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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    Say that to the Brit expats in Spain. F***ing hypocrite.
    I would say exactly that to the Brit expats in Spain.

    This is part of the problem - you actually get angry when people ask you to integrate, who the hell do you think you are?
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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    You're full of crap. HOW DARE YOU think you can judge a community of over 2 MILLION just because you have a ''few'' British Indian friends.

    I'm a British Indian man, and for your information:

    - Some of the women in my extended family have married white and black men or women, no one gives a crap.
    - No one has ever been hit, period.
    - My mother is not hysterical, and I and my brother regularly have to do chores, the same as my sister.
    - Whenever the men or women in my family are looking to get married, we look for BRITISH INDIANS, NOT PEOPLE FROM INDIA.

    You're not British Indian and you know NOTHING about our community, so shut your mouth and mind your own f***ing business. Ignorant Douchebag.
    I wanted to thumb this up, but you need to calm the **** down first.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I have a few Indian friends (actually they're British, but for the sake of clarity, work with me here).

    I just cannot believe half of the stuff I hear a lot of the time:
    - Not allowed to marry white 'British' men
    - Normal for them to get hit if they've done badly at school
    - Hysterical mother, and as they're girls, being forced to do a lot of work at home whereas their brothers sit around doing **** all
    - Getting sent back to India once a year to meet guys who they can potentially marry
    - The list goes on

    At first I used to think 'fair enough'. A lot of the time when one of them was complaining about their family, another would just say 'well, you're Indian, you just have to take it'.

    I'm starting to not agree with this. I don't care what the Asian way of doing things is.

    In a British context, British norms should be applied. And British norms dictate that you marry who you want and you have the right to dispute being hit by your family.

    I dunno guys. I just don't like the idea that parents would bring their kids up in the UK, but then prevent them from living as people from the UK would.

    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    I have a few white friends (actually they're British, but for the sake of clarity, work with me here).

    I just cannot believe half of the stuff I see a lot of the time:
    - Always drinking themselves stupid and puking/urinating on the pavement.
    - Normal for them to be proud that they've done badly at school
    - Sleeping with anyone and spreading STD's
    - Racist parents and grandparents, and thinking it's acceptable and cool to be so themselves.
    - Talk about how they want to emigrate to US, Australia and Canada, while whining about immigrants themselves.
    - The list goes on

    At first I used to think 'fair enough'. A lot of the time when one of them was complaining, another would just say 'well, we're white, that's just the way we are'.

    I'm starting to not agree with this. I don't care what the white way of doing things is.....

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    See what I did there. It's easy to stereotype others. If you want to accept being stereotyped that's up to you, but I have self-respect and I wont stand for it. Just because your Indian parents are like that, doesn't mean all Indian parents are like that.
    Um...... I don't have a problem with either stereotype. You two pretty much nailed it.
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    (Original post by Ferdowsi)
    I would say exactly that to the Brit expats in Spain.

    This is part of the problem - you actually get angry when people ask you to integrate, who the hell do you think you are?
    I was born here and I'm integrated just fine. Perhaps you'd like to explain to me how I'm not integrated. Perhaps you'd like to explain how my Indian parents who have lived in this country longer than you've been breathing, have never taken a penny in benefits, have told me and my two siblings several times we're not allowed to take jobseekers allowance, and must find work, and have paid more tax than any of the lazy scoungers out there (most of whom happen to be white).

    I want you to explain how they are not integrated. Who do you think you are to judge us? What the have you ever done for this country that makes you more deserving to live here than me?

    Go on, explain.
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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    I was born here and I'm integrated just fine. Perhaps you'd like to explain to me how I'm not integrated. Perhaps you'd like to explain how my Indian parents who have lived in this country longer than you've been breathing, have never taken a penny in benefits, have told me and my two siblings several times we're not allowed to take jobseekers allowance, and must find work, and have paid more tax than any of the lazy f***king scoungers out there (most of whom happen to be white).

    I want you to explain how they are not integrated. Who the f**k do you think you are to judge us? What the f**k have you ever done for this country that makes you more deserving to live here than me?

    Go on, f**king explain.
    he said that he finds people who move to countries with no intention or integrating are pathetic. if you don't fall into that category, how was he judging you?
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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    I was born here and I'm integrated just fine. Perhaps you'd like to explain to me how I'm not integrated. Perhaps you'd like to explain how my Indian parents who have lived in this country longer than you've been breathing, have never taken a penny in benefits, have told me and my two siblings several times we're not allowed to take jobseekers allowance, and must find work, and have paid more tax than any of the lazy f***king scoungers out there (most of whom happen to be white).

    I want you to explain how they are not integrated. Who the f**k do you think you are to judge us? What the f**k have you ever done for this country that makes you more deserving to live here than me?

