything i think that's bad luck.
a friend of mine was in the same sort of situation and he chipped someone's tooth yet still only got ABH so i presume it depends case to case.

I hope it works out for you anyway mate and wish you luck.
0
reply
bluepencil
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#34
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#34
Cheers geekay!
0
reply
Michel Foucault
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#35
Report 7 years ago
#35
(Original post by Stefan1991)
There is no justification for excessive force, it means you are just trying to hurt somebody and not simply defending yourself.
Do you really think it is as black and white as that? Have you ever had to defend yourself in what you perceive to be a seriously threatening situation at the time? I'm inclined to think not, otherwise you might have some understanding of (and sympathy for) how your sense of reason can quite easily fly out the window in place of sheer primal instinct when you really think your arse is on the line...
0
reply
Pindar
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#36
Report 7 years ago
#36
(Original post by Michel Foucault)
Do you really think it is as black and white as that? Have you ever had to defend yourself in what you perceive to be a seriously threatening situation at the time? I'm inclined to think not, otherwise you might have some understanding of (and sympathy for) how your sense of reason can quite easily fly out the window in place of sheer primal instinct when you really think your arse is on the line...
You don't think the law and the courts take this into account? If it wasn't so serious it would have been "actual" bodily harm. If it was really self-defence it would have resulted in acquittal.

First of all if the choice is fight or flight, flight is better instead of taking risks and getting into a fight which could end up in you getting killed. OP made the mistake of sticking around and getting involved.

Secondly, I fail to see how you could be convicted of grievous bodily harm from just defending yourself. Grievous bodily harm, we are talking gunshot wound, knife wound or similar. Maximum prison sentence of 5 years. Not just battered and bruised, that would be "actual" bodily harm. Not even breaking bones counts as "grievous bodily harm".

If it is a knife wound the blade which caused the wound if it is more than 5 1/2 inches long it would count as "grievous", and blood must be lost, causing some sort of gaping wound and possibly damage to internal organs. We are talking serious harm and potential threat to loss of life.

I don't see how anyone can excuse this, even with a self defence plea. You obviously caused more damage to them then they did to you, you MUST have had specific intent to hurt, injure or maim in a malicious manner.
2
reply
i_hate_teeth
Badges: 9
Rep:
?
#37
Report 7 years ago
#37
(Original post by Stefan1991)
You don't think the law and the courts take this into account? If it wasn't so serious it would have been "actual" bodily harm. If it was really self-defence it would have resulted in acquittal.

First of all if the choice is fight or flight, flight is better instead of taking risks and getting into a fight which could end up in you getting killed. OP made the mistake of sticking around and getting involved.

Secondly, I fail to see how you could be convicted of grievous bodily harm from just defending yourself. Grievous bodily harm, we are talking gunshot wound, knife wound or similar. Maximum prison sentence of 5 years. Not just battered and bruised, that would be "actual" bodily harm. Not even breaking bones counts as "grievous bodily harm".

If it is a knife wound the blade which caused the wound if it is more than 5 1/2 inches long it would count as "grievous", and blood must be lost, causing some sort of gaping wound and possibly damage to internal organs. We are talking serious harm and potential threat to loss of life.

I don't see how anyone can excuse this, even with a self defence plea. You obviously caused more damage to them then they did to you, you MUST have had specific intent to hurt, injure or maim in a malicious manner.
I thought max sentence for GBH was life?
0
reply
bluepencil
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#38
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#38
@Stefan1991

Please read what I mentioned in an above post, there is a lot more to the law than what you've picked up watching 'The Bill' over the years.....

@i_hate_teeth

Yes that is true for a s.18 gbh charge with intent, a s.20 is 5 years and is without intent
0
reply
Pindar
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#39
Report 7 years ago
#39
(Original post by i_hate_teeth)
I thought max sentence for GBH was life?
You're right, ABH is 5 years.
0
reply
Michel Foucault
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#40
Report 7 years ago
#40
(Original post by Stefan1991)
You don't think the law and the courts take this into account? If it wasn't so serious it would have been "actual" bodily harm. If it was really self-defence it would have resulted in acquittal.

First of all if the choice is fight or flight, flight is better instead of taking risks and getting into a fight which could end up in you getting killed. OP made the mistake of sticking around and getting involved.

Secondly, I fail to see how you could be convicted of grievous bodily harm from just defending yourself. Grievous bodily harm, we are talking gunshot wound, knife wound or similar. Maximum prison sentence of 5 years. Not just battered and bruised, that would be "actual" bodily harm. Not even breaking bones counts as "grievous bodily harm".

If it is a knife wound the blade which caused the wound if it is more than 5 1/2 inches long it would count as "grievous", and blood must be lost, causing some sort of gaping wound and possibly damage to internal organs. We are talking serious harm and potential threat to loss of life.

I don't see how anyone can excuse this, even with a self defence plea. You obviously caused more damage to them then they did to you, you MUST have had specific intent to hurt, injure or maim in a malicious manner.
I know that the law and courts don't really take this into account, but I don't think that's necessarily right.

And you can't that shooting someone, stabbing someone or anything else for that matter is necessarily beyond the realms of self-defence. What if serious harm and a potential threat to the other person's life is what it takes to preserve your own? As far as the 'fight or flight' thing goes - you don't always have the choice. I certainly didn't.

I understand what you're trying to say and in theory I agree, but when you actually find yourself in a situation where sheer fear and adrenaline overpower everything else, for a lot of people everything you think about the line between self-defence and excessive force goes out the window, and it's not necessarily your fault.

Apologies for the thread drift OP!
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Have you registered to vote?

Yes! (490)
37.69%
No - but I will (100)
7.69%
No - I don't want to (88)
6.77%
No - I can't vote (<18, not in UK, etc) (622)
47.85%

Watched Threads

View All
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise