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    (Original post by Cicerao)
    If there are no clear right and wrong answers then how can a view be completely wrong? I think in your hurry to be an elitist git you overlooked that little problem.
    Where the view has no justification. The problem is that not everything is a matter of opinion: you can advance views without proper justification and get marks for it in a way that you can't in science. If your view isn't supported by the evidence its wrong, but A-level english/history/law are taught to give you credit anyway, whereas in science exams you don't get marks unless you set out your reasoning in full and that reasoning is right. On the other hand doing well in science GCSE and A-levels is mainly an exercise in realising what the examiner wants and ticking the boxses on his mark schemes. Other countries teach arts subjects on a more factual basis (i.e. you don't get credit for talking rubbish) and science on a more artsy basis (i.e. more emphasis on the quality of reasoning than on ticking boxes on the mark scheme). I think this makes sense and would probably narrow the gap between people choosing arts subjects and people doing science subjects. I did three arts subjects and one science subject at A-level and an arts subject at uni BTW, I'm not trying to be elitist.
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    A lot of people just find it boring. That is all there is to it.
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    (Original post by fuzzybear)
    Yeah I include maths, but it is by far the most popular compared to the other sciences. I hear economics can be very mathsy at certain universities and more essay-like in others, so not too sure on it.
    I always thought physics was popular you know. Erm i took maths and furthermaths and didnt want to do science. Reason being is I like a bit of freedom. I would of liked to do science at uni ( engineering and tht tho). In my sixth form science is the most oversubscribed department you know. Erm at unii i think it is because be sometimes fail to meet requirements etc..
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    Where the view has no justification. The problem is that not everything is a matter of opinion: you can advance views without proper justification and get marks for it in a way that you can't in science. If your view isn't supported by the evidence its wrong, but A-level english/history/law are taught to give you credit anyway, whereas in science exams you don't get marks unless you set out your reasoning in full and that reasoning is right. On the other hand doing well in science GCSE and A-levels is mainly an exercise in realising what the examiner wants and ticking the boxses on his mark schemes. Other countries teach arts subjects on a more factual basis (i.e. you don't get credit for talking rubbish) and science on a more artsy basis (i.e. more emphasis on the quality of reasoning than on ticking boxes on the mark scheme). I think this makes sense and would probably narrow the gap between people choosing arts subjects and people doing science subjects. I did three arts subjects and one science subject at A-level and an arts subject at uni BTW, I'm not trying to be elitist.
    That's not even true, though. You don't get a mark in, say, English A-Level for saying "This scene is scary." You have to use quotations and demonstrate how it's scary. Yes it's down to interpretation somewhat, but you don't just write anything and get a mark. Not to mention that there are "art" subjects which aren't as subjective - foreign languages, for example.

    Either way, I highly doubt the reason people take arts subjects is because you "can't be wrong."
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    (Original post by xfirekittyx)
    I kind of agree with this. I am blessed that I could have chose to do humanties/arts or sciences. I have a medical condition which gives me 'brain fog'. When I have brain fog, I can't do simple arithmetic but I can still construct something of an essay even if the meaning of my words is rather cryptic. Doing maths when I'm like that, literally hurts my head where as only when I'm *really* bad can I not read a book and remember the content, but on that note Biology is kind of easier for me in the respect that it's a lot of retaining information rather than in Physics which is mainly understanding concepts. On the other hand, when I'm feeling well I find learning a few theories a lot simpler than retaining masses of information :P
    I've never heard of that condition before but it must be frustrating as hell.
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    Has to be said, Science vastly undersells itself in the classroom. A subject that claims to answer all possible questions in the universe, with no limit asides from your own imagination... that spends most of its time fiddling with Bunsen burners and measuring acids. There's a huge amount of scope to teach interesting science (there's a lot of it after all), yet the curriculum has hardly changed in decades and the same dull topics are trodden upon again and again.