    Go on, f**king explain.
    Well firstly I am of an Iranian background. Secondly, I never even quoted you and said you have not integrated - I was referring the the behaviour the OP mentioned - which is absolutely pathetic. Thirdly, calm down. Fourthly, obviously the majority of benefit claiments are White British - given that white people constitute 90% of the population (and 98% in Scotland where I live) - if you look at statistics white British people actually have the lowest unemployment rate out of any ethnic group.
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    Hmm interesting one, I am a cultural imperialist, I believe in a culture based upon freedom, autonomy and rationality. I believe in a equality of opportunity based upon common humanity and despise intolerance based on grounds of race, gender or sexuality and some religion. I do not say *all* religion because unfortunately certain elements are fundamentally opposed to my beliefs. they are intolerant and bigoted because their gods told them to be.

    in my view although people may be "entitled" to hold different views, this does not make all views equal. I have the fundamental yardstick of the principles above. If Indian culture offends those measures, i think indian culture is wrong, in the same way I view deep-american south anti-gay, anti-abortion bible-bashing wrong.

    I know to preach tolerance and freedom yet deride other belief systems appears to be oxymoronical. However there is an argument that if my belief is correct (and i believe it is by the measurement of a utilitarian calculus), it should defend itself against hostile beleifs which would undo its good work if they prevailed.

    a good example is the ECtHRS dicta when addressing the banning of political parties in Germany. They said that the communist party could be banned as it was one of their central tenants to abolish representative democracy in pointblank violation of the German Basic Law. Democracy could defend itself even if by doing so it was acting slightly undemocratically.

    I believe the pursuit of rationality and freedom is the same. it can deride and attack fundamentally hostile ideologies if those ideologies result in a greater restriction of freedom than the act of marginalizing them
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    Are you surprised.

    We have so much rubbish about accepting other people's culture and being multicultural that most people would probably think they're insulting an Indian if they question their home life.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    much rubbish about accepting other people's culture and being multicultural that most people would probably think they're insulting an Indian if they question their home life.
    As if the initial post wasn't stupid enough with generalisations, we have another equally stupid one above :facepalm:
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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    See what I did there. It's easy to stereotype others. If you want to accept being stereotyped that's up to you, but I have self-respect and I wont stand for it. Just because your Indian parents are like that, doesn't mean all Indian parents are like that.
    If you're willing to respond calmly to what I'm about to say, read on. If you're just going to throw another fit of rage, don't bother.


    I don't think it's okay to stereotype at all, I simply do not think all this business of "stereotyping" is relevant to this particular discussion. The OP's complaint is with those people making an "EXCUSE" (hence the thread title) for actions that are unkind or harmful or abusive because of their cultural background. Whatever individual culture it may be is immaterial.

    Therefore the essence of the problem here is cultural relativism, people believing that actions are justified solely because they perceive them to be a part of a culture. This attitude that, "'well, you're [insert demographic here], you just have to take it" is quite harmful to society. But as I was saying, there is very little that can be done about it.
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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    You're full of crap. HOW DARE YOU think you can judge a community of over 2 MILLION just because you have a ''few'' British Indian friends.

    I'm a British Indian man, and for your information:

    - Some of the women in my extended family have married white and black men or women, no one gives a crap.
    - No one has ever been hit, period.
    - My mother is not hysterical, and I and my brother regularly have to do chores, the same as my sister.
    - Whenever the men or women in my family are looking to get married, we look for BRITISH INDIANS, NOT PEOPLE FROM INDIA.

    You're not British Indian and you know NOTHING about our community, so shut your mouth and mind your own f***ing business. Ignorant Douchebag.
    Pretty sure they were talking about these particular friends of hers and their experiences, and how they don't agree with them. I didn't see a point where they stated they think all Indian British people experience this same thing. Chill.
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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    Alright, you got me. I admit it, all us Indian people are the same. It's hard to admit but it really is true.
    Wow, I can't believe he actually got you to admit that.
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    (Original post by Ferdowsi)
    Well firstly I am of an Iranian background. Secondly, I never even quoted you and said you have not integrated - I was referring the the behaviour the OP mentioned - which is absolutely pathetic. Thirdly, calm down. Fourthly, obviously the majority of benefit claiments are White British - given that white people constitute 90% of the population (and 98% in Scotland where I live) - if you look at statistics white British people actually have the lowest unemployment rate out of any ethnic group.
    Fair enough. A bit of an overreaction on my part. I just don't like the idea of people criticising my family, by suggesting they don't integrate, especially when they've worked hard their whole lives and have never criticised the country they live in, unlike some people that were actually born here.