    Same applies to Mathematics, sadly. Only a very small amount of what's taught in a Maths classroom actually qualifies as proper Maths. Most of it is just mindless bean counting, formula memorising (which is about on par with learning dates by heart in History lessons in mental exertion levels) and other such rubbish.

    Maths is not about that. Maths is about solving puzzles, about thinking about things logically, and finding solutions in non-obvious ways. You could teach most of a GCSE in Maths without learning the number line at all (not that I'm suggesting you should!), and it'd have the potential to be far more interesting compared to the dry, unchallenging crap that most Maths teachers are forced to press upon their students.

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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    Where the view has no justification. The problem is that not everything is a matter of opinion: you can advance views without proper justification and get marks for it in a way that you can't in science. If your view isn't supported by the evidence its wrong, but A-level english/history/law are taught to give you credit anyway, whereas in science exams you don't get marks unless you set out your reasoning in full and that reasoning is right. On the other hand doing well in science GCSE and A-levels is mainly an exercise in realising what the examiner wants and ticking the boxses on his mark schemes. Other countries teach arts subjects on a more factual basis (i.e. you don't get credit for talking rubbish) and science on a more artsy basis (i.e. more emphasis on the quality of reasoning than on ticking boxes on the mark scheme). I think this makes sense and would probably narrow the gap between people choosing arts subjects and people doing science subjects. I did three arts subjects and one science subject at A-level and an arts subject at uni BTW, I'm not trying to be elitist.
    This is a problem at A level for arts subjects, I hated those Assessment Objectives.

    However, it is wrong to assume that people don't like being told they are objectively wrong so they choose arts.
    I did well in Maths A level and enjoyed it, to an extent, but I just had no real interest in it. I found the the 'always a right answer' boring, even though Maths was by far my easiest A level.

    Languages are considered arts but if you use wrong grammar, it's wrong, end of; no subjectivity.

    I just prefer the freedom of interpretation with arts in general. What exactly is teaching 'arts on a 'factual' basis? Learning a load of dates and facts about when a work was written and by whom? You could do that all day and never truly engage with a work.

    That said, it is true that sometimes bull**** is bull**** - analysis has to stem from evidence and, in A levels, they may be too keen to award points.

    Also to OP: I doubt most people could pick up a book on literary theory and just 'get' it.
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    I scraped an A* in GCSE Maths in the heady days of 2007 (1 mark less and I'd have got an A) by doing 2 hours of maths revision every day from January onwards, because I was predicted a D and it was HARD. I mean, I just couldn't get surds. That took at least 2 months. My mate who also got an A* sent pictures of himself to me while I was working eating cake and playing Halo. Conversely I got full marks in english language and literature GCSEs and read Northanger Abbey and Much Ado About Nothing maybe once each. People have different brains.
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    (Original post by Cicerao)
    That's not even true, though. You don't get a mark in, say, English A-Level for saying "This scene is scary." You have to use quotations and demonstrate how it's scary. Yes it's down to interpretation somewhat, but you don't just write anything and get a mark. Not to mention that there are "art" subjects which aren't as subjective - foreign languages, for example.

    Either way, I highly doubt the reason people take arts subjects is because you "can't be wrong."
    :shrug: its one of the reasons I took three arts subjects for A-level - I found it easy to get high marks by talking **** without understanding the material, whereas I couldn't do that in science. Obviously its all relative and everyone is different, you still need to know stuff to get an A whatever subject you do.
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    (Original post by fuzzybear)
    In A-levels and in university, arts and humanities are more popular than sciences/engineering. Theres no doubt that courses like physics, chemistry and engineering are undersubsribed at university compared to economics, history and english. What do you guys think is the reason for this?

    Is it down to a lack of understanding with sciences? or are they just not as interesting?