    And by the way, having diverse communities is not a bad thing, as long as they're inclusive. Nowadays, every time I go to a wedding in my community, I see white, black and even oriental people there, getting involved and having a good time, and I think that's a great thing.
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    (Original post by ckingalt)
    Wow, I can't believe he actually got you to admit that.
    WTF! Nice try!
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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    WTF! Nice try!
    Sorry, I'm not a troll, but I do have a since of humor. You were so worked up I could no resist. Peace.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Pretty sure they were talking about these particular friends of hers and their experiences, and how they don't agree with them. I didn't see a point where they stated they think all Indian British people experience this same thing. Chill.
    I have a few Indian friends (actually they're British, but for the sake of clarity, work with me here).

    I just cannot believe half of the stuff I hear a lot of the time:
    - Not allowed to marry white 'British' men
    - Normal for them to get hit if they've done badly at school
    - Hysterical mother, and as they're girls, being forced to do a lot of work at home whereas their brothers sit around doing **** all
    - Getting sent back to India once a year to meet guys who they can potentially marry
    - The list goes on

    At first I used to think 'fair enough'. A lot of the time when one of them was complaining about their family, another would just say 'well, you're Indian, you just have to take it'.

    I'm starting to not agree with this. I don't care what the Asian way of doing things is.

    In a British context, British norms should be applied. And British norms dictate that you marry who you want and you have the right to dispute being hit by your family.

    I dunno guys. I just don't like the idea that parents would bring their kids up in the UK, but then prevent them from living as people from the UK would.
    I disagree, seems pretty generalising to me. Take another look at the thread title.
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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    I was born here and I'm integrated just fine. Perhaps you'd like to explain to me how I'm not integrated. Perhaps you'd like to explain how my Indian parents who have lived in this country longer than you've been breathing, have never taken a penny in benefits, have told me and my two siblings several times we're not allowed to take jobseekers allowance, and must find work, and have paid more tax than any of the lazy scoungers out there (most of whom happen to be white).

    I want you to explain how they are not integrated. Who do you think you are to judge us? What the have you ever done for this country that makes you more deserving to live here than me?

    Go on, explain.
    Most sane people don't have an issue with British people with immigrant ancestors - if we did, I'd have to throw myself out for being related to the Normans. And everyone has issues with lazy white scroungers - we call them Chavs and ignore them.

    (Also, the countryside is full of random bigotry. I live in a small rural village, and some old man who had ancestors in the same house since 1300 disapproved of me moving from another village three miles away. :lolwut: That's nothing to proper racism, but it shows how much people like complaining ).

    I think the OP's point was that Britain has certain values, and if someone is being abused (not a disciplinary smack, but being properly and unfairly hit or taken advantage of), and they want to get away, we should be able to help them, and it shouldn't be hidden under the umbrella of 'culture'.

    She was generalising with the 'Asian' bit, though.

    Edit: Sorry about the essay, I'm procrastinating, so I get carried away...
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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    I disagree, seems pretty generalising to me. Take another look at the thread title.
    No.
    "well, you're Indian, you have to take it" was a quote from their Indian friend. They didn't suggest that all Indians feel the same, only what this particular person said about it.
    "I don't care what the Asian way of doing things is" - Still talking about her specific friends after being TOLD this.
    "I dunno guys. I just don't like the idea that parents would bring their kids up in the UK, but then prevent them from living as people from the UK would" - AGAIN, this is about the people that DO this, relating to this person's friends.
    They haven't suggested that all Indians are the same... Just the few friends that they have all having this similar experience, and how they disagree with it.

    The thread title is pretty much a quote from her friend. This whole thing is about an individual experience they have, and doesn't ever say "All Indians do this" and "all indians are disgraceful", "why do all Indians not want to integrate?"
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    I tend to use that excuse as well. 'get over it, we asian's at the end of the day.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    No.
    "well, you're Indian, you have to take it" was a quote from their Indian friend. They didn't suggest that all Indians feel the same, only what this particular person said about it.
    "I don't care what the Asian way of doing things is" - Still talking about her specific friends after being TOLD this.
    "I dunno guys. I just don't like the idea that parents would bring their kids up in the UK, but then prevent them from living as people from the UK would" - AGAIN, this is about the people that DO this, relating to this person's friends.
    They haven't suggested that all Indians are the same... Just the few friends that they have all having this similar experience, and how they disagree with it.

    The thread title is pretty much a quote from her friend. This whole thing is about an individual experience they have, and doesn't ever say "All Indians do this" and "all indians are disgraceful", "why do all Indians not want to integrate?"
    THANK YOU! *applauds* If people actually read the post rather glazing over it, seeing the word "Asian" in a post with a negative tone, and assuming that the nasty racists are out to get them again. At which point the right thing to do clearly is to overreact :rolleyes:
 
 
 
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