    Personally, I think people don't understand sciences, or at least not well enough which has led to the trend in the popularity of subjects/courses. Go into a library, almost anyone can pick up a book on economics or history and begin understanding what is being written. The same can't be said with the equivalent in physics or biology for example. I'm studying A2 physics, maths and chemistry, and even I struggle abit when reading introductory books on quantum mechanics and the universe - I certainly notice it required more effort of me than when I was reading an economics book on globalisation. I try and put myself in the mindset of the typical student and I can imagine I'd be like ''I can't be bothered with this''. You naturally become disinterested in something when you don't have a clue about it. I think if everyone understood both sciences and the arts and humanities equally, we'd see a near 50-50 split between students in both those areas. It also quite telling that whenever I hear about bad teachers, they tend to be from science departments.

    This raises another question, when it comes to deciding which A-level subjects to take or which course to do, is it a 'good' enough reason to turn away from certain subjects simply because you don't understand it well enough?
    I remember when I was picking my A-levels just over a year ago, I didn't like maths back then, but in hindsight I'm really glad that I took it, because A-level maths has been a real eye opener, now I actually understand the logic (some of it at least) rather than just mindlessly working away like a drone.
    Dude. Sciences are some of the most popular subjects, and the number of people taking them has been steadily increasing over the past few years. The subjects that are unpopular because people don't understand them and think they're too much work are modern foreign languages, which is ridiculous because they're the best subjects (:cool:) and they are so useful.
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    (Original post by Etoile)
    Dude. Sciences are some of the most popular subjects, and the number of people taking them has been steadily increasing over the past few years. The subjects that are unpopular because people don't understand them and think they're too much work are modern foreign languages, which is ridiculous because they're the best subjects (:cool:) and they are so useful.
    So true...the amount of times I've heard, "I'm English, why would I speak French....it's too much bother" is ridiculous...
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    (Original post by qwertyuiop1993)
    So true...the amount of times I've heard, "I'm English, why would I speak French....it's too much bother" is ridiculous...
    We have a joke,
    What do you call someone who speaks 4 or more languages? Multilingual or polyglot.
    Someone who speaks 3 languages? Trilingual.
    Someone who speaks 2 languages? Bilingual.
    Someone who speaks 1 language? English.


    I say joke...
    But anyway, very true. People just don't know what they're missing out on! :love:
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    Problem is that science prior to University is all about the facts. That is not what science is fundamentally about and not what scientists do in the real world.

    Once they have an answer they move on, you need scientists to teach science not people who have never done real science.

    Would you think it odd if someone taught you the piano if they could not play it or would you want a musician?
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    (Original post by Cicerao)
    If there are no clear right and wrong answers then how can a view be completely wrong? I think in your hurry to be an elitist git you overlooked that little problem.
    anyway what that person said is incorrect (IMO). with maths it's different, but the science taught in schools has a lot to do with the political viewpoints of white guys.
    it isn't as objective as people make out.
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    (Original post by fuzzybear)
    In A-levels and in university, arts and humanities are more popular than sciences/engineering. Theres no doubt that courses like physics, chemistry and engineering are undersubsribed at university compared to economics, history and english. What do you guys think is the reason for this?

    Is it down to a lack of understanding with sciences? or are they just not as interesting?


    Personally, I think people don't understand sciences, or at least not well enough which has led to the trend in the popularity of subjects/courses. Go into a library, almost anyone can pick up a book on economics or history and begin understanding what is being written. The same can't be said with the equivalent in physics or biology for example. I'm studying A2 physics, maths and chemistry, and even I struggle abit when reading introductory books on quantum mechanics and the universe - I certainly notice it required more effort of me than when I was reading an economics book on globalisation. I try and put myself in the mindset of the typical student and I can imagine I'd be like ''I can't be bothered with this''. You naturally become disinterested in something when you don't have a clue about it. I think if everyone understood both sciences and the arts and humanities equally, we'd see a near 50-50 split between students in both those areas. It also quite telling that whenever I hear about bad teachers, they tend to be from science departments.

    This raises another question, when it comes to deciding which A-level subjects to take or which course to do, is it a 'good' enough reason to turn away from certain subjects simply because you don't understand it well enough?
    I remember when I was picking my A-levels just over a year ago, I didn't like maths back then, but in hindsight I'm really glad that I took it, because A-level maths has been a real eye opener, now I actually understand the logic (some of it at least) rather than just mindlessly working away like a drone.
    Sounds like you could do with familiarising yourself with the humanities side of academia before you declare people are too stupid and caught up in their arty brains to comprehend maths. If you must know, I study Physics, Maths, History and Geography at A2, and what I've found is that most people have a clear distinction of where they lie of the academic spectrum, even if they don't know it, whether it be humanities or the sciences. Look around in your maths class. Are most of your classmates studying other science subjects? Probably. Go to an english class, are there many people there studying a science? Probably not. I, for example am the only student studying history in my physics class! But just because people feel more comfortable in the sciences or humanities (just as you are) that absolutely does not mean "the other people" are somehow intellectually inferior.
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    (Original post by Cicerao)
    If there are no clear right and wrong answers then how can a view be completely wrong? I think in your hurry to be an elitist git you overlooked that little problem.
    I presume he means that in these subjects you can all interpret a different meening, and even if you get the wrong idea totally, as long as it's clear how you derived at your version on events, then the answer is just as acceptable as anyone else's.
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    (Original post by mespannerhanz)
    not trying to show off or anything, but i got 400/400 in additional science gcse, so clearly I must have understood it relatively well. But I still couldn't stand the subject, so boring and uninteresting. ok they mean the same, but anyway, you get the point!
    You actually fukin merkd it, well done
    I see you're from Leicester, wht college?
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    (Original post by Etoile)
    Dude. Sciences are some of the most popular subjects, and the number of people taking them has been steadily increasing over the past few years. The subjects that are unpopular because people don't understand them and think they're too much work are modern foreign languages, which is ridiculous because they're the best subjects (:cool:) and they are so useful.
    But relative to the arts and humanities, science subjects clearly aren't as popular. The only exception is maths. I agree with what you said about mfl, although they seem neither a science, art or humanity subject. But thats just my opinion. What I said about a lack of undrstanding isn't just restricted to sciences, this 'theory' of mine can be applied to any subject. I should have included mfl in my original post.
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    I guy I know is studying Politics on an open learning course and he had a big stack of books he had to buy for it. There was one about the Philosophical side to politics, and it was fascinating. Very easy to understand, and it got me thinking. Would people have a far greater appetite for learning Chemistry or Physics if they were taught a basic level of philosophy. I wish I could get the chance to do Philosophy in an open learning course, but so many people had no idea what "Cogito ergo sum," "Je pence donc je suis" or "I think, therfore I am" meant it was unreal. Perhaps schools are dumbing down, and in my opinion, it's because people don't have the same appetite for learning.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    Has to be said, Science vastly undersells itself in the classroom. A subject that claims to answer all possible questions in the universe, with no limit asides from your own imagination... that spends most of its time fiddling with Bunsen burners and measuring acids. There's a huge amount of scope to teach interesting science (there's a lot of it after all), yet the curriculum has hardly changed in decades and the same dull topics are trodden upon again and again.

    Same applies to Mathematics, sadly. Only a very small amount of what's taught in a Maths classroom actually qualifies as proper Maths. Most of it is just mindless bean counting, formula memorising (which is about on par with learning dates by heart in History lessons in mental exertion levels) and other such rubbish.

    Maths is not about that. Maths is about solving puzzles, about thinking about things logically, and finding solutions in non-obvious ways. You could teach most of a GCSE in Maths without learning the number line at all (not that I'm suggesting you should!), and it'd have the potential to be far more interesting compared to the dry, unchallenging crap that most Maths teachers are forced to press upon their students.

    Repped, totally agree with that. Practicals are such a drag on everything. Maths only starts to get remotely interesting in Alevel and even that largely depends on having a decent enthusatic teacher .
 
 
 

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